Necron Heavy Destroyers

[Legatus]

All vehicles can fire ordnance weapons on the move in 5th Edition. But they cannot fire any other weapons when they want to fire an ordnance weapon.

[Questioner]

As an experienced necron player, I can see the argument for allowing destroyers and heavy destroyers to fire after Turbo-Boosting. However, I would never do this. I simply never need to. RAW says yes, as Turbo-Boosters says "When using their turbo-boosters they may move up to 24" in the Movement phase." It says move. However, I would always RAI, as otherwise you will get a lot of unhappy players: and I don't like unhappy players, as I like paying Warhammer.

 

 

Oh yeah, and my Necrons don't need any more help in winning!

[dizzy-xc]

Isnt a flat out move 18" for a jetbike? What about as long as you dont use Turbo Boost and then fire like that? RAI?

 

RAW its move and fire and although Legatus spun a long tale on how to argue it properly, anything needing such a long winded and in depth argument is destined to fail in my book. Keep it simple and stupid.

[DarkGuard]

There are no flat out moves for jetbikes, because jetbikes are not fast vehicles, which is the only way you can move flat out. Jetbikes can move up to 12" a turn, and this move can be made over terrain and models as if they weren't there, as long as they can be physically placed at the end of the move in a destination that is more than 1" away from enemy models, and not on top of friendlies. Jetbikes can also turbo-boost, which allows them to move up to 24", and they gain a cover save if their destination is more than 18" away from their starting point. They cannot perform it if they start or will land in terrain, but again can move over things. This move prevents them from going to ground in the next turn, shooting, assaulting, moving further etc, it's basically the only thing they can do.

 

Sorry about that, but I've heard a lot of people talking about flat out movements for jetbikes, and I felt the need to clarify that there are not flat out movements for jetbikes, only normal movement and turbo boost, which while similar to flat out is actually quite different.

[timmytool]

I think this is all mute as Destroyers are not unit type "bike" so they dont get the USR "turbo boosters" just like the C:GK dreadknight that has the doomfist(read dreadnought CCW) it does not get double strength as it does not have the unit type.

 

BRB p53 as a separate paragraph "Bikes also have the "turbo boosters" special rule (see page 76)."

 

turbo booster is a separate rule to that of the bikes, that it modifies the normal movement for the bike while using it does not mean the destroyer gains it.

[DarkGuard]

It's my understanding that Necron Destroyers move as jetbikes. Jetbikes are a sub-division of bikes, much like how jetpacks are a sub-division of jump infantry.

[timmytool]

It's my understanding that Necron Destroyers move as jetbikes. Jetbikes are a sub-division of bikes, much like how jetpacks are a sub-division of jump infantry.

 

regardless it does not have the unit type(bike or jetbike) so it does not get the USR that the unit type adds. it gets it's movement rules but the turbo booster is not part of its movement it is a USR ability.

[DarkGuard]

But neither does it has flat out movement, unless I'm missing something else.

 

EDIT: The Necron FAQ does mention that Scarab Swarms, which move like jetbikes, can turbo-boost, while Wraiths can also turbo-boost despite being infantry that move as jetbikes. Of course, that doesn't say anything about Destroyer bodies, but the precedent in the Codex seems to have been set.

[Chengar Qordath]

It's my understanding that Necron Destroyers move as jetbikes. Jetbikes are a sub-division of bikes, much like how jetpacks are a sub-division of jump infantry.

 

regardless it does not have the unit type(bike or jetbike) so it does not get the USR that the unit type adds. it gets it's movement rules but the turbo booster is not part of its movement it is a USR ability.

That's hardly a valid argument, considering the fact that when the Necron Codex was written there was no such thing as Unit Type: Jetbike. A 3rd editions codex is not going to use the same wording as the 5th edition BRB; allowances for reasonable interpretation and common sense need to be made.

[dswanick]

It's my understanding that Necron Destroyers move as jetbikes. Jetbikes are a sub-division of bikes, much like how jetpacks are a sub-division of jump infantry.

 

regardless it does not have the unit type(bike or jetbike) so it does not get the USR that the unit type adds. it gets it's movement rules but the turbo booster is not part of its movement it is a USR ability.

Isn't that the same argument used against units that "move as Jump Infantry" not being able to Deep Strike? And GW FAQd that one in the BRB FAQ, which tells me that when GW says a unit "moves as" it gets all the movement capabilities of the unit type, which should include USRS benefits.

[greatcrusade08]

i dont understand what the issue is tbh..

the entry for destroyers state that they count as jetbikes for the purposes of movement (as do scarabs and wraiths).. this is not thier unit type but it doesnt matter

 

page 53 of the BRB explains that jetbikes are the same as bikes with certain exceptions and differences.. needless to say they would have the turbo-boost special ability since its a movement specific ability and they DO move like jetbikes...

page 76 on turbo boosting states they can move 24" with turbo-boost but cannot shoot or assault etc.

 

so basically the heavy destroyers can move upto 12" and shoot (with relentless) or turbo-boost upto 24"

 

it gets it's movement rules but the turbo booster is not part of its movement it is a USR ability.

to clarify... they move as jetbikes, which in terms of this argument have the same rules as bikes..

under bike movement it notes they have the turbo-boost USR, therefore jetbikes also do.. and anything that uses jetbikes/bikes movement rules must also have it (as its specifically mentioned under movement)

[Orphus]

As someone who regularly verses Necrons and is subject to frequent lectures on how they work etc I can say this: As in most recent Codex: Necron all forms of Destroyer are counted as Jet bikes "for movement purposes only." IIRC this DOES NOT effect their shooting in any way.

[Something Wycked]

As someone who regularly verses Necrons and is subject to frequent lectures on how they work etc I can say this: As in most recent Codex: Necron all forms of Destroyer are counted as Jet bikes "for movement purposes only." IIRC this DOES NOT effect their shooting in any way.

So your Necron friend claims to be able to Turbo Boost his Destroyers and then fire using the Relentless rule?

 

I think you need to point out to him that movement always affects shooting, and the Turbo Boost USR is not nullified by the Relentless USR. Bikes are Relentless too, but are still prevented from firing by Turbo Boost.

 

He can't have his cake and eat it too; either he gets the benefits AND the drawbacks of Turbo Boost, or he gets neither.

[Chengar Qordath]

As someone who regularly verses Necrons and is subject to frequent lectures on how they work etc I can say this: As in most recent Codex: Necron all forms of Destroyer are counted as Jet bikes "for movement purposes only." IIRC this DOES NOT effect their shooting in any way.

So your Necron friend claims to be able to Turbo Boost his Destroyers and then fire using the Relentless rule?

 

I think you need to point out to him that movement always affects shooting, and the Turbo Boost USR is not nullified by the Relentless USR. Bikes are Relentless too, but are still prevented from firing by Turbo Boost.

 

He can't have his cake and eat it too; either he gets the benefits AND the drawbacks of Turbo Boost, or he gets neither.

Problem is, it's not the Relentless USR (which did not even exist when the Necron Codex was written), but a special rule possessed by Necron Destroyers which is differently (and more ambiguously) worded. There's an argument to be made (though I personally don't agree with it) that since Codex > BRB, the Destroyer's special rule trumps the restrictions of the Turbo-Boost USR.

[greatcrusade08]

yeah it does state they may mov and fire thier weapons, but people get waaaay to anal in terms of cruddy rules interpreting..

it makes mr clown sad :D

 

enter common sense, and we say that the above means the same as relentless and they cannot fire after turbo-boost.. if someone really wants to be that beardy walk away from the table.. plus i highly doubt it gets ruled in thier favour at tournaments

[dizzy-xc]

As someone who regularly verses Necrons and is subject to frequent lectures on how they work etc I can say this: As in most recent Codex: Necron all forms of Destroyer are counted as Jet bikes "for movement purposes only." IIRC this DOES NOT effect their shooting in any way.

So your Necron friend claims to be able to Turbo Boost his Destroyers and then fire using the Relentless rule?

 

I think you need to point out to him that movement always affects shooting, and the Turbo Boost USR is not nullified by the Relentless USR. Bikes are Relentless too, but are still prevented from firing by Turbo Boost.

 

He can't have his cake and eat it too; either he gets the benefits AND the drawbacks of Turbo Boost, or he gets neither.

 

But the Destroyers dont use the Relentless USR. All it says is they can move and fire. Simple. Problem we are having is working in all the special rules that came after the codex was released.

[Something Wycked]

But the Destroyers dont use the Relentless USR. All it says is they can move and fire. Simple. Problem we are having is working in all the special rules that came after the codex was released.

Simple solution; they may move and fire in normal situations. Turbo Boost is not a normal situation; I'm certain their special rule does not state they may Turbo Boost and fire.

[daveclark890]

This is really interesting. I feel as a cron destroyer wing player that its definately a case of RAI otherwise I would not just win but totally destroy my opponents lists, It would technically give my weapons 60" range!! That is a little crazy. Truely RAI as opposed to RAW, and I use the stuff. I have 20 destroyer chassis in my usual list!