henrywalker Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 so can the dreadknight move 12 inches per turn if it has the teleporter? or does it just get the 30 inch shunt? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 All signs point to both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It is a Monstrous Creature that moves like jump infantry (just like a winged deamon prince or a hive tyrant)... and once per game it can 'shunt.' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It is a Monstrous Creature that moves like jump infantry (just like a winged deamon prince or a hive tyrant)... and once per game it can 'shunt.' This ^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 That's the conclusion that makes the most sense. However, *technically* the wargear entry for Personal Teleporters states that any unit that has one *is* the Jump Infantry unit type. It's possible you'll encounter somebody who'll argue that your Dreadknight hence is Jump Infantry and not a Monstrous Creature, which means you can only fire one weapon, lose Move Through Cover, and lose the 2d6 armor pen on CC attacks. It doesn't make sense and it's a dick move, but from what I've heard of RAW shenanigans it's possible you may confront that issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 That's the conclusion that makes the most sense. However, *technically* the wargear entry for Personal Teleporters states that any unit that has one *is* the Jump Infantry unit type. It's possible you'll encounter somebody who'll argue that your Dreadknight hence is Jump Infantry and not a Monstrous Creature, which means you can only fire one weapon, lose Move Through Cover, and lose the 2d6 armor pen on CC attacks. It doesn't make sense and it's a dick move, but from what I've heard of RAW shenanigans it's possible you may confront that issue. Your right it is a dick move... It is just like with the old DH codex where people claimed that the teleport homers didn't work any longer because they referenced the 3rd edition mechanic about using the large blast for determining where DS units could be placed. The same dicks will claim that codex space marine command squads can take both bikes and a drop pod, because the unit just gets to move like bikes, but doesn't change from being infantry, and infantry can take a drop pod. Well dicks will be dicks I guess. But some people are claiming that there is no precedent for a MC that moves as jump infantry, which is just not true. Deamon Princes and Hive Tyrants have been in the game for quite some time now, and in the various edition both have had options to take wings... which each time has made them move as jump infantry. Christ it is like when codex IG came out... some of our own crowd was trying to claim that allied GK in an IG army could ride in a Valkyrie... cause it only prohibited Ogryns from riding, but said nothing about TDA models. :P I know that some of these people truly believe what they are saying and that it make perfect sense to them that way and they are not trying to stir the pot, they just don't get the rational of why a rule works the way it does. I for one don't get the "Flatout" FAQ. How can a unit claim a bonus in my turn for something it did in their last turn, but not be affected by the penalties that granted that bonus? I mean really... from a model eye view, why you you be better prepared for you transport to explode in mid-air one moment, but not the next. But others are just looking for any loop hole or screw you move they can find. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 That's covered in the BRB FAQ IIRC. It mentions that the scout phase works like a preceeding Movement phase for all purposes. Or the like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 If anyone ever claims your Dreadknight with teleporter is no longer a Monstrous Creature but is Jump Infantry... ... you just put it in a Stormraven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arithon Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 If anyone ever claims your Dreadknight with teleporter is no longer a Monstrous Creature but is Jump Infantry... ... you just put it in a Stormraven. Great call. :) I think you are being prefectly reasonable with that kind of logic. I must say I do hate rules lawyers trying to twist things to better suit them, after all it is just a game. It is supposed to be fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Also, don't forget to claim 4+ cover saves if his toe is behind a small pebble. After all, if it's not a Monstrous Creature, no need to hide 50%! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Deamon Princes and Hive Tyrants have been in the game for quite some time now, and in the various edition both have had options to take wings... which each time has made them move as jump infantry. there is a huge difference between moving like jump infantry and being one. for example DPs and nid MC with wings still get hit by jaws . the problem with the nemesis is that it doesnt just move like a jump infantry the teleporter says it changes it class. Is it a bug ? probably , but raw you can stick it in to a storm for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 there is a huge difference between moving like jump infantry and being one. for example DPs and nid MC with wings still get hit by jaws. Has that ever been acknowledged in a FAQ, or is this still a RAW vs RAI issue? As the most recent BRB FAQ also gave units that 'move like jump infantry' the ability to deep strike and such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Typhon Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 If anyone ever claims your Dreadknight with teleporter is no longer a Monstrous Creature but is Jump Infantry... ... you just put it in a Stormraven. ^ this. If they want to be a rules Lawyer, show them the error of their ways by showing them the advantages to it no longer being a MC. On a related note, put a recorded sound clip of "ride of the valkyries" into the body of each 'Raven. Fans of Apocalypse Now will know where i'm going with this.. I LOVE THE SMELL OF PROMETHIUM IN THE MORNING! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Man I Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It's possible you'll encounter somebody who'll argue that your Dreadknight hence is Jump Infantry and not a Monstrous Creature, which means you can only fire one weapon, lose Move Through Cover, and lose the 2d6 armor pen on CC attacks. If someone trys this, hit them in the face with the Dreadknight and ask, "Did that feel like jump infantry or a monsterous creature?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2703788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToI Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It's possible you'll encounter somebody who'll argue that your Dreadknight hence is Jump Infantry and not a Monstrous Creature, which means you can only fire one weapon, lose Move Through Cover, and lose the 2d6 armor pen on CC attacks. If someone trys this, hit them in the face with the Dreadknight and ask, "Did that feel like jump infantry of a monsterous creature?" i have a feeling this would end poorly for all involved...just sayin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Then you rule lawyer back. No where in the BRB does it preclude a model have having more than one unit type. A PT Dreadknight is both a MC and Jump Infantry. Though we will see it FAQed to "moves as jump infantry". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Man I Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 i have a feeling this would end poorly for all involved...just sayin The you didnt hit them hard enough :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Then you rule lawyer back. No where in the BRB does it preclude a model have having more than one unit type. A PT Dreadknight is both a MC and Jump Infantry. This is my thought. The PT rule never says it loses its previous MC status. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You can't be more than one unit type. That's a fundamental in 40k. How does a Jump Infantry MC work with Jaws for example? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You can't be more than one unit type. That's a fundamental in 40k. Citation please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You can't be more than one unit type. That's a fundamental in 40k. Citation please? I second this motion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 How would an Infantry/Vehicle unit work? Terrain test, armour saves or AV penetration? What happens when your Jump Infantry/MC is hit by Jaws? What happens when a MC/Artillery unit is shot at? And why stop at only having two unit types? How does an Infantry/Jump Infantry/Jet bike/Artillery/MC/Vehicle unit work? Rules for each unit type are specific and unique. You cannot mesh them together without breaking the basic rules of the game. Edit: Do you get locked in combat with an Infantry/Vehicle unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2704960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You can't be more than one unit type. That's a fundamental in 40k. Citation please? I second this motion. Id have to insist that you use the slowest movement speed- 6"- and that you wouldnt ignore terrain. Why? Because monstrous creatures dont do either of those things. And since movement is determined by unit type, you have to use the slowest movement speed of the unit- RAW. However, as jump infantry youll also need to take dangerous terrain tests every time you try to move through cover unless you remember to tell me your deliberately walking before you roll the distance. Furthermore Id have to say that since the monstrous creature rules change how LOS affects shooting compared to the rules for infantry- unlike the jump infantry wich makes no mention of them- youd have to take the 50% to obscure, etc. Indeed, the precident would probly beg you to take the worst of other situations aswell- youll have to take dangerous terrain tests if you assault into cover, and youll fallback 3d6 instead of 2d6- as the monstrous creature mentions neither of these situations as changed, but the jump infantry does. Atleast youll get move through cover? Of course, if you wanted to be reasonable we could house rule that they just move like jump infantry.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2705029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Pardon me. But does your argument there have no ground to stand on? Because well you did not combat our asking where it says something cannot be both you just went off the rocker and made some silly claims and still have not shown where it says something cannot be more than one type. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2705030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 No it doesn't. It also doens't say to read the dice rolls from the top side... My post was to show examples of why combining unit types fundamentally breaks 40K. The basic rules do not work when you combine a unit type, as they are distinct, and have distinct and unqiue rules. If you can combine unit types, then *you* have to answer how the combinations work. How does a Jump Infantry MC work when hit by Jaws? How do you damage an Artillery MC? Can you be locked in combat with a Vehicle Jump Infantry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225836-dreadknight-teleporter/#findComment-2705113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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