ShinyRhino Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I'm getting a tad bored with painting blue power armor, and have always wanted to add a unit or two of Sisters to my available options. I'm trying to think of useful and interesting ways to do this for my Marine army. My initial thought was to field a small unit of Seraphim as a tank-killer force. A small 5-strong unit can all be armed with meltabombs, and a couple of inferno pistols. Small enough unit to sneak in and hit things while hugging cover, but enough chances with twin-linked inferno pistols and meltabombs to put the hurt on armor. They'd only generate a single Faith Point, but that could be used to give them 3+ invulnerable saves for a full game turn. Combined with Hit and Run, they might be an annoyance to squadrons of walkers. Can Vanguard do this better, and cheaper? A 5-man Vanguard unit can't get meltaguns, but can buy meltabombs and jump packs. Fancy melee weapons if they like, but that seems to be ramping up the points in a hurry. Second thought would be a huge phalanx of bolter-armed Sisters parked in cover on an objective. One usage of Divine Guidance would produce a nice volley of Rending bolter shots. Anyone use lone Sisters units in their MEQ forces to good effect? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I covered Seras in your other topic but in my opinion they're not the best unit for Marines to ally in. Dominions can be great in a mechanised force (Fast Attack, must be mounted) as they can take 4 flamers. Combined with Divine Guidance and you can really ruin someone's day. I think it's the humble Battle Sister Squad that offers the most to Marines. Cheaper than Marines but identical when shooting - better if you take into account 2 special weapons and the heavy flamer they're a good deal. The only draw back is the increased cost of their Rhino but it evens out if you consider extra armour and smoke (which are worth taking for this reason). A large unit is unwieldy though, I wouldn't take any more than 16 in a squad and their short range effectiveness can be an issue. But if you want a solid objective sitter then they'll do a good job, especially with some melta and flamer to deter enemies. That said such a unit is best kept smaller, you'd probably get better results from spending some more points to get 2 10 girl squads instead. That way you can hold twice the objectives or use one to advance in support if your main force or to break off to engage an enemy unit heading for your objectives. Alternatively take a SoB squad and a Celestian Squad (Elite) as you can take a smaller squad but keep 2 special weapons. You won't have enough faith points to rely on using them, so just treat them as a nice bonus that might happen when you need it most! You can aid in this by taking a Canoness and with martyrdom and then there's always Litanies of Faith for a valuable auto-pass if you like but it depends on how many points you want to spend on allies. Sisters can offer Marines their special weapons and cheaper bodies, but further than that the age of their codex means there isn't much to gain other than fluff/cool factor. When the codex update hits allies will surely be gone completely so it's a fairly moot point at this stage - if you want some then take them while you still can! In case you're interested I once took two separate small Marine and SoB armies and merged them for a larger allied force. All in a normal game with the usual FOC - the toughness of Marines with the extra bodies and shooting from the Sisters proved effective and was completely unexpected. Best of all was how good it looked on the table! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2707896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algesan Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I agree on that you need more than one unit. The minimum I'd take is a Jump Pack Canoness with Seraphim, but I'd try to get 7-8 in that squad. The Canoness should run separately because she kills the Seraphim hit 'n' run. The reason why I say 7-8 is because the VSS allows you to roll three dice and pick two when trying to activate Faith. So you can use both the offensive and defensive powers fairly reliably until you start taking too many losses. Nothing like flaming a squad with 2-3 flamers to ignore cover saves and making all of the wounds AP1. The Canoness is a semi-suicide trick, give her an eviscerator and send her tank hunting. Just remember that depending on who you are fighting, she doesn't have to use the eviscerator in CC, so if a bunch of troops at the same initiative assault you, go for the swings rather than trying to somehow survive a bunch of wounds to use S6 at I1. She gives you two Faith points at start and two more when she dies and the Seraphim need them badly. OTOH, I wouldn't mind fiddling with a Canoness/Celestian retinue (NO VSS) in an Immolator (3 Faith) than either a Dominion or Celestian squad in another Immolator. Both of those could be sitting squads to hold things or assault squads with massive melta/flamer setups. Dominions cost just as much as troops so the only price difference is how many weapons you give them. If you do go with Battle Sister squads, I wouldn't buy their Rhinos, I'd buy a 10 Marine squad, give them a heavy weapon and then combat squad them so you have a fixed firebase part and a assault part. Then shove the Sister squad in their Rhino and let the boys slog forward after politely giving up their seats to the ladies. A double melta or heavy flamer/flamer squad can make good use of the fire point. Better than an assault weapon/heavy weapon combo can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2727889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 If you do go with Battle Sister squads, I wouldn't buy their Rhinos, I'd buy a 10 Marine squad, give them a heavy weapon and then combat squad them so you have a fixed firebase part and a assault part. Then shove the Sister squad in their Rhino and let the boys slog forward after politely giving up their seats to the ladies. A double melta or heavy flamer/flamer squad can make good use of the fire point. Better than an assault weapon/heavy weapon combo can. Requires having first turn, or weathering a full turn's worth of fire though. Can't start the Sisters inside the Marines' dedicated transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2728430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dylan Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Sisters are not really all that cheaper compared to a tac squad, due to having to pay for sargant and inflated cost of options. The true bonus to having them is the equivalent of rending bolters and rending flamers. 5 man terminator squads don't stand a chance and most squads wither under that kind of firepower, two squads will usually kill anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2729224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 At 250pts for a full squad of 20 Sisters with upgrades theyre a steal in a marine army! Seriously, theyre cheaper than scouts and shoot as good as a marine, heavy weapon fire not included. I think the only reason inducted sisters arent a staple unit is the expensive nature of metal sister squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2729260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 At 250pts for a full squad of 20 Sisters with upgrades theyre a steal in a marine army! Seriously, theyre cheaper than scouts and shoot as good as a marine, heavy weapon fire not included. I think the only reason inducted sisters arent a staple unit is the expensive nature of metal sister squads. Indeed, the cost of the models is what's holding me back right now. You can only order in blisters of three from GW, and secondhand models are going for more than retail price right now. I've got plenty of Seraphim now, though. THOSE are cheap. I also nabbed a squad of Repentia for a song, because their rules and points costs are sad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2729651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 The other problem is that you cannot have 2 sisters squad as the only troops as allies. You need to have the 2 troop choices from your own codex and then you can bring additional sisters squads. If they're only 10, you can put them in a (slightly expensive) Rhino, but if they're more than that you have to include a LR to transport them. Or they walk, but then they... walk. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2729700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 The other problem is that you cannot have 2 sisters squad as the only troops as allies.You need to have the 2 troop choices from your own codex and then you can bring additional sisters squads. If they're only 10, you can put them in a (slightly expensive) Rhino, but if they're more than that you have to include a LR to transport them. Or they walk, but then they... walk. A squad of 20 Sisters don't even really have to move. Park them in cover and/or on an objective, and blast anything that gets near. Properly supported by Marine units, little should survive to reach them. 20 power-armored bodies in a single unit is also a tough nut to crack in an Annihilation scenario. Their Achilles Heel is probably the Colossus mortar, and when do you see those on the field? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Exactly, you put them in cover- and you give them a palatine with Litanies of faith, book of st. lucious, and a blessed weapon and inferno pistol, a VSS with a PW+C-M, a Flamer and a Heavy Flamer. If they get hit by a huge mortar round shrug and use the litanies to give them all an invulnerable save for the round. If they dont you can save it to give them rending or some such. Costs about 300pts, and all but gaurantees a safe objective. Park some heavy weapons with them- maybe a dreadnaught or a whirlwind, and watch the enemy break on them like a rock. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dylan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Eh sounds great on paper but sisters fold very easily in combat, you would have to run two of these squads and make sure you keep the squads close together for the books to work. I honestly would just run them in rhinos, they have a huge threat range and even with only 10 sisters MEQ players should be scared of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 What if a just mediocre cc unit reaches them? They won't be able to win most of those hand to hand fights... I see how 20 3+ models are good and that many bolters is really great, but I still think that they're kind of vulnerable. OK they secure an objective for you but you still have to spend your points on 2 additional troop choices to get a legal list, and those 2 troop choices are in most of the cases "the necessary bad". For those points you get much stronger stuff in other FOC slots... Still it's true that you can push those forward then and sacrifice them without the risk that you're being left without scoring units... But still, even if I agree that they're a great scoring unit, I think I can solve it just as good with the obligatory troop choices - and cheaper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 What happens if a mediocre assault unit hits tacticals? All I ever here about is how much trouble they get into in assault..... atleast the sisters have the numbers to take enemies down quicker at range. Babysit them with a Dreadnaught with a decent AT gun, works a treat. I used to run this very squad with my SWs back a few years ago- my Valkyries. Never regretted the extra firebase when I took it. In a C:SM list the other troops choices can be agressively armed tactical squads, or assault scouts. Assault scouts are likewise cheap, and nicely done for their price when they get into combat- givem a chappy and toss them in a landraider- its like a miniature bloodclaw squad, and at the old prices to boot. Or put them in a LSS for some real objective grabbing fun late game. Or you can do what I did the couple times I took them with C:SM- bring the tactical squads anyways and make a solid wall of bolt shells, with rhino mounted tac squads in case I need some late turn mobility to grab objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'd rather have 14-15 basic sisters in a CC than 10 basic tacs, for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 OK I agree that they're at least numerous and regular tac marines suck big time in cc. Maybe the problem is that I've been playing with the BT dex in the last couple of months and gosh how different those troops are! BP&CCW, preferred enemy. I don't even need 10 of them, 8 is enough... tac marines seem really pathetic compared to... the basic troop in any other sm dex. :D Still I've started to think about how I could incorporate sisters in my army and indeed if they sit behind on an objective I can rush forward in Rhinos with my crusader squads to do some slapping and don't have to fear that they die and I lose my scoring units. I see great potential in the flamers the sisters can take combined with divine guidance, as they automatically hit, so you just have to hope for 6'es. I don't want to be very off-topic, but this is the list I came up with for 1850: HQ: emperor’s champ w/ aacnmto - 140p ELITES: 10 termies, 7 TH&SS, 3 PoLC - 400p 5 termies, 2 cyclones, 1 chainfist, tankhunters - 270p FAST ATTACK: 2 land speeder typhoon - 140p 2 land speeder typhoon - 140p 2 land speeder typhoon - 140p TROOPS: 8 initiate, 1 PF, 1 MG, 6 BP&CCW, all frags - 161p rhino w/ smoke - 53p 5 initiate, 4 BP&CCW, 1 MG, all frags - 95p rhino w/ smoke - 53p 20 sisters, 2 FL, vet w/ CFlam - 256p The girls are sitting back with the cyclone squad in area terrain or in a cozy hug to give each other cover. Alternatively the cyclonists can be swapped to 2 combi-preds, but then the girls would remain without bodyguards. The initiates rush forward to block and to kick some arse, the assault terminators... well they do what they're for. 3x2 Typhoons are standard in my army for years now, so no questions there... I kind of like this, hmm.. ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Short of Ork Kommandos or Wolf Scouts, I'm not majorly worried about melee units reaching my theoretical Sisters. I've got the remainder of an army to crack open inbound enemy transports. Once the meat is out of the shell, there isn't a ton of stuff that can weather 20-40 bolter shots resembling anything close to intact :). Oddly enough, the idea was originally supposed to be my combined Templar/Sisters crusade force. Core Templar army, with small attachments of Sisters units. Templar Troops do the choppy, Sisters do the shooty. I just never found the time to build a Templar Crusade. Too much Ultramarine to finish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 If anyone would like to have allied Battle Sisters in his SM force, there's still time until the end of this year... then farewell to the last kind of allies too. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 If anyone would like to have allied Battle Sisters in his SM force, there's still time until the end of this year... then farewell to the last kind of allies too. :) Indeed. Thankfully, the models I'm slowly collecting will make up the beginnings of my Sistyers army when the old Allies rules are phased out for good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Assuming sisters hit at the end of the year, instsead of well into next year for the 6th ed box set. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2730972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Assuming sisters hit at the end of the year, instsead of well into next year for the 6th ed box set. Aye. Some signs are pointing at a Sisters versus Chaos Marine starter kit, simply because the multipart Sisters sculpts are giving the sculptor fits, and are more viable as plug-n-play models. Of course, now we're straying out of Tactica...:lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2731069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 did someone mention plastic SOB? :sweat: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2731075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I heard BT vs. something as 6th starter set... /OFF Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2731137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I was told it was non-marine vs non-xenos and not a 5th edition codex. That leaves SOB and Daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2731403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattison Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Anyhow Sisters will be hard to resist. :lol: Such a flavourful army, and I REALLY hope that they won't ruin the fluff and taste as they did in the DH-GK transition (my opinion). The current WH codex is one of the few I read a lot simply for fun, the images, and the whole atmosphere is just so unique. I'd love to field an army with these insane units, Repentia, Arcoflagellants etc., but it's just not viable at all at the moment. Let's hope for the best. :P /OFF Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2731434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I was told it was non-marine vs non-xenos and not a 5th edition codex. That leaves SOB and Daemons. Depends on if they're counting CSM as marines, even if that's true. Or something completely new. Maybe an Inquisition book? :cuss Hey, I can dream! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226071-folding-in-some-allied-sisters-of-battle/#findComment-2731683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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