DarkGuard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 If you're worried about being outnumbered I'd consider a cheap HQ. A Libby might be useful for Avenger, but in this instance I'd consider the Chaplain, particularly Chaplain Cassius. Stick him in the Assault Terminator squad and get yourself re-rolls when you charge into combat. You should then have some points left for another Rifleman or Whirlwind or something similar to help you knock out more tanks or thin out the horde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 That's a lot of useful info right there! I will tale that aboard! It's only a 1500 point game so I really can't fit all that stuff in! Right now I'm looking at 2 standard tac squads in bare rhinos The rifleman dread 2 vindicators Crusader Termmies At 1270 points! Still need a hq what else would you guys squeeze in and which hq? I think the orkz will have a mass advantage at this point level so really need to bring the heat! Wisey :D First up - that squad of termies and the crusader are a third of your points. - for that many points you could have another 20-25 marines, more flamers and missile launchers, more attacks and more shooting capability. They will die to weight of attacks, even easier than PA marines (because there's less of them, always striking after the orks). I'd drop them, take 2 more tac squads, a small 5-man assault squad and a chaplain for your HQ - shoot transports with 4 ML's, 2 vindis and the dread, then start on any deff-dreads or Kans he's got. Use your rhinos as a wall to deny him the charge on your squads, and the Assault Squad and Chaplain to either finish off small squads of Boys (less than 10) or a a last ditch sacrificial unit to delay larger squads (15-20) if they get past your rhinos but you still need another round of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 That's a lot of useful info right there! I will tale that aboard! It's only a 1500 point game so I really can't fit all that stuff in! Right now I'm looking at 2 standard tac squads in bare rhinos The rifleman dread 2 vindicators Crusader Termmies At 1270 points! Still need a hq what else would you guys squeeze in and which hq? I think the orkz will have a mass advantage at this point level so really need to bring the heat! Wisey :) First up - that squad of termies and the crusader are a third of your points. - for that many points you could have another 20-25 marines, more flamers and missile launchers, more attacks and more shooting capability. They will die to weight of attacks, even easier than PA marines (because there's less of them, always striking after the orks). I'd drop them, take 2 more tac squads, a small 5-man assault squad and a chaplain for your HQ - shoot transports with 4 ML's, 2 vindis and the dread, then start on any deff-dreads or Kans he's got. Use your rhinos as a wall to deny him the charge on your squads, and the Assault Squad and Chaplain to either finish off small squads of Boys (less than 10) or a a last ditch sacrificial unit to delay larger squads (15-20) if they get past your rhinos but you still need another round of shooting. consider them ditched! i only added the raider cause i heared orkz have a hard time with AV12? tbh i like the look of this list and the stratagy i got in my mind! 4 squads of tac (3 ML and flamer 1 MM and Melta) 3 Rhinos chappy W. combi flamer assault squad (5man,flamer) free razor back (i though jumppacks would be a waste as id be waiting for them to come to me plus get a free razorback with twinlinked H.Bolter) 2 vindicators whirlwind rifleman dread although i was thinking of dropping 1 tac squad for a scout squad with telion and a ML appear mid board can take some orks out before they reach the main force? can swap the three rhinos for razorbacks then - extra TL H.Bolter action! what you think Wisey B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Telion can be pretty good for sniping Nobs, but don't expect too much. A unit of sniper scouts + Telion is a good home objective sitter though, in any circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Telion can be pretty good for sniping Nobs, but don't expect too much. problem is its two turns of shooting, normally i find more important stuff to shoot. although if your opponent throws a quick wound on him it becomes a good tactic to finsih him off. remember also that Telions shots ar AP5, so orks dont get a save Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Telion can be pretty good for sniping Nobs, but don't expect too much. problem is its two turns of shooting, normally i find more important stuff to shoot. although if your opponent throws a quick wound on him it becomes a good tactic to finsih him off. remember also that Telions shots ar AP5, so orks dont get a save Yeah it is, but i generally find the Ork Nob to be the only scary part of the unit, hah. Plus its not really a waste as such, since the rest of your scouts will be happilly wittling down the mob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 if you can drop the nobs, just dread-pit the remaining orks :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 So basically we are saying yay to the idea of sniper scouts with telion to A) pick off the nob and B ) to guide the missle guy! Plus then I'm fully kitted with 3 or 4 more razor backs! This is thread has praticakky turned into 101 ways to kill and an ork! Love it :) haha Wisey :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragax Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Don't know if its been mentioned Kustom Force Field gives infantry a 5+ cover, vehicles count as obscured so a 4+ for them Orks hate whirlwinds.. I know, I had Orks and they hurt like hell, and Thunder fire cannons are also brilliant, Ignore Cover, Slow them down, or target vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Fatiswon Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Finally; have a plan in place for what you intend to do about Lootas. Lootas are like man-portable autocannons which will strike you unerringly on the turn you need them to fail most. They can destroy transports, land speeder squadrons and squads of just about anything with impunity. Kill them before they kill you. i would think this would be the perfect application of a 5 man vanguard squad with jump packs and heroic intervention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boyz Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Orks are my main army. I am playing my shiny new UltraMarines (against them) tomorrow (so we will see how this goes!!!) Orks hate: TESTING MORALE - if he has a small (12 or so) squad, or a Nob squad w/out a Warboss, or a small bike unit or a big (5) Copta unit -- shoot it til it has to test morale - (or especially a Loota unit!! Expensive, so you often see small squads. Mine run away all the time!!) LOSING OUR TRANSPORTS - trucks or wagons - you pay for the vehicle, and so you have fewer boys, you need a big mob to walk across the board. Also truck boys are often 'pinned' if a couple die in the explosion (grrr) FLAMERS - especially when we think we are safe in cover. Orks don't really have any armor save to speak of so we use cover like armor. FEARLESS WOUNDS - Geez! I bring all these boys to the fight, and lose assault by 4 and then lose 4 more!! And if don't make morale you eat my whole squad. (grrrr2) Our big squads are fearless to 11 - so if it is a big unit we will be hanging around, and sometimes we just roll really well!! I have had a little 10-man truck mob EAT a unit of Spacewolves. Even w/ countercharge, we just rolled well and our PowerClaw Nob did his job. Yum yum. LOSING THE CHARGE - the initiative bonus doesn't matter - but the strength gives us a buffed up charge. We are rolling buckets of dice (80!!) if our 20 slugga boys charge you... Your Powerfist won't even get to swing! REMEMBER - Orks are a 'bully' army. If we get you on your heels you are doomed. If you stop us for 2 - 3 turns, and put on the hurt, we run away. Watch out for da Orks!! Beware my Marine killers: Burnas in a Battlewagon. Inflicting more wounds than is imaginable with 10-12 stacked templates. If they disembark and attack your Termies - they all have Power-weapons and will hit before your 'slow' Fist weapons. Deffrolla - Your Marines get an armor save from this - but it is really for your vehicles. It is the Ork MeltaGun. Stay away. I have rolled through Landraiders and Dreadnaughts (in the same turn!) 13" of vehicle dead-zone in front of me... Shoota Boys - Orks are not really all that good in assault. Most of us are running Shootaboyz. Two battlewagons full of Shootas - 18" range, 80 dice. Lootas - will make your rhinos rhuins. Killa Kans - one of our best units. 3 Kans w/ Grotzookas. 6 str. 6 templates. I have destroyed whole squads of Marines in one round. DeffCopta. Alpha strike on your Vindicator. Watch it! We get a 24" scout move, 12" move, shoot missiles (which always miss) and hit your tank with 3 auto-hit str 7 Buzzsaw attacks. I will at least saw off that stubby little cannon! I don't care if you shoot it down the next turn - I want you whole army to shoot at it!! Wish me luck with my Ultras!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 right so im getting the vibe here is: take out any transports take out the deff-koptas blast the boys wit templates till they run watch out for lootas and burna boyz charge the orks first before they get the charge Wisey B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boyz Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well it was close, but my Marines did their duty on the Orks. I dropped both their Battlewagons with Drop Pod troops (Ironclad in one, combat squadded Sternguard in the other). I made some rookie mistakes (allowed his truck-born NobMob to assault my slick little Missile-launcher Landspeeder) My troops were resilient, but I really had no way to stop his 600pt Ghazkull/Nob Squad - so I ran my only Rhino waaaay into the corner, and they chased it there and killed it (and it's squad). Got them out of the way for a couple turns!! My sniper scouts did nothing. I fed them to the Nobs too. I got an epic win in turn 7, when my Scout sargeant power-fisted Ghazkull to death to hold his objective!! Give that guy a medal!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Did the scouts under pro form or just bad rolls? Cause I was thinking would the points be better spent on a dreadnought and drop pod right in front of a threat? A combo dread anti tank/ Anti personal take out what ever is most threatening? :P Awesome about the chase! Good decoy! Wisey ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boyz Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 The scouts had to roll a 4 to hit, and a 4 to wound - they just didn't do much w/ only 4 of them (and the missile shot badly too) I imagine they are better if you bring more, add the sarge's BS - and maybe Telion to make them even better. 5 just wasn't enough. Next time I will bring a bunch or none at all. Big YES on the Ironclad in a drop pod -- dropped bottom of turn 1 behind a Battlewagon, Immobilized it with it's Melta, Fought the 20 sluggaboyz for about 10 assault rounds (really). It had one arm ripped off but hung in there until they were under fearless and killed them all in a sweeping advance. He had to survive all those Powerclaw hits - but that 13 Ironclad armor is hard for Orks to scratch after their charge is over. At least a 140pt BW and 20 sluggas (what-about 150 more points) plus he kept them of the objectives. He even sauntered over and helped the scouts fight Ghazkull - actually absorbed some more damage. He was a rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 The scouts had to roll a 4 to hit, and a 4 to wound - they just didn't do much w/ only 4 of them (and the missile shot badly too) I imagine they are better if you bring more, add the sarge's BS - and maybe Telion to make them even better. 5 just wasn't enough. Next time I will bring a bunch or none at all. Big YES on the Ironclad in a drop pod -- dropped bottom of turn 1 behind a Battlewagon, Immobilized it with it's Melta, Fought the 20 sluggaboyz for about 10 assault rounds (really). It had one arm ripped off but hung in there until they were under fearless and killed them all in a sweeping advance. He had to survive all those Powerclaw hits - but that 13 Ironclad armor is hard for Orks to scratch after their charge is over. At least a 140pt BW and 20 sluggas (what-about 150 more points) plus he kept them of the objectives. He even sauntered over and helped the scouts fight Ghazkull - actually absorbed some more damage. He was a rock. not enough points 1500 to fit the ironclad in would a bog standard dread hold up as well with a front AV12? im hoping the heavy flamer and storm bolter would take out enough boys that they wont have enough bodies to throw at it then next round flame-shoot-assault rinse and repeat! i think if it went up to 1850 id switch to ironclad! Wisey B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boyz Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Once the same thing happened to my Orks: Drop Pod lands, Dread pops out, blew up wagon, fought the BW mob for several turns, destroyed them all. It was a standard Melta dread. Sometimes the Nob will pop a dread right away - but sometimes they just whiff! Dreads can kill 1-2 Orks a round, and that doubles with 'fearless' wounds!! You just have to last a few turns! (Actually I was playing against the same guy I played Monday - we reversed armies - so I got revenge!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob524 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 don't tailor bro it's cheating, just keep that in your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 don't tailor bro it's cheating, just keep that in your mind Kinda, but not really at the same time. If i played my friend who uses a mech army, im probably going to bring more tank-busting guns than flamers for example. I wouldn't say it was cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wise_crak Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 I'm not tailoring that much! I'm only going as far as adding in ork busting units this would work well againsts nids, can rush IG, necrons gun down troops, rush tau, I think the only army this list would struggle against it space marine! Haha Plus now I got the options to switch out weapons on the razors to meet my needs, assault cannons for bigger ork armies, lasconnons or melta for mech, las plas for space marine see im playing the space marines advantage of being able to pick at the enemies weakness! wisey :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 don't tailor bro it's cheating, just keep that in your mind I think there's a difference between tailoring for a specific opponent and tailoring for a metagame. Tailoring for a metagame means including autocannons if there's lots of mech, or flamers instead of plasma guns if there's lots of horde. You don't want to disadvantage yourself against the majority. Even against a single opponent there are degrees of tailoring. I wouldn't expect everyone to not take much anti-tank when facing me, because it's "tailoring". If it's in their list beforehand it may well be because they struggled against my mech last week. I would feel disappointed if my opponent re-wrote his list to deal with my list right before the game though. There are degrees, and there is a line that must not be crossed, it's just not easy to see. Truth be told, everyone tailors somewhat. When Dark Eldar came out I ensured I had flamers over plasma guns because a lot of people would be using them. Now Grey Knights are out I'm entertaining using my quad-plasma unit because there will be a lot of Grey Knights to deal with. In my mind, tailoring to a metagame isn't a bad thing. If your principle opponent has Orks, then include some units to take out Orks. Of course, you may find that if you play someone else with Marines you'll struggle. It would be stupid of me to turn up to a metagame with heavy bolters when I know that most of my opponents use mech. Or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob524 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If you play against anyone more then your best friend it's cheating, throwing in more meltaguns to deal with the prevailing mech of 5th edition is good playing throwing in flamers to deal with one ork army then taking them out for any other is extremely rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 If you play against anyone more then your best friend it's cheating, throwing in more meltaguns to deal with the prevailing mech of 5th edition is good playing throwing in flamers to deal with one ork army then taking them out for any other is extremely rude i agree with this statement, but that wasnt the aim of this thread.. heres a guy who cant beat his friends orks and wants help to that end.. if he cant beat orks, he will struggle against nids too. i dont like tailoring for each game, that would be cheating.. but helping someone who plays against orks only.. thats his 'loca meta' and its a different story. an all rounder list should be the aim of every person, but in some cases tailoring is ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 If you play against anyone more then your best friend it's cheating, throwing in more meltaguns to deal with the prevailing mech of 5th edition is good playing throwing in flamers to deal with one ork army then taking them out for any other is extremely rude I agree with you as well, but to be fair, flamers should be the choice of weapon anyway. Cheaper than plasma and will normally do as well due to sheer amount of wounds they can inflict. A good all rounders Space Marine army IMO should have plenty of flamers and melta, with perhaps a demo cannon or plasma squad for the odd Terminator squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob524 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 melta is better then flamer and demo cannons should never be in a list, the same with that plasma squad but that's another arguement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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