Fleet Based Chapters.

[MalevolentPixel]

The Marines Malevolent's appearance in Nick Kyme's novel, 'Salamander'. Revealed to me that the Malevolent's were very encouraging of the use of Teleporters and Beacons, and long range operations from Strike vessels, even out of fellow Marines detection range (Possibly not the Raven Guard of course >.>). this leads me to assume, with a comfortable attitude towards space travel and Orbital operations, the Marines Malevolent, with no proposed Homeworld. Are a Space bound chapter.

 

Evidence to support my theory; The marines Malevolent looked to be in a state of 'Constant war' to the Salamanders, this indicates to me, a Crusading army, fueled by their Egotistical attitude to desire new challenges, venturing out pro actively to crush enemies of the imperium.

 

But this then adds some problems, ive been storyboarding my Fiction series, and now see the need to know more about the 'life abroad' how scouts deploy from vessels, what they are like, size, fleet size, how support is gained, thunder-hawk capacity etc.

 

Here are a few Questions that spring to Mind, on top of those already stated

• Personal Chambers? Ammenities on an Astartes Vessel.
  
• What would the Armoury be like?
  
• Are there 'Hangers' as such for Gunships and Stormravens?
  
• How many Marines can a Strike cruiser/Battle Barge, house, with full scale war, opperational equipment.?
  
• Whats a Generic Fleet size? Base it on 2 company's and Reserves. Or a chapter. Even? is this plausable?
  

Thanks for taking interest. On last question (If a little lazy) is there a fiction Subforum? :3

[Valin Darkblade]

MP let me offer some insight as provided by the fluff out there.

 

Question 1: Most Marine Chambers are spartan at best. Think of a monks cell in a monastary. A single bed a foot locker a simple table. Captains and what not may have a little larger but not by much.

 

Question 2: Armouries are a fair size and in most the fluff I have seen over the years house the training areas and training cages for Marines. They would contain both the practice weapons and the weapons of the Chapter. Techmarines would have cells off the Armoury and work areas where they would have weapons and armor that is in a state of repair or construction.

 

Question 3: Hanger Bays exsist no board the Strike Cruisers to house Gunships and Storm Ravens. If you wish to have an example think of Babylon 5 and Battle Star Galactica Hangers on a Larger scale.

 

Question 4: Strike Cruisers Generally house a company of Marines while a Battle Barge can house an entire Chapter.

 

Question 5: Most of the Fleets I have seen for 40k are made up of no more then half a dozen vessels some times close to a dozen. For most Chapters though its generally a Capital ship a few frigates escorts a strike Cruiser or 2 and thats it.

[Grimdarkness]

IIRC a battle barge can transport 3 full companys of marines and there equipment. In the codex the U.M fleet list has 3 battle barges listed.

[Espada Azul]

Question 4: A standard battle barge can house about 3 companies worth of marines, with exceptions like the Black Templars Eternal Crusader capable of deploying as much as 5 companies worth.

 

Question 5: A non-1st Founding, depending on how close their relationship with the Mechanicum, has anywhere between 2-3 Battle Barges, 8-10 Strike Cruisers, and associated escorts (Cobra Frigates, Firestorms, etc.). Some fleet-based Chapters have factory-ships as well.

 

(Ref: My own Chapter's Fleet/Force Disposition, which is based partly on the 3rd Edition Codex list of the Ultramarines forces)

[Seahawk]

A good source to start with is the Naval Information thread in the UM subforum; just ignore the UM specific bits :(.

 

1. Agreed with Valin.

 

2. Agreed. The armories are sufficient to completely support a Space Marine force in the field for long periods of time.

 

3. Agreed, all ships have hanger bays for Thunderhawks and such. In fact, considerable hull space is given to the launch bays as they are an important part of space marine deployment. Strike cruisers carry at least 3-4 thunderhawks, while battle barges carry at least 9-10. This allows simultaneous deployment of the entire complement of marines onboard.

 

4. Disagree. While a strike cruiser can typically carry a single company of space marines, a battle barge can only carry three companies, not entire chapters. This includes all support personnel and vehicles. Ships that carry entire chapters are ridiculously extremely rare, and those that I know of: the Imperial Fists' Phalanx and the Dark Angels' The Rock, and the Fire Hawks' Rapturous Rex (lost in the warp).

 

5. Disagree. Most chapters have two to three Battlebarges, four to eight strike cruisers, and numerous smaller frigates and destroyers. Weaker chapters have fewer ships, fleet-based chapters (like the Black Templars) have many more.

[Grey Mage]

Here are a few Questions that spring to Mind, on top of those already stated

• Personal Chambers? Ammenities on an Astartes Vessel.
  

Thanks for taking interest. On last question (If a little lazy) is there a fiction Subforum? :3[/i]

Well, in the Space Wolf novels a cruiser had a chamber for each marine, a bed, a small logic-engine with a basic datasearch, some had veiwports, and they all had a chair to sit in during the transition to warp-space.

 

• What would the Armoury be like?
  

Does a marine use it? Then a strike cruiser, or larger, would have it. Rapid-strike vessels probly have every small arm available, ammunition stockpiles, a medical facility, 'basic' gym, a thunderhawk or 3, some drop pods, and whatever vehicles they checked out of the motor-pool. Remember, even an imperial escort is a little over a kilometer in length- they have plenty of room.

 

• Are there 'Hangers' as such for Gunships and Stormravens?
  

Simply put- yes. Only strike cruiser sized vessels and battle barge sized vessels will have enough on hand to use them as interceptors or a fighter screen, but it would be a rare astartes vessel that didnt bring the ability to house a thunderhawk for them to land in.

 

• How many Marines can a Strike cruiser/Battle Barge, house, with full scale war, opperational equipment.?
  

There is no definitive number- strike cruisers and battle barges are each unique vessels. As a rule of thumb a strike cruiser usually only carries a single company of marines, and whatever reserves theyre using- upwards of 250 marines isnt unreasonable. A 'basic' battle barge is described as easily holding 3 companies, the facilities needed to produce basic rhino-chassis vehicles, arms, armor, and munitions for around 500- the strike cruisers have smaller facilities, and unlikely to produce vehicles, though a repair center is present on atleast some if not all vessels.

 

Larger battle barges are known to exist- such as the Eternal Crusader of the Black Templars or the Phalanx of the Imperial Fists. These monstrous vessels are often capable of refitting an entire chapter in power armor, building any of the standard marine weapons and/or vehicles, and having large training facilities on board.

 

There are numerous accounts of marines on ships from strike cruiser through massive battle barge training in hostile environments while awaiting their destination- jungles, ice worlds, deserts, et all. It is not unlikely that these training areas are common to most astartes vessels of this size, and in some cases might serve other purposes- such as part of the air scrubbers, or water filtration.

 

• Whats a Generic Fleet size? Base it on 2 company's and Reserves. Or a chapter. Even? is this plausable?
  

Varies wildly, older chapters will have more battle barges available to them, but in general most marine chapters at operational strength will have 1-2 battle barges, 3-6 strike cruisers, and 3 or 4 dozen rapid strike vessels to run small missions and escort duties to the larger vessels. Many of these will have only a single marine, or perhaps a demi-squad on board during fleet actions, though many rapid strike vessels are capable of transporting several squads adequately, if not with as much useful training and refit value as a strike cruiser.

 

Some, such as the Ultramarines, have over a dozen battle barges at their command. Most of these would be kept safely mothballed in a secure facility until need arises to awaken and use them. Why? Because, a battle barge is several miles long and takes a crew that in some cases will require 20,000 men or more- though it should be noted astartes vessels tend to be of high quality and include more automation than most vessels in the imperium. Simply put, its alot of effort to man these ships when theyre not needed, so at any given time the ultramarines tend to have around 3 barges on hand.

 

The Space Wolves on the other hand have 13 capitol ships ranging from strike cruiser to battle barge size, and like many older chapters they have adapted some imperial navy ships to their use- the flagship of the wolves is a modified Emperor class battleship given to Russ by the emperor himself. While many astartes vessels are purpose-made, the ability to use a salvaged, gifted, or reclaimed vessel shouldnt be discounted out of hand.

 

So, just to reiterate, feel free to customize your vessel somewhat. Saying "strike cruiser" is alot like saying "jet fighter" theres dozens of different varieties, and older militaries may have older versions, who may or may not have been updated with newer things, damaged and rebuilt, or be housing technology that can no longer be reproduced.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

• Personal Chambers? Ammenities on an Astartes Vessel.
  
• What would the Armoury be like?
  
• Are there 'Hangers' as such for Gunships and Stormravens?
  
• How many Marines can a Strike cruiser/Battle Barge, house, with full scale war, opperational equipment.?
  
• Whats a Generic Fleet size? Base it on 2 company's and Reserves. Or a chapter. Even? is this plausable?
  

Thanks for taking interest. On last question (If a little lazy) is there a fiction Subforum? :3[/i]

 

1.) Personal chambers are likely to be spartan and sparse as Valin said; Space Marines don't generally take keep-sakes and don't truly own anything since everything they have is the property of the Chapter. The Horus Heresy novels showed Garviel Loken performing daily maintenance on his own power armor in his chambers, so its possible that the power armor and personal weapons are stored in a Marine's living quarters while aboard ship, or that "arming chambers" are side-rooms of a Marine's living/sleeping/prayer chamber.

 

2.) The Armory of a Chapter -- whether in a ship or a monastery -- is going to be massive. It will contain bays for the housing and maintenance of vehicles, including warehousing space for the storage of spare parts like replacement actuators, tank treads, engine parts, armor patching kits, etc. This is where spare weaponry and specialist gear is kept in (sometimes sequestered) vaults, and there will be massive magazines full of thousands upon thousands of spare bolt rounds, melta cannisters, grenades of all types, and all the other panoply of war that is needed to fight long campaigns. The housing areas for the Chapter's techmarines are likely to be in the Armory as well, since they tend to disassociate themselves from the rest of the Chapter. Imagine a cross between a motor pool, a repair bay, and an ammo dump, and you've got the basic concept.

 

3.) Hangar bays are part and parcel of every Astartes vessel, though the smaller rapid strike craft aren't likely to actually have any Thunderhawks embarked since they are designed purely for space combat rather than performing ship-to-shore missions like strike cruisers and battle barges. The hangars' ship exits are probably covered by mono-permeable force fields with back-up armored doors for warp travel and such. They'll have massive gantries, girders, and cranes cris-crossing the hangar ceilings for moving heavy equipment and parked Thunderhawks around. As for the number of hangars, I can't answer that one, but I'd venture to guess two seperate (but adjoining) bays at least per ship just so that they'd be able to launch and retrieve small craft should one bay be knocked out by enemy action.

 

4.) A strike cruiser is designed to provide full support for your average company-sized element. Total embarkation capacity is likely to be around 150 Astartes -- 100 for the company, and anywhere from 20-50 for attachments from the 1st, 10th, or Reserve Companies -- with enoguh space for all of a company's Rhinos and Razorbacks, and extra bays for the storage of attached vehicles from the Chapter armory (Whirlwinds, Predators, and so forth). There will also be extra space for anywhere from five to maybe a dozen Astartes (including Techmarines and servitors) who are permanent crew for the ship, and several hundred or thousand indentured human serfs who serve as the labor gangs in running the ship.

 

A battle barge, on the other hand, is designed to be a command vessel for multi-company operations, and has the capacity to carry three full companies (ostensibly with attachments as well), which after attachments and ship's crew, will have a maximum embarked Space Marine strength of around 400 Marines. It also is going to have a larger hangar capacity for storing Thunderhawks.

 

5.) A standard Codex Chapter's fleet will contain, on average, 2-3 battle barges, 4-6 strike cruisers, and anywhere from 6-12 rapid strike vessels. Crusading chapters tend to have more ships than normal chapters since they need to have combat-dedicated ships rather than just armed transports with a bombardment ability. They're also likely to have non-Astartes ships in the Chapter fleet, consisting of combat vessels seized from the enemy or salvaged after battle.

 

Edit: Gaggh! I was scooped!

[CantonWC]

Hi

 

Good thread. My Dark Swords are fleet-based, so it's good to see others' thoughts on what typical fleet disposition would be like.

 

As an aside, I've been reading Soul Hunter. The Night Lords characters are based aboard a Strike Cruiser named Covenant of Blood, which is stated as being capable of carrying up to 300 Marines, although there's only about fifty left at the start of the story. Just to put it out there.

[NightrawenII]

Just saying...

 

12k crew on 8k long spaceship of doom is more of skeletal crew.

Where you get 12k crew on 8km ship? :D

 

Imperial Cruisers are ~3km

Battleships ~5km

Light Cruisers ~2000-2500metres

Escorts 750-1200metres

 

Therefore Lunar is, according to BFG, 3km long at best with 16.000 crew.

 

My two pennyworth on crew sizes was around 1500-2000 per damage point for Imperial and Chaos capital ships (adjust down a bit for Eldar and up a bit for Orks), but only around 2-500 total for escorts. Space Marine ships, as had been mooted, I would imagine to benefit from a lot of automated systems and wired in servitors to reduce their crew requirements to a minimum and increase their state of readiness in comparison with Navy ships. I would imagine that most Imperial and Chaos capital ships could find transport capacity for troops equal to about 1/3 to 1/2 their crew compliment. Tanks, artillery, Titans etc would need specialist transports to carry in any significant numbers.

Unlike the vessels of the Imperial Navy, a Space Marine ship has a relatively small crew. A Space Marine is far too valuable to waste in manning a gun or watching a surveyor screen, and so only the officers aboard a vessel are likely to be Space Marines, as well as the few Techmarines who oversee the engines and perform other mechanical duties. Almost all the ship’s systems are run and monitored by servitors; half-human cyborgs who are wired into the vessel’s weapons, engines and communications apparatus. There are also a few hundred Chapter serfs to attend to other duties, such as routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the Space Marines during meal times and other such honoured tasks. These serfs come from the Chapter’s home planet or the enclave they protect, many of them Novitiates or applicants who have failed some part of the recruiting or training process. These serfs are fanatically loyal to their superhuman masters, and indoctrinated into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter’s Cult. Although human, they still benefit from

remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action – even without the support of their genetically modified lords.

Don't forget that BB and SC aren't used just for transportation of marines. They have also hangars for T-Hawks, Droppods and Boarding Torpedoes launchers, vehicles and amno storages etc. etc.

 

Using BFG:

Battle Barge: 12Hp*1500= 18.000 (8-10.000) crew

Strike Cruiser: 6Hp*1500= 9.000 (4-5.000) crew

Destroyers & Frigates: 1Hp*200= 200 crew (Codex: Space Marines (5th ed.) lists the crew of the Death Spectres' Cobra Destroyer Honoured Prophesy as 5 Space Marines and 150 serfs (pg.30).)

[Iron Lord]

Actually, BFG does not give lengths for ships.

 

Rogue Trader, and Rogue Trader: Into the Storm, does.

 

A Cobra is 1.5 km long. A Sword is 1.6 km long. A Lunar or a Tyrant is 5 km long.

 

it's not new for the cruiser to be so long, either- as I recall, the book Execution Hour gives 5 km long as the length of the Dictator class cruiser Macharius.

[MalevolentPixel]

Most chapters have two to three Battlebarges, four to eight strike cruisers, and numerous smaller frigates and destroyers. Weaker chapters have fewer ships, fleet-based chapters (like the Black Templars) have many more.

 

The Marines Malevolent, as ive been guessing are a fleet based chapter, and also have their roots going back to the Age of Apostacy their tenious and dangerous Ego sprouted long ago. so it may be safe to say that the fleet is well made up, Just a Semitopical question, is there anywhere i can get some more of the stats you guys are pulling up?, Arms, Length etc. Ive been looking on the GW site at the descriptions under 'BG' section. but does this give me just the genral outfit to base things on ^^.

 

Thanks for this, its going to be really useful for me, A solid base of Battle Barge and Strike Cruisers. sprinkle with escorts, serve in the chill of space. But what side? like the Gaurd have recoverey vehicles and logistics, like fuel trucks etc. are there space bound equivelants?

 

As an aside, I've been reading Soul Hunter. The Night Lords characters are based aboard a Strike Cruiser named Covenant of Blood, which is stated as being capable of carrying up to 300 Marines, although there's only about fifty left at the start of the story. Just to put it out there.

 

Also a good bit of information on the side there, safe to say it makes it mover versatile, with alot of space, it saves overcrowding :3

 

The Armory of a Chapter -- whether in a ship or a monastery -- is going to be massive. It will contain bays for the housing and maintenance of vehicles, including warehousing space for the storage of spare parts like replacement actuators, tank treads, engine parts, armor patching kits, etc. This is where spare weaponry and specialist gear is kept in (sometimes sequestered) vaults, and there will be massive magazines full of thousands upon thousands of spare bolt rounds, melta cannisters, grenades of all types, and all the other panoply of war that is needed to fight long campaigns. The housing areas for the Chapter's techmarines are likely to be in the Armory as well, since they tend to disassociate themselves from the rest of the Chapter. Imagine a cross between a motor pool, a repair bay, and an ammo dump, and you've got the basic concept.

Just replace the Cars with Thunderhawks!? haha. yes, i see where everyone is coming from, this sums it up nicley though.

 

Thank you all for your input, ive recently borrowed 'Horus Rising' for the quick read up on the Chambers in a ship, and am finding it a good pool of information, its only furthered my interest in the matter. and i hope i can find more about the fleets and such!, thank you all again

[soddinnutter]

I have never been able to get my head around the 'Battle Barge can only hold 3-5 companies' thing.

 

I know Marines are big but how exactly are ~300 of them managing to fill a vessel about 4 and 1/5 miles long? Even giving it nice thick walls, storage space for space to air ships, drop pod launchers, the mechanical workings and quarters for the 8-10 thousand crew there is still going to be room for more than ~300 marines.

[Malthe]

It's a matter of engine size I think.

Have you seen the pictures of the exhaust ports of a battle barge, they are huge!

And beyond that the engines have to generate power for force-fields, massive(!) guns and all internal systems.

Even with clever Si-Fi tech, that's gotta take up some space!

Also, you seem to have forgotten the 8.000-10.000 crew members on that imaginary battle barge of yours :)

 

Besides that a battle barge has to be interely self-sufficient, for an obsene period of time!

That mean production facilities on a huge scale. Even Marines have to eat, and therefore the battle barge would need either the capability to produce food and water.

Really the battle barge shouldn't be compared to warships, it should be compared to a full military base, complete with docking areas, power plants, launching bays, training facilities, etc.

Imagine the logistics behind a military base, and take into account how much bigger one would need to be in order to function without supply-lines.

There's no flying in materials to a battle barge once it's deployed for war, it has to produce everything itself.

 

And that takes space.

A lot of space!

[soddinnutter]

But ~1,000 people added to a standing population of 8-10 thousand is not going to make such a huge mind boggeling difference when you realise that marines can hibernate.

 

just my thought.

[exetus]

Whats a Generic Fleet size? Base it on 2 company's and Reserves. Or a chapter. Even? is this plausable?

 

A good example of an older fleet-based chapter is the Lamenters (2nd Founding). Like the Imperial Fists (although not nearly as large), they had a mobile star fortress that was designated a "Chapter Barque" and was capable of housing the entire Chapter and also had its own repair dock. they also had a couple of Mechanicus forgeships and two battle barges at their disposal. They also had close to 10 cruisers of various classes and something on the order of about 20 escort vessels.

 

I know Marines are big but how exactly are ~300 of them managing to fill a vessel about 4 and 1/5 miles long? Even giving it nice thick walls, storage space for space to air ships, drop pod launchers, the mechanical workings and quarters for the 8-10 thousand crew there is still going to be room for more than ~300 marines.

 

Some of this can be explained as the massive storage spaces for the vessels own weaponry. These ships carry the spaces to store gargantuan ship-to-ship torpedoes for both attack and boarding. They have the projectiles for their massive ship-to-ship weapons batteries that are linear accelerators and some carry the ammunition for the powerful nova cannons. They also put a ton of space into the huge plasma drives of the ships and all of the intricate systems that make these work. Shield emitters for both the Gellar Field and particle shields dot the hull, redundant systems for every portion of the ship, such as a secondary bridge. Storage for food, water and smaller munitions, also redundant in case the vessel suffers battle damage or contamination. It's not too hard to see why such ships are so massive. A current US aircraft carrier is .3km long, but all it does is float on the water. Now imagine how big it would have to be if you suddenly added guns that accelerated 18-wheel truck-sized (or massively larger) projectiles 15,000km in a single shot. There are also training environments in ships that you read about in numerous novels. The training decks can simulate atmospheres and locations of all types, so those must be necessarily vast.

[Jehoel]

I have never been able to get my head around the 'Battle Barge can only hold 3-5 companies' thing.

 

I know Marines are big but how exactly are ~300 of them managing to fill a vessel about 4 and 1/5 miles long? Even giving it nice thick walls, storage space for space to air ships, drop pod launchers, the mechanical workings and quarters for the 8-10 thousand crew there is still going to be room for more than ~300 marines.

 

Battle Barges are 4 kilometers long, not 4 miles. Since a kilometer is about 0.62 miles, 4 kilometers would be about 2.5 miles.

 

Now that said, if you use a modern carrier such as a U.S. Navy Nimitiz class carrier as a basis, there are some size issues.

 

The Nimitz class carriers are about 1,000 feet long, about 200 feet wide (average), and carry about 5,000 crewmen (with the full flight crew onboard). The modern carrier does not use much in the way of automation, so that means more people needed than the Battle Barge.

 

Just some info to chew on.

[Guest Mordray]

I suspect, though I can't prove it, that the listed statement of 1 company and 3 companies is instead the ships capacity for a simultaneous launch.

 

 

Of course there is also the old standby... when fans gather and discuss, writers and editor's weep as their work is found wanting.

[MalevolentPixel]

With All of this delicious information to chew on. Im gonna throw something out there, with this being a DIY disscussion thread, its perfectly on topic.

 

Taking into account The Marines Malevolent will be dipicted as a fleet bound chapter, and their age as a chapter, i feel it apt to give them a sizable fleet. And since they are borderline Piratical nature, i will also include an array of 'aquired' aspects of the fleet (For better use against the foes of mankind of cours-e)

 

- Main Space Marine Aspects

4 Battle Barges

9 Strike cruisers

6 Gladuis-class Frigates

6 Hunter-Class Frigates

4 Nova-Class Frigates

5 Firestorm Frigates

 

-Aquired Aspects

2 Salvaged Forge Ships

1 Salvaged Imperial Cruiser

1 Salvaged Dauntless Class Cruiser

 

- Other Bodies

Apeptus Mechanicus Battleship

Apeptus Mechanicus light Cruiser

 

Can anyone see any issues, be EXTREMELY critical about the fluff her, taking into account Marines Malevolent will Salvage all the ships they can find, and the Storyboarding includes the Mechanicus from the very beginning, demanding tribute from the salvaged vessels that were assimilated in the fleet, i do REALLY want them to attach temporarily to the fleet, this IS my first fleet overview, so please rip it to shreds with your majority of knowledge

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The forge ships are all wrong. As Salamander showed us, they have to scrimp and salvage and steal everything; they shouldn't have forge ships to build stuff for themselves. Also, I'd cut down on the battle barges. Even though they have plenty of automated systems and lots of servitors running things, they still have a hefty crew requirement of serfs, and I don't see the Marines Malevolent -- who once bombarded a town full of humans on Armageddon to kill the orks attacking it -- as really wanting to deal with the necessity of interacting with a bunch of joe humans to get some fighting done. I also think you have them with too many Astartes craft and not enough salvaged Imperial warships. They're old and battered, without a home world to serve as Chapter forge or shipyard, so how're they going to rebuild losses in Gladii or strike cruisers? I'd revise your SM craft down and your Imperial ships up, and for fiction purposes, you can always give them warships from the old classes that form the basis of the Chaos fleets -- Murders and Devastations, etc -- to represent old ships they've salvaged or even renegade ships they've taken as prizes after boarding assaults.

 

Another option is to give them one giant ship that serves as the headquarters. The Imperial Fists have the Phalanx, the Fire Hawks had the Rapturous Rex, the Crusade-era Iron Hands had the Fist of Iron, and then there's the Vengeful Spirit of the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus/Black Legion. All of these have been stated as being (or can be extrapolated as such) massive battleships or Warp-capable star fortresses. I'd go with the swarm of sharks concept with a bunch of cruisers and escorts rather than this but again -- its an option.

[Arkangilos]

The Battlebarges can only drop three companies simultaniously, it does not say that they can not cary the full chapter.

On that note however, unless it was very well defended, they would not put a full chapter on a standard battlebarge, as if it were destroyed, the whole chapter would be gone.

They would most likely put only a max of 300 (with the respective attatchments) on a BB, because if it were to be destroyed, the SM could likely evacuate that number. It also adds more tactical flexibility if your troops are dispersed into other ships.

The special BB, however, would be more likely to cary the whole chapter in special ceremonies. You know, stuff like that.

 

The number of BB that you have wouldn't be a problem except for the logistics of the crews. If your chapter is "civilized" it would most likely not be a problem, but if it is an "uncivilized" chapter, it would be extremely hard to maintain.

 

I do disagree with the statement about the forgeships though. What better ship to have after a battle than a ship that salvages all scrap metals?

 

Also, as for the crew sizes from Nightrawen, I have the BFG rulebook, and I do not see where it says where the crew is. The only SOLID crew fluff I have seen comes from the Rogue Trader RPG, and they put the crew sizes of Imperial Ships of the equivalent sizes in the uper 80,000s.

Now, SM ships would naturally have fewer crew, and personally, I like Nightrawen's crew sizes a little better, but as I said, it is not SOLID like the Rogue Trader RPG

[exetus]

The disagreement on the forgeships is not because it doesn't make sense, Telanicus, it's because the Marines Malevolent are described in everything that we've sene of them, as a Chapter that has to scrounge for their materiel. This was evidenced in the book Salamander where Captain Vinyar and his crew are all about salvaging and using it to replenish their Chapter's lack of supplies. A forgeship (or two) would shatter that image.

[Iron Lord]

Battle Barges are 4 kilometers long, not 4 miles. Since a kilometer is about 0.62 miles, 4 kilometers would be about 2.5 miles.

 

Where are you getting that figure from- considering that Lunars and Tyrants are 5 km long (Rogue Trader)?

 

Some of the oldest sources I've seen have given 10 miles as the length of a battle barge (the Ultramarines ship in the first story in the collection Into The Maelstrom).

 

While this is probably too much, 4 km seems far too little.

[Ecritter]

8+ miles long for a BB is the figure I've always found.

[MalevolentPixel]

Great Critique ^^, im not so well versed in old imperial vesells though ><

 

The forge ships are all wrong. As Salamander showed us, they have to scrimp and salvage and steal everything

The disagreement on the forgeships is not because it doesn't make sense, Telanicus, it's because the Marines Malevolent are described in everything that we've sene of them, as a Chapter that has to scrounge for their materiel

 

Unanimous. Forge ships will be Dropped.

Change in Tactica for 'Building' the idea of this Fleet. doing it peice by peice.

 

Cutting on the Barges and Space Marine fleet.

I make it 2 Battle Barges

4-5 Strike Cruisers of various design

and One hunter Class Frigate

 

Extreme cuts here, This seems enough to create a 'Problem' for a space bound chapter, they need to be 'Space bound' but maybe a little cramped so to say, the rest of the fleet would be made up of other Achaic vellsels, Boarded ships. ect.

 

Also, for the Large Ship as a 'Home Ship' it obviously needs to be Big. but what about a Hulk? what are Hulks? and can they be brought back from their demise of wandering through space? all i know is that they may be full of nasty Genestealers. Orks use them for space travel on oppertunity, and they are, huge?

 

you can always give them warships from the old classes that form the basis of the Chaos fleets -- Murders and Devastations, etc -- to represent old ships they've salvaged or even renegade ships they've taken as prizes after boarding assaults.

 

Im interested but i dont know enough about them yet, would it be good to ask about the chaos PA forums?

 

Wont start on the Imperial ships jsut yet tough ^^

[Arkangilos]

The disagreement on the forgeships is not because it doesn't make sense, Telanicus, it's because the Marines Malevolent are described in everything that we've sene of them, as a Chapter that has to scrounge for their materiel. This was evidenced in the book Salamander where Captain Vinyar and his crew are all about salvaging and using it to replenish their Chapter's lack of supplies. A forgeship (or two) would shatter that image.

 

Oh, well then in that case, I agree :P