Gets hot when mounted

[captaincandle]

Hey guys,

 

Quick question, the GW way of mounted units seems to be that you cannot affect the unit inside the vehicle until it is destroyed/dismounts (i.e. the clarification of shadows of the warp not affecting psychers in transports).

 

On that note, do you roll gets hot! for units in a vehicle? I cannot find anything in the rulebook to indicate you shouldn't, but it seems inconsistent with the trend.

 

Also, if a vehicle moves only 6, can a mounted member with a heavy weapon fire out of a fire point? (pretty sure he can't, but don't have my rulebook on me).

[Mystic Lemur]

Hey guys,

 

Quick question, the GW way of mounted units seems to be that you cannot affect the unit inside the vehicle until it is destroyed/dismounts (i.e. the clarification of shadows of the warp not affecting psychers in transports).

 

On that note, do you roll gets hot! for units in a vehicle? I cannot find anything in the rulebook to indicate you shouldn't, but it seems inconsistent with the trend.

 

I've always rolled for Gets Hot!, even if they were on a vehicle, because it doesn't list an exception for embarked models. Until GW says, specifically, otherwise that's how I'll keep playing it.

 

Also, if a vehicle moves only 6, can a mounted member with a heavy weapon fire out of a fire point? (pretty sure he can't, but don't have my rulebook on me).

 

p.66 "Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves"

[djhg]

Any model firing from a vehicle counts as moving if the vehicle moves.

So that's a no to a heavy weapon.

 

As for the Gets hot, yes they do roll since there is no specific exception for being mounted.

SOTW has specific exceptions saying that the unit in a transport is safe, but gets hot weapons do not.

 

While I agree there is a trend for embarked units, a trend is not enough to grant immunity in this case.

 

EDIT: Beaten to it :)

[captaincandle]

Cheers for this,

 

I figured there was no exception but I have a habit of looking in one area of the rulebook, not finding what I want and assuming that GW wrote all the rules relating to it in one area (obviously never the case). Wasn't sure if i had missed something.

[Grey Mage]

There are times when a unit in a transport can be hurt- this is one of them.

 

Theres also perils of the warp, and of course explodes results.

[Spacefrisian]

Basicly:

 

Shadow in the warp (and other nasty stuff) that are outside the vehicle cant hurt the unit within.

 

Plasma gets hot is inside the vehicle so it can hurt you.

 

Simple thinking sometimes helps.

[chromedog]

Of course, if you then fail the 'gets hot' armour saves and take 25% casualties, forcing a morale check and fail that as well, the rules kinda just ...

 

There is nothing covering having to fall back and disembarking from vehicles. Logically, they would have to disembark and then run, but this is 40k, and logic has no place in its grimdarkness.

[djhg]

I would personally be inclined to work with the Vehicles and Morale section of the book.

It says that any morale like effects on the crew are represented by the Crew shaken & stunned results on the damage table instead.

 

Since those same damage table results apply to transported units (cannot shoot? can't use the fire points even if you aren't crew)

 

So if you take a gets hot to the face, worse case scenario is you can't do anything as you're busy cleaning that gooey puddle that was Corporal Jones off the floor!

[Spacefrisian]

Of course, if you then fail the 'gets hot' armour saves and take 25% casualties, forcing a morale check and fail that as well, the rules kinda just ...

 

There is nothing covering having to fall back and disembarking from vehicles. Logically, they would have to disembark and then run, but this is 40k, and logic has no place in its grimdarkness.

 

 

Units inside a vehicle never take morale/ LD test checks. Eg thats why the DoM doesnt work.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

O_o You got a page reference to back your claim? DoM can't do it's thing because it has no LoS to units inside vehicles. *That* was the crux of that particular debate.

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

Of course, if you then fail the 'gets hot' armour saves and take 25% casualties, forcing a morale check and fail that as well, the rules kinda just ...

 

There is nothing covering having to fall back and disembarking from vehicles. Logically, they would have to disembark and then run, but this is 40k, and logic has no place in its grimdarkness.

 

I dont think you have to take a morale check if you blow yourself up with your own plasma gun. Morale checks are made after your opponent's shooting wittles you down 25%. Your own stupidity/bad luck has no effect.

[Grey Mage]

O_o You got a page reference to back your claim? DoM can't do it's thing because it has no LoS to units inside vehicles. *That* was the crux of that particular debate.

That makes no sense, as aura-effects dont need line of sight.

[djhg]

O_o You got a page reference to back your claim? DoM can't do it's thing because it has no LoS to units inside vehicles. *That* was the crux of that particular debate.

 

Already been stated that DoM's soul leech ability is not a shooting attack, or a psychic shooting attack. The only, and I do mean ONLY thing that stopped it was the Codex Tyranids FAQ.

Before the FAQ this ended all debate on the topic.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

Ok, slightly off on how DoM worked (been a while since I looked through the 'dex, or had to bother with that old argument). It's still not why DoM doesn't work. And we're still waiting on the page ref for the claim.

 

Only thing I can find is that the vehicles themselves never take tests, because the crew, not passengers, have 'unshakeable faith in their vehicle and orders'.

[Grey Mage]

Ok, slightly off on how DoM worked (been a while since I looked through the 'dex, or had to bother with that old argument). It's still not why DoM doesn't work. And we're still waiting on the page ref for the claim.

Now, this is supposition on my part buuuut.....

 

The DoM has an attack that isnt a shooting attack, but is done in the shooting phase. This is likely because it was easier to describe in its current form, particularly because it seems meant to charge up for the lance/blast power it has. In most respects its just an odd shooting attack, but that would be complicated to spell out AND would preclude it being used with the other attack since DoM isnt a monstrous creature.

 

Thus, they gave a ruling consistant with the rules for shooting at targets inside a transport because while never explicitly stated this aura of death is basicly just that- a shooting attack.

[djhg]

Only thing I can find is that the vehicles themselves never take tests, because the crew, not passengers, have 'unshakeable faith in their vehicle and orders'.

There is no page reference that covers the issue of embarked passengers and morale checks. Probably because the games designers never thought it would come up.

It's certainly a rare enough occurrence that I've never seen it happen in any game I've played or watched. And I do a lot of gaming.

 

In my earlier post I suggested that I would go with the same ruling that applied for vehicle crews not because of any official printed rule, but because in the absence of such a rule it was the decision that seemed to fit the situation best and made the most sense to me.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

As the rules do not permit units to disembark (or embark for that matter) in any phase except for the movement phase I'd say that stops any "fleeing" out of the vehicle.

 

Yes, I know you make an emergency disembark if the vehicle is wrecked, but the rules specifically state that the unit must, so that's an exception.

[Frosty the Pyro]

The FAQ for DoM is one of the many FAQs that technicly goes against the rules but they do it that way for simplicity (read GW are lazy). Its in the same maner as psychic powers not effecting units inside transports, the BrB actualy allows for this, the FAQ does not, for the stated reason of them not wanting to think about it. The DoM at least has legitimate balance issues, though the SitW bit is just more proof that the writer of that FAQ should have his hands broken, as he actualy managed a more infuriating FAQ than the Space wolf one, and THAT is impresive.

[ShinyRhino]

Of course, if you then fail the 'gets hot' armour saves and take 25% casualties, forcing a morale check and fail that as well, the rules kinda just ...

 

There is nothing covering having to fall back and disembarking from vehicles. Logically, they would have to disembark and then run, but this is 40k, and logic has no place in its grimdarkness.

 

I dont think you have to take a morale check if you blow yourself up with your own plasma gun. Morale checks are made after your opponent's shooting wittles you down 25%. Your own stupidity/bad luck has no effect.

 

Incorrect. It's 25% losses in the Shooting phase, with no restrictions on which one. If you lose 25% of the models in your squad to plasma overheats, you make a Morale test to see if you Fall Back.

[dswanick]

Incorrect. It's 25% losses in the Shooting phase, with no restrictions on which one. If you lose 25% of the models in your squad to plasma overheats, you make a Morale test to see if you Fall Back.

Actually, it's not just the Shooting phase.

TAKING MORALE CHECKS

Units normally have to take a Morale check in the following situations:

A) Casualties

A unit losing 25% or more of its models during a single phase must pass a Morale check at the end of that phase, or else it will fall back. Do not count casualties caused by close combat attacks, as they are covered later in C) losing an Assault.

[ShinyRhino]

Thanks for the quote, dswanick.

Away from the rulebook at the moment. ;)

 

I've lost 1/4 Bikers to a Dangerous Terrain test, and then fled off the table as a result. Losses in the Movement phase ;). Rare, but it can happen.

[Lucifer216]

Seriously, how come no-one has commented on the rather "suggestive" title of this thread?

[HiveFleetEzekial]

Because we're grown up and mature enough to leave it alone. Such things do not need to be handled just because they're there. :/

[dswanick]

Because we're grown up and mature enough to leave it alone. Such things do not need to be handled just because they're there. :/

Huh, huh, he said "handled"... ^_^

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

Wow, I just re-read the Morale checks. For some reason I thought it was only shooting. It does specify any "phase" (except close combat). That definitely changes some things..