wise_crak Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 hey guys! just a quck and easy question...how do you beat orks with space marines?? i have worked many lists but dont know whats best! all i know is he will be playing with 2 lots of AoBR orks and if anything gets added it be a truk or a shed load of boys! any suggestions?? thanks in advance Wisey :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Oh, if he doesn't have anything special, then your solution is simple: all you need is flamers and missile launchers (and a handful of bolters don't hurt either.) Krak missile the vehicles, flame and frag and shoot the boyz. These can come from anywhere- Typhoon speeders, Devastators, Tacticals, CML Terminators, whatever. Edit: My own personal method for wiping Boyz off the table: Dreadnoughts with TL Heavy Flamer on the weapon arm, a Heavy Flamer under the CCW arm, and stuff them in Drop Pods with Deathwind Launchers. Works every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 As long as he doesn't start playing Kanwall orkz (150 ork boys with 9 killa kans , big Kommandos squad outflanking , a squad of gretchin to camp home objectives plus a mek with custom force field for a 4+ cover save) the standard template weapons like flamers and frag missles will remain quite effective and will ensure you hit multiple orkz a turn , combined with bolter fire should kill dozens of them. Its nice to have a decent counter assault unit for when the orks get close. ( usually when they get to about 18" or less away ) so you can charge them , this prevents them from gaining the +1 attack for charging. Orkz can also struggle with damaging mech ( as they have little ranged anti-tank and only have powerclaws on nobz in a standard boyz squad) . De-meching units of orkz in trukks early is important as it forces them to footslog towards your guns and you then should be able to outmanouver him if you're meched up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Don't be afraid to charge! If you charge them, the normal Ork boys will only be wounding you on 5's in close combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 anything that kills in large numbers, so template and blast weapons are your friend, there are several ork builds that use kans and battlewagons and the such, but generally aslong as you bring an all rounder list that has plenty of blast and template weapons you should be fine. kill any transports early on and dont be afraid to charge the orks, they are S3 base so thats 5s to wound, if you use bikes they need 6's to wound you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptinLoken Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I just lost to 90 boys 6 cans and 8 kopters ... Mech boy ... I have to say trying to put an entire army's worth of fire power onto a single 30 man block is quite difficult. The flamer is almost a must against these armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I just lost to 90 boys 6 cans and 8 kopters ... Mech boy ... I have to say trying to put an entire army's worth of fire power onto a single 30 man block is quite difficult. The flamer is almost a must against these armies. With an Army list like that its about dropping the Kans and Kopters first so your mech is far more survivable. It becomes a game of "can I drop all those kans in two turns before they're ontop of me"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf2.3 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 With a Bolter and Chainsword! No seriously. Volumes of firepower backed up by some counter assault of choice ( I like assault marines) works wonders on ork mobs. If he has heavier stuff pack a few meltas. Thier great at insta gibbing nobs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yotakka Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 standard tac squads with fl/ml. from there add a combi flamer to the sarge and get close and steal the charge from em. other than that give a whirlwind or a vindicator a whirl. probably a vindicator if he starts tooling up those nobs as they cause id and a few more wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Also, weapons that ignore cover saves work wonders against their custom force field :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Of Malfeasance X Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Here is the most misunderstood thing about Orks: You cannot win by shooting them with bolters, or flamers, or templates. You win by destroying their vehicles and combo-charging with AT LEAST 2 of the following in any combination: assault squads/veterans/grey hunters, honor guard and kill them with combat resolution. If you think you can get away with it, charge no more than 2 boyz units at a time and make sure you win combat by as large a margin as possible. If you can get furious charge, get it. Those large squads of boyz go away in one or two rounds if they're making 11 or 12 saves each because of combat res. Bear the following in mind: A nob does not have 2 wounds; he has 31 wounds. You will have to put up with his obnoxious 3 S8 attacks for at least 2 rounds, probably 3 rounds of CC. Plan accordingly. If your opponent is not an idiot, there will be Nobz; though perhaps not Biker Nobz (Meganobz are really easy to kill) who will be escorting the Mek. You are looking at 7-10 of them with WS 5, around 4 power klaws, 'eavy armor, invulnerable saves, FNP and a smattering of 'uge choppas and at least 4 attacks each on the charge. If you do not kill their mobility, they will always get the charge (27" charge range if they have a functioning battlewagon). Because Codex: Orks was written by a person suffering from terminal Faecal Encephalitis, you will need approximately 1.5x the cost of the Nobz unit to charge them immediately with massive quantities of power weapons in order to get them to run. The 7 Nob unit is about 350, the 10 nobz unit is about 450. This does not include the Nobz' ride, which is either a fast vehicle that might spontaneously drive toward you when you kill it, or has a Deffrolla, the single most retarded piece of wargear in the game. Canny Ork players will try to tell you that it is not a weapon that can be destroyed, but rather wargear. Politely inform your opponent that he (or she, who knows?) is a cheating cad and you hope they get Lupus. For a variety of reasons that I will not go into here, it IS a weapon and it CAN be destroyed, and you SHOULD destroy it before it starts driving over your army and chopping your troops up with razor-sharp blades of crystalized stupidity. You should also know that flamers and templates are nigh-useless against Orks unless you have a whole bunch of them because to use them, you have to be exactly where the Orks want you. Any player of intelligence will simply spread his army of ridiculousness out to foil your templates. You are better off using well-placed missile launchers to get side shots on their vehicles and lots of badass assault troops. The only exceptions to this are the Manticore and Colossus (which, if you play marines, you can only take in apocalypse) which will make any Ork player cry. In essence, you must make them come to you with long range shooting and then pounce when they get in range. Shoota boyz are better than slugga boyz in every way and better than any space marine for the points. Plan accordingly. Finally; have a plan in place for what you intend to do about Lootas. Lootas are like man-portable autocannons which will strike you unerringly on the turn you need them to fail most. They can destroy transports, land speeder squadrons and squads of just about anything with impunity. Kill them before they kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 This does not include the Nobz' ride, which is either a fast vehicle that might spontaneously drive toward you when you kill it, or has a Deffrolla, the single most retarded piece of wargear in the game. Canny Ork players will try to tell you that it is not a weapon that can be destroyed, but rather wargear. Politely inform your opponent that he (or she, who knows?) is a cheating cad and you hope they get Lupus. For a variety of reasons that I will not go into here, it IS a weapon and it CAN be destroyed, and you SHOULD destroy it before it starts driving over your army and chopping your troops up with razor-sharp blades of crystalized stupidity. Please explain how the Deff-Rolla is a weapon... I'm pretty sure it comes under the wargear section... + an immobilised result stops the deff-rolla anyway.... or destroyed results... or any result that can stop the wagon moving for a turn or more will keep it out of action for a while... Also if what you say is true then that wouldn't be a canny Ork player but a cheating Ork player... and if in fact what you say is incorrect then they are just playing by the rules. I personally don't play with or against Orks very often and as awesome as they are against Deff-rollas even less... so it isn't a huge issue but if you are going to say things that others will read I do think some clarification is in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I have played vs the toughest Ork players in the universe (cept' Adrian Wood Himself) and when Ork players are up to snuff, they cannot be easily or routinely beaten. Any horde player (IG or tyranid) that models a force like the horde described above is likely to enjoy similar success. There are only so many dice you can throw as a SM player. The only thing I've seen get close to beating the ork horde are templars (horde vs large crusader squads), fleldar (vyper/jetbikes maxed on flamers), and IG horde (blob squads to the front). If you were watching, a nearly perfect horde ork list was in the Adepticon Final Four this weekend. I have not seen the list, but he had 6 kans instead of 9, will be interesting to see where that game went wrong. See/search for other posts in the past year on lengthy discussions on beating the ork horde. See my blog for alot of real close, but not quite, losses to orks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 hey guys, thanks for all the awesome advice!! well the sounds of it is, take out their mech first (im thinking rifleman dread for the def-coptas) then blast the boys till they get close enough, then flame and charge them? :) is a feasable idea to bunch myself up in a cornor behind 2 vindicators and a whirlwind blast away untill the boys get close enough to be flamed and charged? if im in a cornor it means the mob will bunch up trying to get to me, so with luck the blasts wouldnt miss! :) good idea? Wisey :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 There is some good in flank denial but it only really works if you deploy last.. the issue with deploying in a corner is that any template weapons they may have will also wreck havoc.. and if you do fail any tests youll run off the board before ATSKNF can kick in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 There is some good in flank denial but it only really works if you deploy last.. the issue with deploying in a corner is that any template weapons they may have will also wreck havoc.. and if you do fail any tests youll run off the board before ATSKNF can kick in. okay well instead of a cornor what about a ball in my deployment zone? start as forward as possibly in a tight ball? any retreating means i got space to play with, only down side is being surronded on 3 sides hmmm its tough alright :P Wisey ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 sometimes we can overthink a situation. flank denial is a good tactic, especially if your outnumbered, but as i said it means you have to set up last (ergo your opponent goes first) ive always found it wise to deploy according to the situation at hand, having a pre determined set up planned*** can mean your less flexible the best way to beat orks is to concentrate your army on a piece of his until it goes away then target another bit and so on, flank denial works well with this.. kill the mech and use target priority to whittle them down, once they get near charge them dont wait for them to charge you *** some exceptions are noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 This does not include the Nobz' ride, which is either a fast vehicle that might spontaneously drive toward you when you kill it, or has a Deffrolla, the single most retarded piece of wargear in the game. Canny Ork players will try to tell you that it is not a weapon that can be destroyed, but rather wargear. Politely inform your opponent that he (or she, who knows?) is a cheating cad and you hope they get Lupus. For a variety of reasons that I will not go into here, it IS a weapon and it CAN be destroyed, and you SHOULD destroy it before it starts driving over your army and chopping your troops up with razor-sharp blades of crystalized stupidity. Please explain how the Deff-Rolla is a weapon... I'm pretty sure it comes under the wargear section... + an immobilised result stops the deff-rolla anyway.... or destroyed results... or any result that can stop the wagon moving for a turn or more will keep it out of action for a while... Sure, but so does the Killkannon which is undoubtedly a weapon. I can see it going either way, but being listed under "wargear" in the battlewagon entry doesn't disqualify it from being a weapon. Since it is an item which causes damage to the enemy, it seems fair game for weapon destroyed results to me... but I admit I can't think of a conclusive argument, that's just my gut feeling on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 This does not include the Nobz' ride, which is either a fast vehicle that might spontaneously drive toward you when you kill it, or has a Deffrolla, the single most retarded piece of wargear in the game. Canny Ork players will try to tell you that it is not a weapon that can be destroyed, but rather wargear. Politely inform your opponent that he (or she, who knows?) is a cheating cad and you hope they get Lupus. For a variety of reasons that I will not go into here, it IS a weapon and it CAN be destroyed, and you SHOULD destroy it before it starts driving over your army and chopping your troops up with razor-sharp blades of crystalized stupidity. Please explain how the Deff-Rolla is a weapon... I'm pretty sure it comes under the wargear section... + an immobilised result stops the deff-rolla anyway.... or destroyed results... or any result that can stop the wagon moving for a turn or more will keep it out of action for a while... Sure, but so does the Killkannon which is undoubtedly a weapon. I can see it going either way, but being listed under "wargear" in the battlewagon entry doesn't disqualify it from being a weapon. Since it is an item which causes damage to the enemy, it seems fair game for weapon destroyed results to me... but I admit I can't think of a conclusive argument, that's just my gut feeling on the matter. No they are both listed as upgrade options in the Battlewagon entry but then we go to the armoury section of the Ork codex... and on page 93 we have Ork Vehicle Upgrades and under this catagory we have Deff Rolla... Then we have page 89 Ork Wargear and the first sub-catagory (as Ork Wargear goes over multiple pages) is Weapons and here we find the Killkannon... an interesting fact however is that the Kustom Force field is counted as a weapon which normally makes no difference... however should you fight a Ork Dred mob (from Imperial Armour 8) they have vehicles that can take Kustom Force Fields as upgrades... so you could actually target them... although a custom force field isn't a weapon in the traditional sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 id say its a weapon, if you can attack with it its a weapon surely? and okay, if i deploy second id go for the "turtle" (ball up in my zone) with a nice large impassable terrain next to me for protection if i go first id probably go for a nice gun line then slowly retreat as they get closer untill i counter charge! BOOM dead orks :P so im thinking a nice mix of assault units (bikes with flamers?) and blast temps (vindicators and a whirlwind) would make a nice mess of orks! :D Wisey :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 id say its a weapon, if you can attack with it its a weapon surely? and okay, if i deploy second id go for the "turtle" (ball up in my zone) with a nice large impassable terrain next to me for protection if i go first id probably go for a nice gun line then slowly retreat as they get closer untill i counter charge! BOOM dead orks :P so im thinking a nice mix of assault units (bikes with flamers?) and blast temps (vindicators and a whirlwind) would make a nice mess of orks! :D Wisey :( You don't really attack with it... tau have fletchet launchers on their tank that hurt you if you attack it in close combat... it isn't a weapon... eldar tanks used to have scythes that could hurt you if you attacked them in close combat... all the deffrolla does is cause damage to a unit that decides to sit in front of it gets run over... I mean you can class anything as a weapon if you want... I can drown you in water, or use it to slow down attacking troops (real life here although I'm sure it is difficult terrain in game!) but normally people wouldn't class water as a weapon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikel Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 An idea i don't see mentioned here so much is speed bump squads, if you can afford to have them. Place a small sacrificial squad in front of the rest of your troops in suich a way that hopefully the orks have to charge them. If possible you want the squad to be small enough so that the orks will completekly demolish it in the first round of combat, and maybe take a few casualties off of them . The orks are now perfectly positioned to be flamed, shot, missile launched and then have the remainders stomped into the ground by your counter charge unit. It's not guaranteed to work but you may be able to lure a few squads to their doom that way, at least the first few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 not really a fan of the speed bump idea! i feel marines dont really have the guys to do that with (unlike the kroot for tau and penial guys for IG) okay well i been having a think and im thinking a landraider reedeemer with 5 shooty termmies in (all fist and S.bolter), 2 vindicators 1 on each side of LR, 2 rhinos with my troops behind them, then my 3 biker squad (2 flamers and power sword) flank for a charge, but whats better at taking down def-koptas? would a rifleman dread be best?????????? thanks guys! Wisey :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 not really a fan of the speed bump idea! i feel marines dont really have the guys to do that with (unlike the kroot for tau and penial guys for IG) okay well i been having a think and im thinking a landraider reedeemer with 5 shooty termmies in (all fist and S.bolter), 2 vindicators 1 on each side of LR, 2 rhinos with my troops behind them, then my 3 biker squad (2 flamers and power sword) flank for a charge, but whats better at taking down def-koptas? would a rifleman dread be best?????????? thanks guys! Wisey :) I think assault Terminators would be better, Hammernators for Kans and Nobz, or lightning claws for hordes. While you're in the transport you're not using your shooting attacks much, and your shooting power is covered by the Land Raider's guns. Therefore, the unit inside should just focus on combat. I'd also say a Crusader is better against Orks due to the range difference, the longer you can keep them at range the better, but the difference is minimal really. 3 Bikers won't do much except act as a speed bump, you ideally need more guys for that. As for deff-koptas, I believe they have two wounds at base toughness 4, I may be wrong. In this instance Typhoons and other sources of missile launchers will be better for instant death attacks. Rifleman Dreads are better for their Truks, Killa Kans etc. If you can I'd put in a healthy mix of the two, the Rifleman for rate of fire and accuracy, and the Typhoons for higher strength shots, flexibility and mobility. I'd also say that dakka Preds are worth looking at, due to their high rate of fire. Also Whirlwinds will be useful, especially if you want to negate any cover saves that they have. If you like Dev squads, then a quad heavy bolter squad will do wonders as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 That's a lot of useful info right there! I will tale that aboard! It's only a 1500 point game so I really can't fit all that stuff in! Right now I'm looking at 2 standard tac squads in bare rhinos The rifleman dread 2 vindicators Crusader Termmies At 1270 points! Still need a hq what else would you guys squeeze in and which hq? I think the orkz will have a mass advantage at this point level so really need to bring the heat! Wisey :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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