hmk17 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Dreadknights are looking to be strong picks against daemons then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Doesn't the Blessing say it gives a 2+ save vs psychic powers and force weapons? Isn't Dark Excommunication a psychic power? Except as Vindicatus pointed out, it is not a damage dealing power. You don't get invuln saves against powers that don't cause damage. Just re-read it; you are right. Disregard my last. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dylan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I faced a mono khorne list myself yesterday with him spamming the crap out of BotBG. My solution was to gun down his fast moving big things and then simply out run his Bloodcrushers and Bloodletters. Assault Cannon/ TLAutoCannon w/ psyammo dreads where just nasty, every turn I was gunning down one to two of this daemon princes or bloodthirsters. However khorne just crushes us in cc now. I had a Strike Squad in cover, full ten man, just get eaten by bloodletters despite them going at I1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yowsaman Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 aint blessing of the blood god only for certain khorne units? i kinda remember that not all of them can take it. or am i mistaken? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofblood Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 aint blessing of the blood god only for certain khorne units? i kinda remember that not all of them can take it. or am i mistaken? You are correct. The only units that can get the Blessing are Bloodthirsters, Heralds of Khorne, Daemon Princes, and Flesh Hounds. If someone is counting it on their Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers they are cheating. Having a Herald with it does not confer it to the squad he is with either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 aint blessing of the blood god only for certain khorne units? i kinda remember that not all of them can take it. or am i mistaken? You are correct. The only units that can get the Blessing are Bloodthirsters, Heralds of Khorne, Daemon Princes, and Flesh Hounds. If someone is counting it on their Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers they are cheating. Having a Herald with it does not confer it to the squad he is with either. Yep. The problem is that once they in CC with you, you're not getting out. All his DPs had wings, his Flesh Hounds charge as Beasts, BTs fly, Herald on a Chariot..etc. Now think of this, but with 3 DPs, 1 Herald, a BT and 2 big packs of Hounds. Shoot at one and get tied up by another for the rest of the game. Ce la vie Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 So you all know what you need when fighting Daemons of the Khorne type? Crowe and just tarpit something with him for as long as possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yowsaman Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 aint blessing of the blood god only for certain khorne units? i kinda remember that not all of them can take it. or am i mistaken? You are correct. The only units that can get the Blessing are Bloodthirsters, Heralds of Khorne, Daemon Princes, and Flesh Hounds. If someone is counting it on their Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers they are cheating. Having a Herald with it does not confer it to the squad he is with either. Yep. The problem is that once they in CC with you, you're not getting out. All his DPs had wings, his Flesh Hounds charge as Beasts, BTs fly, Herald on a Chariot..etc. Now think of this, but with 3 DPs, 1 Herald, a BT and 2 big packs of Hounds. Shoot at one and get tied up by another for the rest of the game. Ce la vie ok thanks. well it's not like you are going to face that kind off list any battle (shame you did hero) or tournament..... i hope :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoC Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Well know you know why it took so many Grey Knights to get rid of Angron last time. :tu: Sucky morty get owned hard, i wonder if he'll go to khorne on his knees to beg for collar of khorne after humiliation done by Draigo :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Honestly, it sounds like that was a list specifically designed to take you out. You could do the same! HQ: twin librarians with warding staves and Dark Excommunication (expensive, but worth it) Elite: Paladins or such (I heard you say you wanted 5-10 in each battle) Elite: Purifiers Troops: Terminators FA: Storm Ravens- added transport and mobility could allow you to fly away from daemons and such (maybe, haven't tested it yet) Heavy: DREADKNIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Step 1: Maximize DE to cancel his BotBG and take away helblades in the process. Step 2: buff harder units with librarians Step 3: Proceed to stomp face! YOU CAN ALSO PULL UNITS AWAY FROM THE DPs AND GD BY USING THE LIBRARIANS SUMMONING It wouldn't be hard to destroy him with 5 units casting dark excomunication, charging daemons with prefered enemy S5-6, daemonbaning, and making them strike at I1!! (All of this is speculation though) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Nice batreps Hero and thanks for sharing. No offense but Im really glad daemons can still open up a can on GKs even if it takes some tailoring. Khorne should be nearly immune to psychic powers/force weapons. Love it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Figured I'd clear up all the rule talk. Blessings states and I quote "The Daemon has a 2+ invulnerable save against wounds caused by psychic powers and force weapons." The Nemesis Force Weapons entry states and I quote, "All nemesis weapons are force weapons," They indeed get a 2++ against all pure GK CC attacks, Crowe excluded. The only models with access to Blessings are Blood thirsters, heralds, daemon princes, and hounds. Daemonbane forces only a single test for "one or more unsaved wounds" caused by nemesis force weapons. So, only an ~8% chance of a Blood Thirster dieing once you do finally get that wound though. That is an extremely tough list for you to face. Though it lends weight to my idea that warp quake won't be as devastating as it originally appears. Only going to really hurt them in %50 of games, and can be mitigated by good generalship. A dreadknigth or two would have been worth their weight in gold in that game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 hmm... it specifically says wounds. Warp Rift... could be an interesting choice there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkbd94 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 nemesis force weapon are consider force weapon but force weapon ruling is : they have the same effect as a power weapon, but also confer to the weilder 1 additional psychic power, used in CC, causing instant death. you don't need to use the effect of force weapon (so no leadership test for the psychic power) and they are power weapon so no 2+ from BotBG so dunno at this point till a FAQ< nvm. : didn't saw that the blessing count force weapon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 hmm... it specifically says wounds. Warp Rift... could be an interesting choice there. You thought I was lying? :ph34r: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 nemesis force weapon are consider force weapon but force weapon ruling is : they have the same effect as a power weapon, but also confer to the weilder 1 additional psychic power, used in CC, causing instant death. you don't need to use the effect of force weapon (so no leadership test for the psychic power) and they are power weapon so no 2+ from BotBG so dunno at this point till a FAQ< nvm. : didn't saw that the blessing count force weapon Why would anyone try and cause instant death against an army that is immune to it? Let's just assume that they don't think we're all idiots and that a force weapon is a force weapon all the time otherwise that would make BotBG completely useless. 'I know I'll try and inflict ID where it won't do anything and you get a 2++ for me doing it'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2701931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofblood Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 nemesis force weapon are consider force weapon but force weapon ruling is : they have the same effect as a power weapon, but also confer to the weilder 1 additional psychic power, used in CC, causing instant death. you don't need to use the effect of force weapon (so no leadership test for the psychic power) and they are power weapon so no 2+ from BotBG so dunno at this point till a FAQ< nvm. : didn't saw that the blessing count force weapon Why would anyone try and cause instant death against an army that is immune to it? Let's just assume that they don't think we're all idiots and that a force weapon is a force weapon all the time otherwise that would make BotBG completely useless. 'I know I'll try and inflict ID where it won't do anything and you get a 2++ for me doing it'. If I recall correctly the Daemonbane rule removes Daemons Eternal Warrior rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 So obviously the Libby is now a much more attractive option. At least the exco is only 5pts! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 So obviously the Libby is now a much more attractive option. At least the exco is only 5pts! Dark Excommunication is quite terrible. It only effects 1 unit at a game, the Libby has to be base to base for it to work, and you have to buy it which means you have to know you're playing Daemons, oh and you have to take a Libby or Dreadknight when their options are free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 nemesis force weapon are consider force weapon but force weapon ruling is : they have the same effect as a power weapon, but also confer to the weilder 1 additional psychic power, used in CC, causing instant death. you don't need to use the effect of force weapon (so no leadership test for the psychic power) and they are power weapon so no 2+ from BotBG so dunno at this point till a FAQ< nvm. : didn't saw that the blessing count force weapon Why would anyone try and cause instant death against an army that is immune to it? Let's just assume that they don't think we're all idiots and that a force weapon is a force weapon all the time otherwise that would make BotBG completely useless. 'I know I'll try and inflict ID where it won't do anything and you get a 2++ for me doing it'. If I recall correctly the Daemonbane rule removes Daemons Eternal Warrior rule. Recall from where. In no place but the old rumor mill did it state that it removes Eternal Warrior. What Deamon bane does do is for a leader ship for one or more wounds from NFWs, if that leadership is failed, then the model is removed from the game. You cannot force weapon an eternal warrior, period. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofblood Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 nemesis force weapon are consider force weapon but force weapon ruling is : they have the same effect as a power weapon, but also confer to the weilder 1 additional psychic power, used in CC, causing instant death. you don't need to use the effect of force weapon (so no leadership test for the psychic power) and they are power weapon so no 2+ from BotBG so dunno at this point till a FAQ< nvm. : didn't saw that the blessing count force weapon Why would anyone try and cause instant death against an army that is immune to it? Let's just assume that they don't think we're all idiots and that a force weapon is a force weapon all the time otherwise that would make BotBG completely useless. 'I know I'll try and inflict ID where it won't do anything and you get a 2++ for me doing it'. If I recall correctly the Daemonbane rule removes Daemons Eternal Warrior rule. Recall from where. In no place but the old rumor mill did it state that it removes Eternal Warrior. What Deamon bane does do is for a leader ship for one or more wounds from NFWs, if that leadership is failed, then the model is removed from the game. You cannot force weapon an eternal warrior, period. Well if it is stated as "the model is removed from play" instead of "causes instant death" if the test is failed by whatever unit. Then techinically speaking yes NFWs are force weapons that ignore Eternal Warrior similar to the 3rd Edition force weapon in C:DH, just through a different manner then a psychic test. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Well if it is stated as "the model is removed from play" instead of "causes instant death" if the test is failed by whatever unit. Then techinically speaking yes NFWs are force weapons that ignore Eternal Warrior similar to the 3rd Edition force weapon in C:DH, just through a different manner then a psychic test. And of course they knew this was going to be in Codex: Grey Knights when they wrote Codex: Chaos Daemons. Yes it is similar to but nowhere near as easy. The point is that NWFs are still force weapons even when inactive. Daemon Bane doesn't require activation so why activate, still not get past EW and give away a 2++? It's not much of a gift if it is completely useless and easy to bypass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It's better to just say that NFWs cause a kind of Instability in Daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Daemonbane doesn't remove EW, it simply ignores it because it does not cause instant death, it removes the model from play as per the wording of the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Daemonbane doesn't remove EW, it simply ignores it because it does not cause instant death, it removes the model from play as per the wording of the rules. Thank you. Deamonbane does not cause instant death in eternal warriors, it removes a wounded daemon or psyker which fails a resulting leadership from play. There is a very big difference between the two rule wise. See my above post where I quoted the specific rules in question. An inactive force weapon is still a force weapon, which means blessings grants a 2++. Yes blessings makes certain Khorne daemons very powerful against GK in the same way that Warp Quake makes GKs very powerful against Daemons. Do we really need to keep debating this topic? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2702273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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