Tactical help with this list

[nurglephill]

Many many thanks go to Squirrel who helped me work out this army list in the list section :P

 

So this is my 1500pt list:

 

HQ

 

Space Marine Captain, relic blade storm shield: 140

 

Troops

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Melta gun, multi melta, power fist & combi weapon. Rhino: 245pts

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, flamer, Missile Launcher, power fist & combi weapon. Rhino: 240pts

 

Elite

 

10 Terminators, 2 cyclone missile launchers, 2 chainfists: 470pts

 

5 Sternguard, 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi melta rhino: 195pts

 

Fast Attack

 

Landspeeder Squadron: 3 speeders, 3 multimelta, 3 heavy flamers: 210pts

 

total: 1500pts

 

This is a list for a battle I have been challenged to fight by a friend of mine on a another forum, he plays a LOT more than I do...as in fact do most people...so the ass kicking I am about to get will be a very public one! Which is why I am here and why, with Squirrels help, I have gone for a competitive list over a fluffy one for the first time in my life. Now I just need some advice on the best way to play this list :)

 

My thinking is to us the Melta tactical squad and sternguard (with captain) to rush and take command of the centre of the battle field. I am hoping that the melta will scare him a little/enough to effect how he moves his armour etc. They will of course be a target so I was planing on leaving them inside the rhino until it is either safe to get out, sensible to because I need some bolter rounds on a target or the Rhino has died. The terminators....tricky...but my thinking is walk them and fire up one flank depending on the cover available. The speeders are (I think) probably the best way to field multimeltas as they are most likely to get into range to use them. I consider them a suicide squad and will zoom them into his back field (perhaps from reserves?) and focus solely on his tanks.

 

Those are my thoughts but I would be delighted to hear the thoughts of people with much more experience than I. I am also reading the 'Killhammer' posts.....fascinating stuff. Really has opened my eyes to a whole new hobby.

 

Ahh, yes last thing you need to know. This is a pure Rogue Trader era army, which means if the model wasn't around in those days I can't have it.

[DarkGuard]

Looks good to me, got plenty of redundancy there. I do worry about the vehicles, you've only got 5 and they're all light. Normally heavy vehicles are handy because they force your opponent to shoot at them rather than your light vehicles, but regardless this should work fine.

 

Just a couple of things, I'd suggest putting all the MM/HF Speeders in different slots. Makes them harder to kill and lets you threaten multiple targets and converge to take out one. Also, I'd swap the MM and ML around on the Tactical squads, and make sure the combi-weapons are the same as their specials (so ML,MG,c-MG and MM,F,c-F). Reason being is that the MM complements the flamer better turning it into a unit that can control the midfield against a variety of targets, while with the meltagun squad you'll be moving to attack tanks, meaning you'll rarely if ever fire both meltagun and multi-melta at the same time. Better to take the missile launcher to give that squad a ranged option for when you're on an objective.

 

Otherwise, it looks good, sounds like you've got a decent plan, so I can't say much except good luck!

[ShinyRhino]

Looks like a pretty solid list, overall.

You do indeed want to split the Landspeeders into three different units. The MM/HF loadout is a close support platform, which opens it up to return small arms fire. Speeders are actually more durable against glancing hits (which small arms most often achieve on Speeders) when alone than when squadroned. The three separate speeders also requires multiple units to fire at them to knock them out of the sky.

 

Which combi weapons are on your sergeants? You have to pick one when you make the list. With that loadout of special weapons, I'd probably match the combi to the special in the squad.

 

Other than that, it's going to all be about how you maneuver and react to your opponent. That depends entirely on the board setup, mission played, and your opponent's army.

[nurglephill]

Many many thanks for the advice!

 

I have made the changes suggested and I confess I had thought the best combo for a multi melta was a melta gun..it seemed...obvious. However your suggestions make more sense. Like I said I am a bit crap Hehehehe.

 

I confess to feeling a little proud that my tactical idea sounds, in principle at least, sound :) :D

 

So the last little change:

 

HQ

 

Space Marine Captain, relic blade storm shield: 140

 

Troops

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Flamer, multi melta, power fist & combi flamer. Rhino: 245pts

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Melta gun, Missile Launcher, power fist & combi melta. Rhino: 240pts

 

Elite

 

10 Terminators, 2 cyclone missile launchers, 2 chainfists: 470pts

 

5 Sternguard, 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi melta rhino: 195pts

 

Fast Attack

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer: 210pts

 

total: 1500pts

 

Many thanks :)

 

Feel free to add more thoughts

 

Phill

[Mysticaria]

Do you have a plan for those powerfists? They could easily be extra sternguard marines. Also, why the captain as HQ? is that a fluff choice? What squad is he going with all equipped for close combat like that? Seems like a libby would be more useful in this army, either bare-bones with shooting power and null zone to support the sternguard, or possibly in TDA with the termies taking gate/nullzone. You could easily save 40 points here, and with the 50 points from the powerfists now you've got enough for a predator or something. Or... you could even drop one MM/HF speeder and a tactical combi-melta to add a pair of dakka predators. That would really give you some armor to hide behind and all you lost was one speeder and some upgrades. I know that's probably more suggestions than you were looking for, but the main point is just think about if all those upgrades are really what you want. You might be able to cut 90+ points without losing any effectiveness at all.

 

What army are you going to play against? Is this "all-comers"?

 

-Myst

[nurglephill]

Do you have a plan for those powerfists? They could easily be extra sternguard marines. Also, why the captain as HQ? is that a fluff choice? What squad is he going with all equipped for close combat like that? Seems like a libby would be more useful in this army, either bare-bones with shooting power and null zone to support the sternguard, or possibly in TDA with the termies taking gate/nullzone. You could easily save 40 points here, and with the 50 points from the powerfists now you've got enough for a predator or something. Or... you could even drop one MM/HF speeder and a tactical combi-melta to add a pair of dakka predators. That would really give you some armor to hide behind and all you lost was one speeder and some upgrades. I know that's probably more suggestions than you were looking for, but the main point is just think about if all those upgrades are really what you want. You might be able to cut 90+ points without losing any effectiveness at all.

 

What army are you going to play against? Is this "all-comers"?

 

-Myst

 

Many thanks for the thoughts Mysticaria.

 

I will be facing either: Squats (using who knows what 'dex) Death guard or Space Marines. So likely a Power Armoured army.

The captain is not for fluff reasons, my thinking was the sternguard with heavy flamers are likely to be assaulted or need to assault and the captain would be a good addition to help them have a bit more punch. The storm shield could help with those pesky melta shots too. The power fists are also a 'threat' to anything wanting to charge in and they give me the ability to hurt a dreadnought he might use to stop my melta shots by assaulting me.

At least that was MY thinking....but you make some very interesting points!

 

So, do you think the power fists are worthless?

Would losing a speeder (which is likely my best anti tank unit) and replacing them with a dakka pred...(what is that exactly? Autocannon and HB's I assume??) be wise?

[DarkGuard]

I will be facing either: Squats (using who knows what 'dex) Death guard or Space Marines. So likely a Power Armoured army.

The captain is not for fluff reasons, my thinking was the sternguard with heavy flamers are likely to be assaulted or need to assault and the captain would be a good addition to help them have a bit more punch. The storm shield could help with those pesky melta shots too. The power fists are also a 'threat' to anything wanting to charge in and they give me the ability to hurt a dreadnought he might use to stop my melta shots by assaulting me.

At least that was MY thinking....but you make some very interesting points!

 

So, do you think the power fists are worthless?

Would losing a speeder (which is likely my best anti tank unit) and replacing them with a dakka pred...(what is that exactly? Autocannon and HB's I assume??) be wise?

 

Power fists aren't worthless. They are just not cost effective in the hands of a Tactical squad. A Tactical squad's main strength is in shooting, that's where their damage comes from. Assault isn't their strong point. Now with that idea it would seem that a power fist could remember that. I mean, 2/3 attacks at S8 ignoring armour saves. Sounds good doesn't it?

 

However, it isn't. These couple of attacks are at WS4, so the vast majority of units you're hitting will be on 4s. So you can expect one hit. So that's one kill per turn. Now against assault specialists this isn't enough, they won't care. Against enemy's that you outclass in assault, you don't need the power fist anyway then. The only way it helps is in killing characters, knocking the last wound off an MC, or Dreads in combat. All of these are covered by ranged weapon options which are also cheaper and more likely to hit. For this niche role, the power fist is not worth 25pts IMO.

 

However, for other units, like Assault squads and Command squads, a power fist is essential to ensure they can cope with anything in assault. Sternguard also benefit from one as they aren't that bad in combat anyway and will get attention, so you might as well chuck a power fist in there for that unit you know is going to be in assault.

 

As for the dakka Pred, I think you could spare a MM/HF if you wanted to add one. You've still got two more of them, plus 3 combi-meltas with the Sternguard in a Rhino, a MM on the flamer Tactical squad and a meltagun/combi-melta combo in another Rhino Tactical squad, you'll be fine.

[Mysticaria]

Darkguard pretty much nailed it. Lots of people like powerfists, but I tend to think that a single powerfist on a unit that isn't very good at combat isn't going to make that much of a difference most times. When you are winning, the fist just makes you win more. When you are losing, usually it just lets you take a couple extra guys with you when you go... Every once in a while it makes a difference, but its personal opinion on whether those occasions are worth 25 points.

 

I love your 10-man terminator unit. This is probably my favorite squad in all of warhammer right now. Once you start thinking about how they can work together with your army, you can see that you already have 10 powerfists in the army. Do you need to pay 50 points for 2 more? If you use your tactical squads as fire-support near the termies (i.e. keep the termies in range to assault whatever gets at your tacticals) you shouldn't have to worry about taking fists in them since you'll have a lot of fists standing by. If you are worried about that dreadnaught.... well, if all your melta misses, the termies with chainfists won't. Also, don't forget you have rhinos... seems like a longshot for a dread to tie up one of your tactical squads in combat.

 

Finally, with your captain loadout the way it is, with him in the sterngauard and those guys all thinking about being in combat... I'd want more than 5 guys there if possible. If you wanted to take powerfists, seems like the unit aiming for close combat would be a better place. A small change you could make would be to drop the fists on the tactical squads and add a sternguard marine with a powerweapon. That actually increases your army model count by one, adds a little more punch to the Captain's unit, increases the squads wound allocation possibilities, and doesn't take big modelling changes.

 

-Myst

[nurglephill]

OK I took out the two power fists from the tac squads and a speeder. I spent the 120 pts on 3 sternguard with 3 power weapons for a bit of added CC might. I could of course take a Pred instead.

The one concern I have is everything is fast except the termies who will have to walk which means all those power fists will be wasted for at least two turns and they would be easy to avoid. Unless I can somehow 'guide' his units to them by using my other units to limit where he can go. Which SOUNDS great, but being REALLY new to playing this is something I am not sure how to achieve LOL

 

Still, with aggressive play the three rhinos full speed ahead to take the centre ground then to act as movable cover perhaps even for the termies....The issue is after reading the 'killhammer' I will have very little to shoot with in the first turn and maybe even the second turn which will leave my opponents units unscathed.

I am also thinking (having read up on tactica) that combat squading marines doesn't seem wise and rather than leaving a full squad on my home objective to use my whole army to 'go get him' as it seems to be primarily a close fire fight-assault kinda list.

The odd thing about power fists is that being a Death Guard guy (again building an army over playing) I have been convinced of the excellence of a 7 plague marines with 2 plasma guns build without a sergeant let alone one with fist. I think it was more a case of 'these RTB01's MUST use that flamer, that missile launcher and that sergeant with that fist because that was the deal back then....as well as looking FRICKEN cool. :lol: But in this instance I am after competitive! I keep having to remind myself...it is very hard to do I think.

Again, many many thanks for all your advice guys I am REALLY enjoying this side of the hobby. Hell I might even nip to my local store and see if anyone would give a veteran newbie a game with it :)

 

HQ

 

Space Marine Captain, relic blade storm shield: 140

 

Troops

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Flamer, multi melta, combi flamer. Rhino: 215pts

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Melta gun, Missile Launcher, combi melta. Rhino: 215pts

 

Elite

 

10 Terminators, 2 cyclone missile launchers, 2 chainfists: 470pts

 

8 Sternguard, 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi melta, 3 power weapons rhino: 195pts

 

Fast Attack

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer: 140pts

 

total: 1500pts

 

As ever, thoughts welcome :)

[maturin]

I think you're confusing Vanguard and Sternguard, Nurglephil. You can't have 3 power weapons in a Sternguard squad.

 

You mentioned having the Storm Shielded captain help out with melta shots - I don't think that's a good idea, as any melta or krak missile shots you try to stop with the SS will have a 33% chance of instakilling your HQ. Perhaps go with a Librarian, and use the saved points for more mobilility, and perhaps a unit of sniper scouts to hold your own objective while the rest of the army takes off into the enemy's face.

[DarkGuard]

Actually, looking at the Terminators again, I'd say a better HQ would be a Libby in Termy armour and storm shield, with Null Zone and perhaps Vortex of Doom. Or Lysander, whichever you choose. The Termy Libby comes to 140pts so you can do a straight swap there.

 

And you don't need to speed the Rhinos ahead fully. First turn roll them to midfield, and when your Termys move they won't be far behind them. Then keep the Termys moving and the Rhinos stationary until you need to proper attack something.

 

I'm also not sure if you need those Sternguard, now I'm thinking about it. You've got your elite unit, and that's the Terminators. Perhaps a couple of dakka Preds or even combi-preds won't be a bad idea, providing you with some bullet magnets and supporting firepower for your advance, plus increasing the amount of tanks you have by 1, thereby giving you more target saturation. Just a thought.

[nurglephill]

I think you're confusing Vanguard and Sternguard, Nurglephil. You can't have 3 power weapons in a Sternguard squad.

 

You mentioned having the Storm Shielded captain help out with melta shots - I don't think that's a good idea, as any melta or krak missile shots you try to stop with the SS will have a 33% chance of instakilling your HQ. Perhaps go with a Librarian, and use the saved points for more mobilility, and perhaps a unit of sniper scouts to hold your own objective while the rest of the army takes off into the enemy's face.

 

You are completely right! It WAS 2:38 am in my defence LOL I read the options under the Sergeant and thought options for all ^^ I shall ponder the HQ option again....but sadly the scout idea is out as there where no sniper rifle scouts in the Rogue Trader days. I do have 15 scouts but they have boltguns and heavy bolters.

 

 

Actually, looking at the Terminators again, I'd say a better HQ would be a Libby in Termy armour and storm shield, with Null Zone and perhaps Vortex of Doom. Or Lysander, whichever you choose. The Termy Libby comes to 140pts so you can do a straight swap there.

 

And you don't need to speed the Rhinos ahead fully. First turn roll them to midfield, and when your Termys move they won't be far behind them. Then keep the Termys moving and the Rhinos stationary until you need to proper attack something.

 

I'm also not sure if you need those Sternguard, now I'm thinking about it. You've got your elite unit, and that's the Terminators. Perhaps a couple of dakka Preds or even combi-preds won't be a bad idea, providing you with some bullet magnets and supporting firepower for your advance, plus increasing the amount of tanks you have by 1, thereby giving you more target saturation. Just a thought.

 

I do like Lysander (which is saying something as I really HATE the increased use of named characters GW has been relying on lately) but I like him as my 'Chapter Master' and no matter how much I want to win, I cannot sell my soul to do so ;)

What about a libby in Termy armour with Gate? To get my Termies up with the advance of my rhinos? Too risky?

Or what about a Libby in PA with my Sternguard and give him Smite, 4 ap2 shots will really hurt his PA troops!

So, Sternguard AND Termies is too much you think? Can I just check, it says in the codex may 'take' a Cyclone ML...not replace anything. So my cyclones have the storm bolter and power fists too, right?

If I drop the Sternguard I could fit in a 5 termy assault squad. Or as you say some preds. But this list doesn't really have much in the way of CC does it, apart from the Termies I mean and they are a bit slow to be able to react to his threats.

Hmmmm, now I am questioning the list atogether :D

[DarkGuard]

Actually, looking at the Terminators again, I'd say a better HQ would be a Libby in Termy armour and storm shield, with Null Zone and perhaps Vortex of Doom. Or Lysander, whichever you choose. The Termy Libby comes to 140pts so you can do a straight swap there.

 

And you don't need to speed the Rhinos ahead fully. First turn roll them to midfield, and when your Termys move they won't be far behind them. Then keep the Termys moving and the Rhinos stationary until you need to proper attack something.

 

I'm also not sure if you need those Sternguard, now I'm thinking about it. You've got your elite unit, and that's the Terminators. Perhaps a couple of dakka Preds or even combi-preds won't be a bad idea, providing you with some bullet magnets and supporting firepower for your advance, plus increasing the amount of tanks you have by 1, thereby giving you more target saturation. Just a thought.

 

I do like Lysander (which is saying something as I really HATE the increased use of named characters GW has been relying on lately) but I like him as my 'Chapter Master' and no matter how much I want to win, I cannot sell my soul to do so -_-

What about a libby in Termy armour with Gate? To get my Termies up with the advance of my rhinos? Too risky?

Or what about a Libby in PA with my Sternguard and give him Smite, 4 ap2 shots will really hurt his PA troops!

So, Sternguard AND Termies is too much you think? Can I just check, it says in the codex may 'take' a Cyclone ML...not replace anything. So my cyclones have the storm bolter and power fists too, right?

If I drop the Sternguard I could fit in a 5 termy assault squad. Or as you say some preds. But this list doesn't really have much in the way of CC does it, apart from the Termies I mean and they are a bit slow to be able to react to his threats.

Hmmmm, now I am questioning the list atogether :P

 

Don't worry, the list is fine as it is. I was just suggesting that if you wanted more fire support then the Sternguard would be the unit I'd drop to fit it in.

 

As for a Libby Termy with Gate, it's a idea, but not necessary. If your Terminators had assault cannons or heavy flamers then I'd agree, but with cyclones you've got a 48", plus 6" movement, so you don't really need Gate. It can be a good reaction movement. As for Smite, steer clear. Sure it's AP2 and has 4 shots, but it's strength 4, meaning you're wounding Marines on a 4+, hitting on 3s after a psychic test and only 12" range. A much better choice is Avenger, which is AP3 so still ignores power armour, is S5 so wounds on 3s, and as it's a template doesn't require any rolls to hit and ignores cover. OK Smite can kill Terminators, but then you should be using Null Zone for your plasma guns etc.

 

Yes your Terminators keep their power fists and storm bolters even when taking cyclones, which is one of the reason why cyclones are preferred.

 

And you're fine in combat, you've got 9 power fists and a power sword, plus 20 attacks from that unit of Terminators, 30 if you charge. The only thing you're missing is a 3++ save, but that only matters against MCs which you should shoot krak missiles at and elite units which you should block off with your vehicles and then shoot them to death. Furthermore, with Assault Terminators you really need a Land Raider, restricting their numbers, and they can only contribute in assault as well. Your unit of Tactical Terminators is a fantastic unit to build an army around, so don't worry too much about it.

[nurglephill]

I guess then it is now just a choice of HQ and working out HOW to get the best out of them on the field. (Well, and ignoring the 6 weeks I have to get them all painted LOL...still I AM having fun doing that too!)

 

I have not really used a Libby since the REAL RT days when you had four pages of powers to choose from...but I am not sure on the template weapon (or Smite now) because I am wondering about its limited range. If my termies are walking with ranged weapons then a Libby with them armed with a short ranged power seems an odd choice. And if they tacticals and sternguard are going to be at the sharp end of my line it would make more sense to put the HQ with a bit of bite in here with them, right?

 

So maybe the Libby in power armour with the sternguard, give him Avenger so coupled with the heavy flamers thats three NASTY template weapons which will take down an awful lot of troops, then assault the rest. And Nullzone when needing to rid them of the save.

[DarkGuard]

Perhaps Gate and Null Zone for the Terminators. Use Gate to get out of sticky situations are bring your Terminators in close to support beleaguered squads, could be interesting. I wouldn't worry too much about the range of Avenger, it's a secondary power to match flamers or soften up models before jumping into combat. If you want a ranged power on the Termy Libby I'd choose Vortex of Doom though. Although short ranged, it's better than Smite and can even crack Land Raiders open, not bad IMO.

[Brother Rathul]

Many many thanks for the advice!

 

I have made the changes suggested and I confess I had thought the best combo for a multi melta was a melta gun..it seemed...obvious. However your suggestions make more sense. Like I said I am a bit crap Hehehehe.

 

I confess to feeling a little proud that my tactical idea sounds, in principle at least, sound :ermm: :cuss

 

So the last little change:

 

HQ

 

Space Marine Captain, relic blade storm shield: 140

 

Troops

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Flamer, multi melta, power fist & combi flamer. Rhino: 245pts

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Melta gun, Missile Launcher, power fist & combi melta. Rhino: 240pts

 

Elite

 

10 Terminators, 2 cyclone missile launchers, 2 chainfists: 470pts

 

5 Sternguard, 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi melta rhino: 195pts

 

Fast Attack

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer: 210pts

 

total: 1500pts

 

Many thanks ;)

 

Feel free to add more thoughts

 

Phill

 

Hmmmm,

Just a couple of points right off the bat, make sure you put your tactical squads in cover and make sure they don't get shot up. Keep in mind that it's your only scoring unit, and once their gone you've lost. Those rhinos might look tough but keep them in cover so if it pops your guys don't get a torrent of fire. Also, is your friend using a horde list that you have the flamers? If I may I'd like to see this list to make some better assumptions.

Brother Rathul

[nurglephill]

Hmmmm,

Just a couple of points right off the bat, make sure you put your tactical squads in cover and make sure they don't get shot up. Keep in mind that it's your only scoring unit, and once their gone you've lost. Those rhinos might look tough but keep them in cover so if it pops your guys don't get a torrent of fire. Also, is your friend using a horde list that you have the flamers? If I may I'd like to see this list to make some better assumptions.

Brother Rathul

 

I don't know what he will use, but it wont be a horde army for sure. Most likely it will be a Power armoured army, if it is his squats they will include melta bikes. As for the flamers, I like there ability to deal with scouts in cover and they make people roll saves.

 

Sorry I can't help more...one of the reasons why I am here!

[nurglephill]

Ok I have done some thinking and some tweaking...I should have been painting :P

 

Thoughts on this list please :)

 

HQ

 

Space Marine Librarian, Terminator armour, Storm bolter: 130pts

 

Troops

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Flamer, multi melta, combi flamer. Rhino: 215pts

 

1 sergeant 9 marines, Melta gun, Missile Launcher, combi melta. Rhino: 215pts

 

Elite

 

10 Terminators, 2 cyclone missile launchers, 2 chainfists: 470pts

 

Dreadnought, 2 X twin linked Auto cannon: 125pts

 

Fast Attack

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer

 

Landspeeder multi melta & heavy flamer: 140pts

 

Heavy Attack

 

Predator, Heavy Bolter side sponsons: 85pts

 

total: 1505pts

 

It is over....What do you think?

[ShinyRhino]

To instantly free up points...dump the Librarian's stormbolter. If you give him a shooty power like Vortex of Doom, Avenger, or Smite, he'll never fire the stormbolter.

[DarkGuard]

To instantly free up points...dump the Librarian's stormbolter. If you give him a shooty power like Vortex of Doom, Avenger, or Smite, he'll never fire the stormbolter.

 

This. Otherwise is looks good and solid, hope it does well for you.

[nurglephill]

Many many thanks to you guys ;)

 

You have actually re-ignited my interest in these forums...so I shall hang about and learn more!

[nurglephill]

Right I found out I will be facing PLAGUE MARINES! So T4 (5) and FNP.

 

To that end I knocked up a list of the most deadly anti Plague Marine list I could think of....remembering my thinking is not based on any experience lol.

 

HQ:

 

Chapter Master in terminator armour with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield - 175

 

Elite:

 

5 Assault Terminators (probably more claws than hammers...) - 200

LR Redeemer with Extra Armour and Multi Melta (AP THREE flamers = no armour sabe of FNP rolls :rolleyes: ) - 265

 

Heavy Support:

 

Thunder fire cannon - 100

 

Devastator Squad: X4 plasma cannons - 190

 

Troops:

 

Tactical squad 9 marines 1 sergeant, multi melta, flamer, rhino with extra armour - 220

 

Tactical squad 9 marines 1 sergeant, missile launcher, plasma gun, rhino with extra armour - 230

 

Fast attack:

 

Land speeder with heavy flamer and multi melta - 60

Land speeder with heavy flamer and multi melta - 60

 

total 1500

 

Thoughts etc welcome.

[Mysticaria]

Unfortunately Plague Marines will get a FNP from Flamestorm Canons. You need to have S8 or AP2 to ignore FNP. I recommend krak missile spam.

 

Also, why are you taking a chapter master? You aren't taking him to unlock honor guard, so I'm assuming you want him for the orbital bombardment? Hard not to want Lysander here for only 25 points more. I think your points may be off on the speeders. That format usually costs 70 points. Devastators are really expensive taking them that way, and will start losing weapons fast when they take casualties. You may want to consider missile launchers instead since they'll be much cheaper and will still ignore FNP. Plus, they'd be better at kicking out rhinos and such. Rhino's probably don't need extra armor. That's enough points right there to get Lysander upgrade.

 

-Myst

[nurglephill]

Thanks Mysticaria :lol:

 

I thought AP3 defeated armour saves of 3+ ? PM's have a 3+ save so it would defeat the armour and therefore they would get no FNP...right?

 

I confess I may have gotten the Speeder points wrong...sorry D'oh!

 

The Chapter Master/Lysander counts as is one I am thinking about indeed.

 

The extra armour is there because I only have three tanks which means my opponent is gonna shoot them lots and I would rather they lived long enough for him to waste rounds shooting them and still function as useful bits of mobile terrain etc.

 

I agree about the dev squad....but TEMPLATE no armour save/FNP roll guns are a Plague Marines worse nightmare!

 

My biggest Concern is the LR and Termies being 'out on there own' in this list, and having read a post in this section about 'Redeemer lists' the problem of getting into flamer range AND getting all those terminator bases out of the raider and more than 1" from your opponent. Should I sawp the Termies for a Chapter master in power armour with honour guard?

[DarkGuard]

I thought AP3 defeated armour saves of 3+ ? PM's have a 3+ save so it would defeat the armour and therefore they would get no FNP...right?

 

Not quite. You don't get FnP from Instant Death weaponry, AP1/2 weapons and weapons in close combat that never allow an armour saves, such as power weapons. AP3 isn't included, therefore against the S6, AP3 flamestorm cannon Plague Marines still get FnP, despite not getting their armour save.

 

As for the list, I'd say listen to Myst, he's covered what I wanted to say.

 

As for your other questions, Honour Guard are an option if you want to lessen the points load. However, while I like HG (Idaho has converted me it seems), the best configuration is lots of power weapons with a couple of relic blades. Lots of power weapons that wound on a 5+. Meanwhile, if you use Lysander and the TH/SS Terminators you have a nigh unstoppable force which kill Plague Marines on a 2+, not bad. Don't worry about them being on their own, they can take the damage, and if you're still worried move your Tactical squad over there.

 

Why no melta/plasma on both Tactical squads? You have a flamer there, it'll do nothing against Plague Marines. I'd focus on putting at least a melta and plasma weapon in each Tactical squad, maybe a combi-plasma or combi-melta as well.

 

The plasma cannon squad looks fine, but I'm not sure about the TFC. Again, I like it, and it does wonders against normal Marines, but against Plague Marines it's wounding on 3s instead of 2s, and they have FnP as well as their power armour save. I'd consider dropping it for more bodies in the Dev squad, allowing you to combat squad it if you want.

 

If you are going to take the plasma cannon squad out consider Typhoons instead of ML Devs, cheaper, more mobile, and they do the job just right.

 

I'd definitely drop the extra armour from the Rhinos. You're paying half of the points of cost of your cheap vehicle to prevent one vehicle damage result. It doesn't matter whether you get a glancing hit or a penetrating hit, you've still only got a 1/6 chance of getting crew stunned. Provided I've moved my Rhino at least once it means nothing to me, I'm still not firing out of that top hatch even with extra armour.

 

An idea about the plasma cannon squad is to swap them with the missile launchers in the Tactical squad. Try and fit 4 MLs in the Dev squad, and give both of your Tactical squads plasma cannons and either plasma guns or meltaguns. Points cost of the heavies will be 70pts instead of 100pts, and you'll probably do just as well.

 

Best of luck.