Who can deep strike?

[Quixus]

There are two kinds of units, those that have wargear or rules that allow deep strike deployment (TDA, jump packs etc. ) and those that don't.

 

The former group may always deep strike since their wargear does not restrict it to certain missions.

 

Now Morollan states in another thread that the other units cannot deep strike unless they are allowed by a rule. I agree on that.

 

We do not agree however that the mission special rule "Deep Strike" does exactly that.

 

If it didn't, the mission special rule, would essentially become a non-rule, since no additional units would be allowed to deep strike. The rule book goes even as far as saying that it does not matter where you get the deep striking capability from (wargear, unit specific rule or mission rule), but Morollan does not see that.

 

What do you think?

[Morollan]

I set out my position in the other thread. A unit that has the Deep Strike special rule may deploy using Deep Strike if the mission allows it. Some units with the Deep Strike special rule can deploy via Deep Strike even if the mission does not allow it. No unit without the Deep Strike special rule can deploy via Deep Strike unless the mission specifically says that it can (eg, Planetstrike games).

[Quixus]

A unit that has the Deep Strike special rule may deploy using Deep Strike if the mission allows it.

Name one, that has this restriction, please.

[Morollan]

A unit that has the Deep Strike special rule may deploy using Deep Strike if the mission allows it.

Name one, that has this restriction, please.

 

I think you're going to have to clarify what you mean. Name one what?

[Quixus]

Name one unit that has the Deep Strike rule, but is only allowed to use that form of deployment, if the Mission has the deep strike special rule as well.

[Morollan]

Name one unit that has the Deep Strike rule, but is only allowed to use that form of deployment, if the Mission has the deep strike special rule.

 

All of them that do not specify that they can Deep Strike even when the mission special rules do not allow it.

 

Furthermore, Pg 11, Planetstrike:

Several types of unit have the option to Deep Strike into the thick of things. Infantry, Jump Infantry, Jetbikes and Monstrous Creatures can all Deep Strike in a game of Planetstrike. This is a fundamental difference from usual games of Warhammer 40,000

[JamesI]

No one can deep strike without the deep strike rule.

 

Some units (terminators) can deep strike even if the deep strike rule is not in effect.

 

A normal guy in power armor can not deep strike outside of Planetstrike or some other odd circumstance.

[Morollan]

If you need a further example, Codex Tyranids, pg 54

 

A Mycetic Spore always enters play using the Deep Strike rules, even in missions that do not use these rules.

[dswanick]

Sorry Quixus but Morollan is correct. Read the first sentence of the first paragraph of the Deep Strike special rules:

Some units' special rules allow them to enter play via tunneling, teleporting, flying, or some other extraordinary means.

In order to use Deep Strike, a unit must possess the unit special rule called "Deep Strike". That all three missions in the Basic Rulebook have the mission special rule "Deep Strike" which tells you how to implement the unit special rule doesn't change that.

[Quixus]

While some items' descriptions have the addendum "even if the mission does not allow Deep Striking" others lack just say the user of the item can deploy via deep strike (Jump Packs for instance). So the item from a codex, which trumps the main book, allows an additional form of deployment without conditions, since the description does not say "only if the mission has the deep strike rule". This is essentially the same as the first case.

 

Given the quote from Planetstrike, I doubt that this is the intention of the rules, but the wording is far from clear.

[Morollan]

While some items' descriptions have the addendum "even if the mission does not allow Deep Striking" others lack just say the user of the item can deploy via deep strike (Jump Packs for instance). So the item from a codex, which trumps the main book, allows an additional form of deployment without conditions, since the description does not say "only if the mission has the deep strike rule". This is essentially the same as the first case.

 

Given the quote from Planetstrike, I doubt that this is the intention of the rules, but the wording is far from clear.

 

Sorry but the wording is very clear. If you're in any doubt then just refer to my first post in this thread. That is exactly how the rules work, I promise you.

 

• A unit that has the Deep Strike special rule may deploy using Deep Strike if the mission allows it.
  
• Some units with the Deep Strike special rule can deploy via Deep Strike even if the mission does not allow it.
  
• No unit without the Deep Strike special rule can deploy via Deep Strike unless the mission specifically says that it can (eg, Planetstrike games).
  

[Hellios]

While some items' descriptions have the addendum "even if the mission does not allow Deep Striking" others lack just say the user of the item can deploy via deep strike (Jump Packs for instance). So the item from a codex, which trumps the main book, allows an additional form of deployment without conditions, since the description does not say "only if the mission has the deep strike rule". This is essentially the same as the first case.

 

Given the quote from Planetstrike, I doubt that this is the intention of the rules, but the wording is far from clear.

 

The conditions are still restricted by the normal deepstrike conditions... that is that the mission must allow it... unless the items specifies that it ignores the condition of needing the mission to allow this form of deployment.

[Quixus]

The conditions are still restricted by the normal deepstrike conditions... that is that the mission must allow it... unless the items specifies that it ignores the condition of needing the mission to allow this form of deployment.

I might be blind, but I can't find it in the deep strike rule.

[Alphz]

Don't pretty much all missions have deepstrike special rule now a days anyway? making this a moot point?

[dswanick]

The conditions are still restricted by the normal deepstrike conditions... that is that the mission must allow it... unless the items specifies that it ignores the condition of needing the mission to allow this form of deployment.

I might be blind, but I can't find it in the deep strike rule.

OK, here's the deal. You can only do what the rules allow you to do. So without specific permission you may not Deep Strike. In order to have permission to Deep Strike, you need something allowing it. Let's take, for example, Jump Packs. On Pg.100 of C:SM under Other Equipment, Jump Pack :

Models equipped with jump packs are jump infantry, as described in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. In addition, Space Marines wearing jump packs can be dropped from low-flying Thunderhawk Gunships, using thier jump packs to swoop down on to the battlefield. To represent this they can be kept in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules.

So now our unit has the {Unit Special Rule : Deep Strike}. Now we check the {Mission Special Rule : Deep Strike} as outlined on Pg.95 of the BRB.

Some units' special rules allow them to enter play via tunneling, teleporting, flying, or some other extraordinary means.

{snip}

Note that some units always have the option to deep strike, while others may only arrive in this way in missions where the deep strike special rule is used. Of course all the standard missions presented here do use deep strike, so normally you won't need to worry about this distinction.

So long as the mission allows deep strike (all the BRB missions do) your Jump Pack equipped units may enter by deep strike. Now look at the Terminator Armor rules, Pg.102 of C:SM :

{snip}

Any model wearing Terminator Armor can be teleported onto the battlefield. They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules, even if it is not part of the mission being played.

So in a non-BRB mission that does not allow deep strike, Jump Pack equipped models may not deep strike, while Terminator Armor equipped models can.

[Wildfire]

Morollan is correct, unless a unit specifically allows it you may not deep strike with a unit that possesses the deep strike rule unless the mission enables it.

 

Don't pretty much all missions have deepstrike special rule now a days anyway? making this a moot point?

 

If you're only playing the basic missions in the BRB, then yes. But there's all sorts of books out there with different missions (not to mention tourney and player made ones), and some of them do not include "Deep Strike" in their allowed rules.

[KhorneHunter57x]

If you're only playing the basic missions in the BRB, then yes. But there's all sorts of books out there with different missions (not to mention tourney and player made ones), and some of them do not include "Deep Strike" in their allowed rules.

Exactly.

Normal units (e.g. Tactical Marines): No Deep Strike unless the mission gives it to them.

Most Deep Strikers (e.g. Assault Marines): May Deep Strike if the mission says "yes."

'Special' Deep Strikers (e.g. Terminators): May Deep Strike, regardless of mission rules.

 

 

On a related note, if you are playing a mission that forbids reserves altogether, can you still put Terminators (for instance) in reserve and Deep Strike them in? TDA says that it

...may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules, even if it is not part of the mission being played.

Will this override the "no reserves of any kind" restriction that some missions have?

[dswanick]

On a related note, if you are playing a mission that forbids reserves altogether, can you still put Terminators (for instance) in reserve and Deep Strike them in? TDA says that it

...may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules, even if it is not part of the mission being played.

Will this override the "no reserves of any kind" restriction that some missions have?

I would say yes, using the same logic as Deep Strikes. "may always start the game in reserve" says, to me, even if the mission doesn't allow reserves because it is part of a Deep Strike. Although I would say that the reserve must be for the purpose of Deep Striking - no putting a Termi model in reserve because the armor special rule overrides a mission's lack of reserves then walking or outflanking it onto the board.

[Wildfire]

I would say yes. Specific overrides general. Termie armor is more specific than mission perameters.