Fighting Tyranids with C:SM

[Ultraboy]

For as long as I've been playing 40k I've only fought these guys on two occasions and didn't fare so well (One battle was with my Iron Warriors and the other had standard tac squads and Captain). I got around to getting the codex and I must say I'm a little daunted in facing them again. I'm in the middle of of assembling my bike army but I have enough models I've collected in the past two years to change my list up (Including three full Sternguard and Assault Terminator Squads). So in short:

 

1-What do Nids hate?

2-What units work? Which don't?

3-Considering we have a low model count when compared to Nids, what tactics are recommended?

4-What unit(s) do Nids players most likely run?

 

I appreciate any help or advice.

[greatcrusade08]

alot of people moan about how the nid dex has become next to useless, i dont agree at all.

 

the nid dex is now more varied than ever and you rarely find two armies the same.. some have lots of MCs others are critter hordes.. and of course a mix of the two.

 

IMO the two best units for countering nids are

thunderfire cannons and

sternguard

[raganrkob]

Agree on the sternguard. Also lots of missile launchers are good to deal with MCs, speacially tervigons and such that have armour of 3+, snipers help a lot as well, with the 4+ to wound and rending. Flamers are great against, termagants, hormagants and genestealers

 

I've never used a thunderfire cannon, but my predator with autocannon and heavy bolters always shines, specially versus warriors since it denies their armour.

 

Tyranids are fast, but cover is your friend! They don't have granades so if the assault through cover they strike last. That let's you kill some before taking the hit :tu:

[greatcrusade08]

thunderfires are great against infantry.. with T3 hordes i use the S5 shot that ignores cover saves, it has an AP of 6 too so you throw down 4 templates and only need 2's to kill things like gaunts and gargoyles.

it also has a range of 60" :tu:

[meatball]

One of the nicer units that can be used against nids is the Landspeeder typhoon. Very good against little nids with frag missles and HB shooting all the time, and can even put a wound on larger beasties and ID warriors. Not to mention that it can always outmaneuver tyranids. If you own landspeeders maybe it is worth taking three of typhoons, hug cover, stay back and shoot each turn.

[Ultraboy]

One of the nicer units that can be used against nids is the Landspeeder typhoon. Very good against little nids with frag missles and HB shooting all the time, and can even put a wound on larger beasties and ID warriors. Not to mention that it can always outmaneuver tyranids. If you own landspeeders maybe it is worth taking three of typhoons, hug cover, stay back and shoot each turn.

 

They're favorite Fast Attack choice and it was on the top of my list against Nids.

 

 

Followup Questions:

-What HQs are recommend?

-I agree Sternguards are awesome but what's the best method of deployment? Drop Pods are great but after their initial hellfire volley they struggle.

[MagicMan]

Very very few of our MC have higher than a 3+ Armour save.

 

 

I think its just the Tyrannofex (which you won't see often, it doesn't have a model) or the Hive Tyrant with an upgrade.

 

 

So many many missile launchers/plasma guns.

 

 

 

 

And make a choice early on, either shoot the small ones who want to tie you up in combat long enough for the big ones to arrive, or kill the big ones which are the armies real killers. You should be able to tell fairly accurately by the guys army composition.

 

Oh and start sniping those lone zoanthropes pretending to be fire support and knock out the synapse web.

 

 

Another good plan is to sit in a neat flower garden/low shrubs because only one unit in the Nid Dex has frag grenades, and thats the Carnifex (which is pretty badly overcosted, you won't see many of them.) Some nids do get lashwhips, though, which bring your initiative down to 1, but you can spot these and react accordingly.

[DarkGuard]

In addition to the above, if you're using any non-bike models stick them in transports. Nids only replies to Rhinos are either CC, where you can outrun them, or Hive Guard, T-Fexes or Zoanthropes. Hive Guard are the best of them, with 2 shots each at S8 and the ability to ignore most cover and shoot round it, with BS 4 as well. But they only have the range of a boltgun, so spend a turn or two setting up. The T-Fex does have a big gun, but only average BS, while the Zoanthrope have to make about 5 rolls before it can see if it blew up a tank. So in short, Nids find it hard against mech without using Hive Guard spam, so take advantage of them.

 

As for your own weapons, TFCs, Typhoons, flamers, missile launchers, plasma, Sternguard, all of them are good options. As for a HQ, maybe a Libby for his hood to block Nid powers, and as long as you're in a transport then Shadow of the Warp doesn't effect you for some bizarre reason. A Captain may be a good shout if you want a decent close combat unit to tie them up.

 

Also, as MagicMan has said, target priority is crucial. Best thing IMO is to try and wipe out or neutralise IB-Feed units, which don't need synapse, then knock out the synapse so that the Lurk creatures do silly things. Of course, you can always use Feed to your advantage pulling raged units out of line, but it's riskier.

[Hellios]

Hq... Librarian with psychic hood... various powers can be useful... depends on what you want to do... I might suggest Nullzone just for things like Zoanthropes and the Doom which you can instagib with missiles... or drown with bolterfire... making them reroll invulnerable saves makes them that much more likely to fail and save you some shots to kill other things before thy get near...

 

Ok now weapon loadouts... Missile launchers are great... High S and AP3 means you can wound and ignore the saves on most things so enough of these will take those suckers down and S8 is also enough to instant gib most (but not all!) of the medium nids. Typhoons as always are great... a fine choice as well for tactical squads (maybe sitting in rhinos?) to pop away early in the game before using a flamer up close.

 

Now the biggest issue is special weapons... the flamers use is obvious... However if you want to hunt things bigger than gaunts you have to make a choice... Plasma... matches up with the bolter low AP good S but not enough to instagib medium nids... melta has less range but again instagibs most medium nids... personally I like the plasma because depending on what you are doing you might get 4 or so plasma shots without much trouble but you may only get one meltashot.... so even if you cause 2 or 3 wounds from that shot by gibbing something... you might well be able to do that with multiple plasma anyway... The other advantage of plasma is that you don't care when something becomes T5 or greater... just plug away as you would at T4... so the greater number of shots is a bonus there...

 

Nids have a bit of trouble with vehicles (well unless they get up close) so I would advise taking them (transports or otherwise). Also try and keep your guys buy or near cover... scary bugs are not so scary when they go after you and you find they go squish pretty easy...5 genestealers are nasty but nowhere near as bad as 10.... Oh and if you shoot them before they charge that helps as well <_<

 

Oh and remember to target the nids synergy... things like tervigons who are going to boost units of venomthropes... figure out the most cost effective way of killing them (taking into account what saves will be given by what) and then execute your fire plan! If I'm honest a lot of SM units are pretty good... you mainly want to avoid combat and missiles, plasma and flamers tend to do whatever the boltguns have failed to deal with!

[Grey Mage]

A Whirlwind is always a welcome addition- indirect fire can be helpful, but mostly its just great for trashin mobs of hormagaunts and genestealers.

 

I suggest forming up a gunline and readying counter-assault units. Nids as an army need to close into assault to be truely effective, and you should have two turns of bolterfire to cleanse the small ones and 3-4 turns of heavy weapons fire to take down the large ones.

 

Use cover to your advantage whenever possible- almost nothing in the nid codex has offensive grenades, so making them go last is very easy- and very devastating in many cases.

[Mysticaria]

+1 for missile launchers. They are good in all-comers armies, but really excel against nids. There are literally only one or two models that nids can even deploy that a missile launcher wouldn't be one of your first choice weapons for shooting at.

 

Large bugs hate when you wound on 2+ with AP3

Medium bugs hate being instakilled... sucks to lose a 40-50 point model to a "free" krak missile.

Small bugs hate AP5 blast templates

 

and yeah, as a nid player... the new book is really not that strong all things considered. There are serious weaknesses that can be exploited by the marine player. As mentioned Synapse, lack of frag grenades, instakill, lack of 2+ saves, lack of invul saves, lack of anti-armor shooting, easy kill points, unfavorable psychic ability FAQs, etc... In my experience, it takes a really good player to be very effective with this version of nids.

 

-Myst

[Brother Captain Ed]

Why doesn't Shadow in the Warp work if you're in a transport? Is this in the FAQ or something?

[DarkGuard]

Why doesn't Shadow in the Warp work if you're in a transport? Is this in the FAQ or something?

 

Yup, they FAQed it a while ago. Probably the worst FAQ they've made IMO. In addition to this they ruled that the Mawloc's Terror from the Deep rule gives cover saves and that a Tyranid Prime, which is an IC, cannot join a unit in a Mycetic Spore even if there is room. That's like saying our psychic hood doesn't work if opposing psyker is in a transport. Or that our ICs can't join units in Drop Pods. IMO it's that FAQ that truly killed off Nids as a competitive force.

[Darius Macab]

IMHO: the Tyranid Codex can be compeditive and can be very hard to beat.

 

however it does take a very good player to do it. for a long time the best player at my FLGS ran an MC heavy Nid list. he only recently lost (first time i can remember) to Space Puppies due to some very bad rolling. (60 genestealer attacks and no rends :lol: )

 

DM

[templargdt]

I find that a heavy flamer or two on a land speeder has been invaluable in fighting Tyranids. Missile Launchers are also great.

[Cameron Magnus]

In my most recent game last night at 2500 points I took some B&C advice myself threw in some missile launchers. I also ran my typhoon squadron with heavy bolters.

 

My fire base was a five man ML Devastator squad, a thunder fire cannon and some shooty terminators with cyclone launchers. In the first turn my opponents warriors and primes which he typically uses as his spearhead was eliminated by the typhoons. The thunder fire brought one of his gaunt squads down to three and the devastators rocked his Zoanthropes leaving him with only one.

 

In turn two the land raider and typhoons crushed his two tyrant guards and shooting tyrant. From that point he conceded that the game was decided as his reinforcements did not show but we kept playing any way.

 

The missile launchers in such high quantities and instead of one each in tactical squads will allow you to concentrate the strength 8 hits for some instant kills and can defeat most every save of his monstrous creatures. Using the frags on the little guys should score you at least 6 or seven hits on his horde units and even better if they are not in cover.

 

MVP goes to the typhoons. During the game they fired their missiles every turn and were racing about in my deployment zone to get shots off denying the enemy cover. He could not sneak around terrain or hide behind any forward units.

 

Point I'm trying to make is missiles in any platform and preferably on typhoons. A big thumbs up for the thunder fire though too.

[DarkGuard]

Poor Tyranid player, I'd hate to go against that sort of list with my Nids. I'd hate to go up against my Space Marine list with Nids to be fair.

 

MVP goes to the typhoons. During the game they fired their missiles every turn and were racing about in my deployment zone to get shots off denying the enemy cover. He could not sneak around terrain or hide behind any forward units.

 

I have found this to be very true in a lot of recent games. These guys can destroy anything, whole squads have vanished under a flurry of frag missiles, MEQ units have ran away from crippling losses from krak missiles, and tanks have been blown sky high. Still have to use them against Nids, but I know that they would be pivotal to any strategy against them. MLs are probably the best weapons to use against Nids as kraks deal with MCs and Warrior type creatures, while frags handle the smaller stuff. And one of the best places to put MLs is on Typhoons, with their mobility, and the heavy bolter backing up their frag missiles, plus cheapish points cost making them fantastically cost-effective.

[Mysticaria]

Yep... like I said earlier... there are only a couple units in the entire Nid army that you would want anything besides a missile launcher. And, with so many people 'spamming' missile launchers nowdays it is challenging for Nids to win. They really need to adapt because the wrong nid army going against that many missiles is just brutal. They pretty much can't take warriors or shrikes in this environment. Even Tervigons, Carnifexen, and Trygons can go down fast to the right amount of missile fire.

 

By the way, Shooty termies and typhoons are an excellent core to go against most nid armies. Lots of instakilling goodness there with plenty of and anti-horde power. This battle report made me smile.

 

-Myst