Blood Claws

[Sun Reaver]

Hey,

 

After reading the Ragnar Blackmane series, I have started to have thoughts on running a fluffy Space Wolf army led by him. From reading his rules, I noticed Ragnar is best used with in tandem with Blood Claws.

 

What do you guys think? Are Blood Claws any good at all? Can they be competitive? Or will I get tabled by most opponents?

 

I want the games to be fun, but in all honesty, no one likes to loose.

 

 

 

Sun Reaver

[Grey Mage]

I wouldnt say hes best used in tandem with bloodclaws at all- Id say those extra +2 attacks are already pretty good....

 

Now, Wolf Gaurd with up to 6 attacks each on the charge you say? Oh my....

 

Now, that doesnt mean that Bloodclaws arent useful... but they pair up best, in my experiance, with a wolf priest. 15ish in a Crusader is awesomely good at breaking enemy lines, while 10 skyclaws with a priest is a good way to tip the scales in any assault.

 

Swiftclaws I tend to run in a small pack to protect a biker-rune-priest, or a WGBL on a bike. They do well, and littlbitz has had great experiances with them Im told.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

Ragnar's abilities are best applied in other places, like Grey Mage said. I'd put him into a unit of wolf guard terminators with wolf claws (single ones). They aren't too expensive, but on the charge they chuck out up to 6 S5 attacks with re-rollable hits or misses, meaning that they can wound just about anyting excep for T9 creatures (I'm not sure there are any, currently. I forget what tougness night bringers and that other necron boogeyman are). And they're I5 as well, so they strike before other marines and at the same time as eldar (although against grey knights they're probably still screwed). I've been wanting to do that for a long time, but somehow never got round to it.

 

Blood claws themselves I'm not a big fan of because they need a wolf priest and therefore there won't be many left if you want them in a rhino, so you have to buy a crusader and then things just get too expensive too quickly. They also aren't anywhere near as flexible as grey hunters, so most people consider them to be overpriced compared to grey hunters.

 

That said, when they're on bikes they are fabulous because they're priced much better than when on foot. They're cheaper than other chapter's bikers and much, much better in combat. Add to that being able to put a WG into that unit and they're quite fabulous, although again most people don't even give them a sidelong glance and go straight to TWC, which is a mistake I think (although one could say much the same to my reservations about blood claws on foot, I guess).

 

Skyclaws... I guess they could work, I haven't tried them yet, but I'm itching to do so. When I buy my next lot of models (whenever that is...) I think there will definitely be 10 of them in there somewhere because I can see them fitting into my army very well, but as of yet I don't have anything much to say about them other than that they look better (to me) than most people give them credit for.

[Goreclaw]

The biggest problem with bloodclaws seems to be their ws and bs. With both 3 means they will get hit easier. I have found that they work great when dealing a crushing blow to a already weakened infantry. I use skyclaws and i won't leave them out of my list just because i like to keep my opponent on his toes. They can do terrible things, but they will have terrible losses if concentrated. In short they are cannonfodder with a promise of destruction.

[littlbitz]

I agree with most of what has already been said. The main problem with the LRC and 15 BloodClaws led by a WP list is that it is an all or nothing affair. If that LRC is stopped early, you get stuck with your main assault unit foot-slogging it into the fight, but if they hit...

I do have a crazy list idea that has 3 units like above all packed into an 1850 list, but that is for another post.

 

I do run BloodClaws in my lists, mainly 2 SwiftClaw biker packs and a single unit in a Rhino.

 

The unit currently is as follows: 7 BloodClaws, one has a Flamer, and one has a Power Weapon. They are led by a Wolfguard Pack Leader with a Stormbolter and a Power Fist. Mounted in a Rhino.

 

A simple little pack, that can perform a multitude of tasks. Could a GH pack do it better? Maybe, is the only real answer I can give. I know what the math-hammer says, but in my gaming experience I can honestly say that they are a staple in my force.

 

I am trying to find a way to free up 100 points to try out a Wolf Priest with them, I think that would really round out the pack nicely and still keep the points cost reasonable.

 

To lead them with Ragnar? I've seen it done, but I really think Ragnar is best served with a unit of GH or a WG pack. As GM said a WG pack of Ten with no upgrades can dish out a potential 60 Attacks on the charge! All for 180 points. Plus what Ragnar can do. Keep the WG cheap and you are good to go. Still an expensive unit, and will suffer from the same problem as the WP with BloodClaws unit above but fun if it works.

 

Something else to consider, since BloodClaws seem to prompt discussion of Assault.

The true key to an assault is not to hit your target and utterly destroy it. If you do this, you will often find yourself out in the open just waiting to be shot up by your opponents army.

What you want to do is win by just enough that the unit stays in combat, and then you finish it off in your opponents turn.

Then you are free to move on to your next target.

A tricky thing to do, but I find the balance of my BloodClaws pack described above accomplishes this quite well, which may be part of the reason why I like it so much.

 

Target selection is also important, realize that while on the surface it seems that BC are assault troops, they are still a troops selection and will fall to the blade of any of the more dedicated assault units. What the BloodClaws really do is assault better than other peoples troop choices. They really excel at taking out things like Devastator Squads, Tactical Squads ect.

Large Terminator squads will simply wipe the floor with them (Well there was this one time...)

 

I do hope all of my rambling has formed some sort of understandable thought and helps a little.

[Grey Mage]

No, I agree completely- staying in assault is often for the best during your opponents turn, so you can keep the initiative without taking the casualties.

 

Wich is why I dont run a Wolf Gaurd in my bloodclaws, and also why in smaller games I have no problem fielding a pack of 11-12 youngsters- my opponent will have fewer units, and likely a number of smaller ones... so it doesnt hurt to have that extra 60pts for other things- like upgrades to my Grey Hunters or most of a Typhoon.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Target selection is also important, realize that while on the surface it seems that BC are assault troops, they are still a troops selection and will fall to the blade of any of the more dedicated assault units. What the BloodClaws really do is assault better than other peoples troop choices. They really excel at taking out things like Devastator Squads, Tactical Squads ect.

Large Terminator squads will simply wipe the floor with them (Well there was this one time...)

 

Claws better than Crusaders? *chuckles*

 

Anyway, I do have to agree with you on 'oils aint oils' call.

 

There are definite rankings in Assault units, and Crusaders, Claws and Greys are solid, but not premium.

 

What these solid choices give you is the ability to take away a shooty units strength, whilst playing to your choppy units strengths. +1 for you, -1 for him, for a gain of 2 to you.

 

When you have a list that combines shooty support to a choppy core, whilst that can be effective, when the choppy core gets locked into a combat, the support needs to turn its support elsewhere - you cannot fire in the mêlée.

But when you have choppy support and a choppy core, you can always send the support in if the problem is too big for the core.

 

eg: Assaulting with Tacticals is not a great help to the Hammernators. Assaulting with Claws is a great help to the TWC or WG.

 

Bullying the poor choices, in combat, with your solid choices really is a great way to win the game. It also increases the amount of ground your Claws cover, assault 6" + consolidate d6", which then allows for another assault, etc.