Drachnon Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 So I was discussing this with my friend this evening. We were looking at how well a grey knight storm squad with a grandmaster with both rad and blind grenades would do against a horde of tyranids charging them. At which point he claims that the only the model(s) charging the grad master would lose the extra attack because the grand master is not part of the squad in close combat and therefor the grenades would only work against the models getting into base to base contact with the grand master. While this seems logical at first glance there's a few problems I personally have problems with: 1. Even though the grand master counts as a separate unit he doesn't detach from the squad, if this was the case all IC's that would give bonuses in close combat to squads they join would suddenly become useless. So the grandmaster and his defensive grenades are part of the squad IMO. 2. While the description of defensive grenades says it works on 'models' charging a unit with defensive grenades I see no reason why it would only work on models in base to base contact. If this was the case and you have 1 model in close combat while there are 5 more within 2" those 5 models wouldn't be affected. 3. Isn't the whole point of the IC's with defensive grenades that they give it to the squads? If it was only for the model itself it seems like a waste of points. So does anyone know a final ruling on this? Or more arguments for/against the grenades working. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Works on the squad yes. Once he leaves the squad, no. He's his own separate entity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brovius Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well, if that's the case, the next time your Tyranid-playing friend attaches a Tyranid Prime to a unit of Warriors, you get to painfully misinform him that the Warriors aren't WS5 anymore, because they are seperate units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well, if that's the case, the next time your Tyranid-playing friend attaches a Tyranid Prime to a unit of Warriors, you get to painfully misinform him that the Warriors aren't WS5 anymore, because they are seperate units Unless the rule for Primes effect the Warriors specifically, which it does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 the IC is only a separate unit when determining who gets attacks allocated to them. it is still a single unit that is assaulting/being assaulted, the grades still work as a whole. now the difficult question comes about if a unit assaults/is assaulted by an unattached IC with blind grenades and a unit without; then things get messy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozybonza Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 the IC is only a separate unit when determining who gets attacks allocated to them. it is still a single unit that is assaulting/being assaulted, the grades still work as a whole. now the difficult question comes about if a unit assaults/is assaulted by an unattached IC with blind grenades and a unit without; then things get messy. Pretty sure the IC automatically joins the unit in that case, but it's still a concern if, for example, there is a squad with IC/Rads in addition to a squad without IC/Rads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 the IC is only a separate unit when determining who gets attacks allocated to them. it is still a single unit that is assaulting/being assaulted, the grades still work as a whole. now the difficult question comes about if a unit assaults/is assaulted by an unattached IC with blind grenades and a unit without; then things get messy. Pretty sure the IC automatically joins the unit in that case, but it's still a concern if, for example, there is a squad with IC/Rads in addition to a squad without IC/Rads. ICs can only join units during the movement phase. any other time, they just happen to be nearby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozybonza Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 the IC is only a separate unit when determining who gets attacks allocated to them. it is still a single unit that is assaulting/being assaulted, the grades still work as a whole. now the difficult question comes about if a unit assaults/is assaulted by an unattached IC with blind grenades and a unit without; then things get messy. Pretty sure the IC automatically joins the unit in that case, but it's still a concern if, for example, there is a squad with IC/Rads in addition to a squad without IC/Rads. ICs can only join units during the movement phase. any other time, they just happen to be nearby. IC's can only intentionally join a unit during the movement phase - there is something in the assault section of the BRB that deals specifically with ICs charging into an already-going combat (or maybe it's IC + seperate squad charging at the same time?) and them automatically joining the squad. I don't have it with me so I can't look it up right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Even if he wasent part of the sqaud for the purposes of this in CC his grenades would still go off most of the time. The grenades affect any enemy units charging or being charged by the dude carrying them, i.e. if the GM or whoever gets into B2B with 1 man from a squad he will count as being in CC with the whole squad as any unit would. Hence -1T and no bonous attack which any other squads involved in the same CC can benefit from! Are some people suggesting that the entire squad would count as having the special grenades? That could become important if for whatever reason the charachter dident make it into base contact and concequently couldent take part in the fight (or for that matter only touches one enemy unit in a multiassault). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 IC's can only intentionally join a unit during the movement phase - there is something in the assault section of the BRB that deals specifically with ICs charging into an already-going combat (or maybe it's IC + seperate squad charging at the same time?) and them automatically joining the squad. I don't have it with me so I can't look it up right now. there was nothing in my readings that had anything like that in either section; if you find it feel free to point it out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226083-blind-grenades-and-ics/#findComment-2707704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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