Chengar Qordath Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 When I first noticed that you could buy psybolts for the Crusader (and for a really low point cost) it seemed like one of the most obvious upgrades ever; who wouldn't want to boost up almost every weapon on the vehicle? However, a few seconds later, I realized the hidden downside; if the hurricane bolters go up to strength 5, then they're no longer defensive weapons, which is one of the best thing they have going for them. Not being able to move 6" and fire everything is a definite loss. So, with that in mind, are psybolts still worth taking on the Crusader? Does the added strength offset the loss of mobile firepower? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Not worth it IMO, especially if you are using it to deliver things where you'd want to go the full distance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangamarine Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 If you are always going the full distance they would be worth it, how ever, if you intend on only moving up to 6" per turn, it is not worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I you are always going the full distance they would be worth it, how ever, if you intend on only moving up to " per turn, it is not worth it. I actually just realized that Psybolts work on Assault Cannons. Might be worth it then for that very sexy very heavy Assault Cannon.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 I you are always going the full distance they would be worth it, how ever, if you intend on only moving up to " per turn, it is not worth it. I actually just realized that Psybolts work on Assault Cannons. Might be worth it then for that very sexy very heavy Assault Cannon.... Indeed; that's why I was so eager to get them at first; bumping up the hurricane bolters and the assault cannon at the same time sounds very tempting. The Rifleman Dread is also going to be even more popular than usual for GKs, since psybolts also boost up autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I had the exact same thought process, except in between "Oh wow, that's awesome" and "Oh wait, there's a drawback" I started a game of 40k. :P Luckily, everything worked out. The Crusader moves 12" turn 1 and popped smoke, then 12" again turn 2 and deposited the GKTs inside, while gunning down some IG with a Hurricane Bolter. The following 2 turns afterward, it merely pivoted in place and fired all its weapons at the side armour of Chimerae my opponent had advanced as counter-punch to my assault. In that sense, the increased Str all-'round didn't hurt the first two turns, and then really helped the second two turns. On the other hand, because I was merely swiveling in place, the veterans that came from the second Chimera simply walked over, planted 10 meltabombs, and utterly annihilated my precious tank. The point is, it's not all good and it's not all bad. Unless you definitely plan to move around at 6" per turn, the psybolt ammo is still well worth considering, though definitely not a must-have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDS Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Moving 6" in a Land Raider Cursader with pybolt ammunition and power of the machin spirit, could you not fire the assault cannon with now S7 at BS3 and then use machine spirit to fire the twin linked bolters at BS5. They are twin linked after all? Seem like it would be a good trade off for +1S for 5 points. Also, before getting close to a disembarked enemy, when would you even normally fire the TL Bolter mounts? So, what do you lose? BDS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Moving 6" in a Land Raider Cursader with pybolt ammunition and power of the machin spirit, could you not fire the assault cannon with now S7 at BS3 and then use machine spirit to fire the twin linked bolters at BS5. They are twin linked after all? Seem like it would be a good trade off for +1S for 5 points. Also, before getting close to a disembarked enemy, when would you even normally fire the TL Bolter mounts? So, what do you lose? BDS It doesn't have twin linked bolters, it has two sponsons of hurricane bolters. Although yes each 'hurricane' bolter is fired as three twin linked bolters. Unless i've got the wrong end of the stick and you're not infact saying both hurricanes fire with a single profile... ~Gil :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDS Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Moving 6" in a Land Raider Cursader with pybolt ammunition and power of the machin spirit, could you not fire the assault cannon with now S7 at BS3 and then use machine spirit to fire the twin linked bolters at BS5. They are twin linked after all? Seem like it would be a good trade off for +1S for 5 points. Also, before getting close to a disembarked enemy, when would you even normally fire the TL Bolter mounts? So, what do you lose? BDS It doesn't have twin linked bolters, it has two sponsons of hurricane bolters. Although yes each 'hurricane' bolter is fired as three twin linked bolters. Unless i've got the wrong end of the stick and you're not infact saying both hurricanes fire with a single profile... ~Gil :lol: Yes, I meant the Hurrican bolters, just forgot the exact term for them...So could they not (on both sides) be fired with machine spirit? Or at least one side...which probably happens frequently anyway? BDS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Each Hurricane Bolter is a single weapon, which happens to fire exactly like 3 twin-linked bolters. Therefore, if you take psybolts, you can indeed move 6", fire the assault cannon normally, and machine spirit a single Hurricane Bolter sponson. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Each Hurricane Bolter is a single weapon, which happens to fire exactly like 3 twin-linked bolters. Therefore, if you take psybolts, you can indeed move 6", fire the assault cannon normally, and machine spirit a single Hurricane Bolter sponson. This was what I meant, only one of them can be fired, they aren't linked :) ~Gil :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2702991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 20pts is too expensive considering the loss of defensive weapons However 5pts to make the Assault Cannon on a Redeemer St7 makes it a very versatile mid field fire support vehicle! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2703057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 Moving 6" in a Land Raider Cursader with pybolt ammunition and power of the machin spirit, could you not fire the assault cannon with now S7 at BS3 and then use machine spirit to fire the twin linked bolters at BS5. Power of the Machine Spirit doesn't change the Ballistic Skill of your shooting; everything is at BS 4. 20pts is too expensive considering the loss of defensive weapons However 5pts to make the Assault Cannon on a Redeemer St7 makes it a very versatile mid field fire support vehicle! Psybolts on the Crusader are only five points in the final version of the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2703075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hmmmmm...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2703092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDS Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Moving 6" in a Land Raider Cursader with pybolt ammunition and power of the machin spirit, could you not fire the assault cannon with now S7 at BS3 and then use machine spirit to fire the twin linked bolters at BS5. Power of the Machine Spirit doesn't change the Ballistic Skill of your shooting; everything is at BS 4. Ah, flash back to the old rules on PoTM, sorry. BDS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2703164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foolio_Displasius Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Psybolts on the Crusader are only five points in the final version of the codex. ;) Considering that this upgrades (almost?) every weapon the Crusader has... sign me up! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2703309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techmarine Harkus Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I had the same rection when I noticed the +1 str to all guns essensially on the crusader, and the initial enthusiasm was again ruined almost instantly by remembering defensive weapons are str4 or less. The way I've used a Crusader in the past, I dont think this matters. Although I do quite like move 6, fire assault cannons and bolters at infantry, then machine spirit multimelta at a tank (since you can split fire with the machine spirit). Seemed to get maximum use out of all the guns. In order to get the most out of the bolters, and the fact that essensially the crusader is more of a transport than anything as a primary role, mine tend to move 12" and fire one weapon by machine spirit depending on whats relevant. Once it does get close enough to have its troops disembark however, its will generally sit still or at least within 12" and blaze away with everything, most importantly here rapid firing the bolters. Even if you are moving the tank 6" most of the time, there will come a point where it can rapid fire and probably end up stationary, and I think 5pts for 12 strength 5 bolters is pretty awesome. It will pretty much always make a huge difference to the number of wounds you actually manage to cause. Generally meaning 3+ to wound or 2+ to wound/kill instead of 4s or 3s... 1/6th more likely for 5pts... bargain. The assault cannon dosen't benefit as hugely, but as a sort of utility knife for taking out tanks, it definitely gains an edge, as well as hurting monsterous creatures. I would allways take psybolt ammunition on a crusader, and because it amuses me, the flamer equivilent on a redeemer. Whether I'd use either tank is an eniterly differnet question, what with points being tight, and quite probably having a want for lascannons greater than that of the alternative loadouts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2703323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucku Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'd pay 5pt just to get the Assault Cannon upgrade. Str 5 Bolters are rocking in my early games so potentially getting 12 shots from a Crusader is just gravy if I can manage it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225786-psybolts-on-land-raider-crusaders/#findComment-2704045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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