Wysten Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Aye, as said, only the Space Wolves are so eager to meet on the battlefield. Perhaps that was one reason why the Space Wolves didn't get their minds wiped, at least not entirely, as picking a fight with them is akin to turning a large portion close to the eye of terror against them. The Space Wolves are in quite a unique postion that they are very rebellious for a codex chapter, but their status as a first founding and the loyality in their sector makes picking a fight with them more bother then it's worth. Ultimately a lapse in that area could cause several demon incurstions to arise as the space protected by the Space Wolves rebel and ultimately, it seems that it was not worth the risk. Least, thats my idea on it, most codex chapters would be more then willing to accept it, but when you have one of the First Founding chapters on your hand, exceptions are made unless they want a lot of trouble on their hands, and the imperium is in trouble as it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Aye, as said, only the Space Wolves are so eager to meet on the battlefield. Perhaps that was one reason why the Space Wolves didn't get their minds wiped, at least not entirely, as picking a fight with them is akin to turning a large portion close to the eye of terror against them. The Space Wolves are in quite a unique postion that they are very rebellious for a codex chapter, but their status as a first founding and the loyality in their sector makes picking a fight with them more bother then it's worth. Ultimately a lapse in that area could cause several demon incurstions to arise as the space protected by the Space Wolves rebel and ultimately, it seems that it was not worth the risk. Least, thats my idea on it, most codex chapters would be more then willing to accept it, but when you have one of the First Founding chapters on your hand, exceptions are made unless they want a lot of trouble on their hands, and the imperium is in trouble as it is. The Blood Angels where a first founding chapter as I recall, yet they where mindwiped as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 This reminds me of DC comics, Identity Crisis. And how Batman got his mind wiped by his friends/allies in the Justice League. It's a reason why he's paranoid, doesn't trust anyone and is a prick to everyone, including other heroes. When Batman eventually found out many years later of what happened... :D hit the fan. In the SW codex, pg 23. it only mentions the Administratum and Inquisition. So either the GKs left the wolves alone, cause they fought together. Then again, out of 100 GKs, only a handful survived, not enough to do a mass mind wipe on the wolves. Even older fluff never said anything with the GK involvement on the purge, and quarantine. Geez, talk about being in the wrong place and the wrong time huh? need to know basis, is a need to know basis LOL It's why I was a little shocked about the GKs. They are cool, but Ward made them out to be more like the men in black. But the old wolf did vowed to avenge the heroes of Armageddon... and that is an oath, a true wolf can never break! so how about them GKs that count as SWs, that count as movie marines that count as Chuck Norris coming along? LOL jk Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Stromclaw Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Aye, as said, only the Space Wolves are so eager to meet on the battlefield. Perhaps that was one reason why the Space Wolves didn't get their minds wiped, at least not entirely, as picking a fight with them is akin to turning a large portion close to the eye of terror against them. The Space Wolves are in quite a unique postion that they are very rebellious for a codex chapter, but their status as a first founding and the loyality in their sector makes picking a fight with them more bother then it's worth. Ultimately a lapse in that area could cause several demon incurstions to arise as the space protected by the Space Wolves rebel and ultimately, it seems that it was not worth the risk. Least, thats my idea on it, most codex chapters would be more then willing to accept it, but when you have one of the First Founding chapters on your hand, exceptions are made unless they want a lot of trouble on their hands, and the imperium is in trouble as it is. The Blood Angels where a first founding chapter as I recall, yet they where mindwiped as well. True, but remember that Blood Angels have been numerically weakened by the Black Rage and, as far as I can recall, basically just have the Baal system as an operational center. The noncodex wolves number significantly more than the Blood Angels and (according to older fluff) maintain ties of loyalty with many planets in the surrounding sector, sort of like a larger but less organised Ultramar. Could Blood Angels put up a fight? :D yes. Could they plunge an entire sector into war and threaten Terra itself? Probably not. As they say, let sleeping dogs lie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Aye, as said, only the Space Wolves are so eager to meet on the battlefield. Perhaps that was one reason why the Space Wolves didn't get their minds wiped, at least not entirely, as picking a fight with them is akin to turning a large portion close to the eye of terror against them. The Space Wolves are in quite a unique postion that they are very rebellious for a codex chapter, but their status as a first founding and the loyality in their sector makes picking a fight with them more bother then it's worth. Ultimately a lapse in that area could cause several demon incurstions to arise as the space protected by the Space Wolves rebel and ultimately, it seems that it was not worth the risk. Least, thats my idea on it, most codex chapters would be more then willing to accept it, but when you have one of the First Founding chapters on your hand, exceptions are made unless they want a lot of trouble on their hands, and the imperium is in trouble as it is. The Blood Angels where a first founding chapter as I recall, yet they where mindwiped as well. True, but remember that Blood Angels have been numerically weakened by the Black Rage and, as far as I can recall, basically just have the Baal system as an operational center. The noncodex wolves number significantly more than the Blood Angels and (according to older fluff) maintain ties of loyalty with many planets in the surrounding sector, sort of like a larger but less organised Ultramar. Could Blood Angels put up a fight? :) yes. Could they plunge an entire sector into war and threaten Terra itself? Probably not. As they say, let sleeping dogs lie. The sucessors appearantly follow Dante in the BA Codex and Sagnuinius is described as being regarded as a Saint in the 3rd edition BA Codex. If the Inquisition tried to mess with them there would be major consequences. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 so is it safe to say from a fluff wise perspective, GK and SW don't play well together as allies on the battlefield? the distrust even more so now thanks to Ward. But I guess in tabletop terms, mind wipe jokes are mandatory! either way, if they do mind wipe us.. out acute senses would pick up something in the air "do you smell that?" yup "that's the smell of old spice, with a hint of paladin.. or is it that clean dentist room smell that comes with the GKs." "oops they did it again!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 so is it safe to say from a fluff wise perspective, GK and SW don't play well together as allies on the battlefield? the distrust even more so now thanks to Ward. But I guess in tabletop terms, mind wipe jokes are mandatory! either way, if they do mind wipe us.. out acute senses would pick up something in the air "do you smell that?" yup "that's the smell of old spice, with a hint of paladin.. or is it that clean dentist room smell that comes with the GKs." "oops they did it again!" I guess it would depend how much the SW knew of the Grey Knights activities. Somehow I don't imagine the GK submitting a full report to Grimnar on all the Guardsmen they purged in the name of secrecy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 haha true, but I don't see GKs submitting any reports to anybody. But I wonder if our Rune Priest have protection against mind wipes? it would be interesting... I mean excerpts from the first battle of the Fang even mentions special seals against "magic" inside the Fang. So I would imagine after the Burning of Prospero, wolves tend to hold onto their wolf tail talismans and protection runes even closer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Grey Knights and Space Wolves are two of the chapters whose fluff doesn't take well to being bent like this, it simply doesn't fit in with the mythos of the 40k universe. Play a Grey Knights list with Space Wolves models and just go for a "counts as" army and say it's because you like the models, but don't try to merge the two chapters' fluffs, that's just lame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Aye, as said, only the Space Wolves are so eager to meet on the battlefield. Perhaps that was one reason why the Space Wolves didn't get their minds wiped, at least not entirely, as picking a fight with them is akin to turning a large portion close to the eye of terror against them. The Space Wolves are in quite a unique postion that they are very rebellious for a codex chapter, but their status as a first founding and the loyality in their sector makes picking a fight with them more bother then it's worth. Ultimately a lapse in that area could cause several demon incurstions to arise as the space protected by the Space Wolves rebel and ultimately, it seems that it was not worth the risk. Least, thats my idea on it, most codex chapters would be more then willing to accept it, but when you have one of the First Founding chapters on your hand, exceptions are made unless they want a lot of trouble on their hands, and the imperium is in trouble as it is. The Blood Angels where a first founding chapter as I recall, yet they where mindwiped as well. Difference is I imagine they would allow themselves to be wiped more willingly and not excised resistance, while the space wolves get extremely aggressive when they want to be. Considering they were already angry about having the guardsmen they fought beside purged, they would not be allowed the dishonour of forgetting that event. Not read the GK codex however, so I don't know the details. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I would pass on this idea. You want to toy around with C:GK for a lil bit? Enjoy, have some counts as games.... But I couldnt get into this Rune-Company idea personally, and- no offense- it sounds like a fairly thin justification. You want to do some awesome conversions? Rock on! Theyd probly work great in apocalypse.... or, in the dreadknights case as a counts-as dreadnaught. They go onto say that Marines get mind-scrubbed but those that refuse get treated like Guard. A.K.A killed dead. Strangely, of Logan and the Wolves, nothing was said about this. Doubly strange then that its apparent the SWs know of the event, and that no mention is made of marines other than the GK and SW..... I think its a wardism. Oh good, I agree. "I'm gonna make GK super-mega-ultra *starts writing* Taddah! Oh fiddlesticks, Armageddon1..... hmmm *fasts and prays for a fortnight. Insight comes* Maybe I'll just do this.... 'exceptions' ha, that'll fix that conundrum *angels play harps whilst Ward looks happy with himself* Like Chaos Marines wouldn't know this stuff and send the information to Imperial Marines. Most would dismiss it as propaganda, but it would certainly get Grimnar's goat. And people wonder why Ward gets ripped on for fluff writing? He gets carried away like a ten year old. His fluff onto the table is quite good, but when he writes new fluff.... wowee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Grey Knights and Space Wolves are two of the chapters whose fluff doesn't take well to being bent like this, it simply doesn't fit in with the mythos of the 40k universe. Play a Grey Knights list with Space Wolves models and just go for a "counts as" army and say it's because you like the models, but don't try to merge the two chapters' fluffs, that's just lame. New Shiny model/codex envy is a dangerous drug. Makes you want to do crazy things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Aye, as said, only the Space Wolves are so eager to meet on the battlefield. Perhaps that was one reason why the Space Wolves didn't get their minds wiped, at least not entirely, as picking a fight with them is akin to turning a large portion close to the eye of terror against them. The Space Wolves are in quite a unique postion that they are very rebellious for a codex chapter, but their status as a first founding and the loyality in their sector makes picking a fight with them more bother then it's worth. Ultimately a lapse in that area could cause several demon incurstions to arise as the space protected by the Space Wolves rebel and ultimately, it seems that it was not worth the risk. Least, thats my idea on it, most codex chapters would be more then willing to accept it, but when you have one of the First Founding chapters on your hand, exceptions are made unless they want a lot of trouble on their hands, and the imperium is in trouble as it is. The Blood Angels where a first founding chapter as I recall, yet they where mindwiped as well. Since when were the blood angels at the First War for Armageddon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 @Grey Mage. different occasion. must be a party favor from GK though, but wolves know better not to go to other people's party, cause we throw our own, and do it better. not to mention, we have better drinks. --edit-- GKs says to other astartes, "these are not the droids your looking for." Random Astartes Space Marine, "these are not the droids were looking for I guess." GKs says to SWs, "these are not the droids your looking for." SW replies... *GROWLS* "silly rabbit, tricks are for kids! it only works on the willing and the weak minded. do yah think wolves are stupid? were anti-authoritarian, born and bred to resist and to fight back, all things dark and sinister, fallen stars alike.. even ones who wear friendly mask, our inner beast can tell the difference, its instinct.. animal instinct. I can smell your bull from a mile away" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Aye, as said, only the Space Wolves are so eager to meet on the battlefield. Perhaps that was one reason why the Space Wolves didn't get their minds wiped, at least not entirely, as picking a fight with them is akin to turning a large portion close to the eye of terror against them. The Space Wolves are in quite a unique postion that they are very rebellious for a codex chapter, but their status as a first founding and the loyality in their sector makes picking a fight with them more bother then it's worth. Ultimately a lapse in that area could cause several demon incurstions to arise as the space protected by the Space Wolves rebel and ultimately, it seems that it was not worth the risk. Least, thats my idea on it, most codex chapters would be more then willing to accept it, but when you have one of the First Founding chapters on your hand, exceptions are made unless they want a lot of trouble on their hands, and the imperium is in trouble as it is. The Blood Angels where a first founding chapter as I recall, yet they where mindwiped as well. Since when were the blood angels at the First War for Armageddon? I'm talking about when the Blood Angels and the Knights stormed Ka'Bandha's fortress together in the GK Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Wooooow. Really? Crazy talk right there. Im really not liking the direction of the 'new and improved' grey knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Wooooow. Really? Crazy talk right there. Im really not liking the direction of the 'new and improved' grey knights. yup, pg. 15 and 16 in the C:GK. What's worst IMHO is that Dante agreed/allowed on the mind wipe! you can see the differences between the morals and principles there compared to a SW/Logan Grimnar. It's reason why I was a little shocked and disappointed when I read the First War of Armageddon on the GK's part after the war. "To the righteous we bring hope. To the tainted we bring fire." - Castellan Garran Crowe pg.31 It should really read.. "To the righteous we bring hope. To the tainted we bring fire. To our allies.. well who cares, they won't even remember, nor should you!" - Hypocratus maximus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Just read the GK Codex. Dear god, the background has been written by a 5 year old. "Inquisitor Darkhammer" - I mean, come on! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I got the GK codex today to figure out ways to kill them, like I do with every new codex, and, while reading the fluff, curled up in a fetal position and started crying to myself. If this was placed in the Liber, it would be torn to shreds, burned, had the ashes turned to shreds, and then had the shreds of the ashes sent into the sun. The worst thing I can think of off hand is the mind-wipe thing. I mean, come on! There are so many codices, IA books, and BL books with mentions of daemons in them that they would have to perform an Armageddon I-scale retcon/mind wipe in order to even start to obey this fluff. EVIL! EVIL I tell you! EVIL! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Grey Knights and Space Wolves are two of the chapters whose fluff doesn't take well to being bent like this, it simply doesn't fit in with the mythos of the 40k universe. Play a Grey Knights list with Space Wolves models and just go for a "counts as" army and say it's because you like the models, but don't try to merge the two chapters' fluffs, that's just lame. New Shiny model/codex envy is a dangerous drug. Makes you want to do crazy things. I totally agree with this, even i saw some of the knight things and although modelled badly i wanted some. Gundam anyone? Im really not liking the direction of the 'new and improved' grey knights. Me neither, they used to be such a pure force for good before but have now been retconned to be more grimdark. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2710861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It just goes to show, Space Wolves get the job done, but at the same time remain true heroes for the people of the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2711355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 @Grey Mage. different occasion. must be a party favor from GK though, but wolves know better not to go to other people's party, cause we throw our own, and do it better. not to mention, we have better drinks. --edit-- GKs says to other astartes, "these are not the droids your looking for." Random Astartes Space Marine, "these are not the droids were looking for I guess." GKs says to SWs, "these are not the droids your looking for." SW replies... *GROWLS* "silly rabbit, tricks are for kids! it only works on the willing and the weak minded. do yah think wolves are stupid? were anti-authoritarian, born and bred to resist and to fight back, all things dark and sinister, fallen stars alike.. even ones who wear friendly mask, our inner beast can tell the difference, its instinct.. animal instinct. I can smell your bull from a mile away" GKs says to SWs, "these are not the droids your looking for." SW replies... *SNIKT* Mav, you said it right earlier, it's about doing the right thing. SW have long been the marines, who "do the right thing" even when that's not always what the "empire" would consider the "right" thing. That's why there are a number of players who "are" SW rather than just "play" SW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2711374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 @Grey Mage. different occasion. must be a party favor from GK though, but wolves know better not to go to other people's party, cause we throw our own, and do it better. not to mention, we have better drinks. --edit-- GKs says to other astartes, "these are not the droids your looking for." Random Astartes Space Marine, "these are not the droids were looking for I guess." GKs says to SWs, "these are not the droids your looking for." SW replies... *GROWLS* "silly rabbit, tricks are for kids! it only works on the willing and the weak minded. do yah think wolves are stupid? were anti-authoritarian, born and bred to resist and to fight back, all things dark and sinister, fallen stars alike.. even ones who wear friendly mask, our inner beast can tell the difference, its instinct.. animal instinct. I can smell your bull from a mile away" GKs says to SWs, "these are not the droids your looking for." SW replies... *SNIKT* Mav, you said it right earlier, it's about doing the right thing. SW have long been the marines, who "do the right thing" even when that's not always what the "empire" would consider the "right" thing. That's why there are a number of players who "are" SW rather than just "play" SW. A lot of credit for that comes down to their roots from growing up on fenris sans exposure to the outside world. Life is not easier for it but it teaches sw a sense of community and the value of life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2711403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Brothers (and cousins) thanks for your valued CC and input. Having bought and read the codex I've come to the conclusion that the GK (no doubt thanks to Mr Ward) are now a bunch of...well, they're not the 'good guys' as we know and understand the Sons of Russ to be. However, in order to alleviate a little burden on my wallet and to play something different, I've modified my fluff as follows: Here we go...Ver 1.2 Following the conclusion for the first War for Armegeddon, the Great Wolf and the Grey Knights held a secret council. It was decreed that a specialized force of Rune warriors would be created under the guidance of the Grey Knights and the most senior of Rune Priests. What came about was a secret company of Space Wolves created solely for the purposes of combating Daemons and other perils of the warp. This company, guided by Rune Priests with the training of a handful of Grey Knights are the Rune Knights. Oh - not sure who said it, but I really do not go much into spouting my fluff at the game table but you're all welcome to try and kick my in the junk any time you like (I always pass my counter attack roll) :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2712277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Brothers (and cousins) thanks for your valued CC and input. Having bought and read the codex I've come to the conclusion that the GK (no doubt thanks to Mr Ward) are now a bunch of...well, they're not the 'good guys' as we know and understand the Sons of Russ to be. However, in order to alleviate a little burden on my wallet and to play something different, I've modified my fluff as follows: Here we go...Ver 1.2 Following the conclusion for the first War for Armegeddon, the Great Wolf and the Grey Knights held a secret council. It was decreed that a specialized force of Rune warriors would be created under the guidance of the Grey Knights and the most senior of Rune Priests. What came about was a secret company of Space Wolves created solely for the purposes of combating Daemons and other perils of the warp. This company, guided by Rune Priests with the training of a handful of Grey Knights are the Rune Knights. Oh - not sure who said it, but I really do not go much into spouting my fluff at the game table but you're all welcome to try and kick my in the junk any time you like (I always pass my counter attack roll) :) Like a taco bell taco bell taco, I have far less beef with this improvised fluff. I could see something like this actually happening. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226252-gk-codex-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2712291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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