wise_crak Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 Let me settle this, Me and my friend are always trying to better each other, Expecially when it comes to games his guard army beat me twice and now he wants orks, so I was curious to what beats orks for that reason, It's a friendly game and we tailor to beat each other, his guard army would hidden melta my transport them gun down the troops and I'm sure his orks will be made to beat space marines it's just how we play, an example would be a fighting game we use to play I know he would go for lots of weaker attacks and just throw loads of punches kicks blasts etc so I couldn't hurt him so I would go for powerful single shots to get as much damage in any chance I got! So what I'm saying is we will always be playing against each other so there's no point me loading out with las cannons and as our list will both be tailored it will balance out Now let's shake this thread back to how and what we use to blow up the xeno scum that are orks Wisey :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Tailoring lists is only a problem if one person does it and the other doesn't. If two people set up to play each other each knowing what the other one's type of army is, they should both just make a list based around the opponent. Both people can't help but keep in mind what they're fighting and are going to change what they bring from game to game, so trying to pretend that you don't and figuring 'well if I only take 2 flamers instead of 3 it's not really tailoring' just leads to pointless lack of fun. It's only a problem if one guy is using a general list and the other is tailoring specifically for his army, or worse his specific list, since it ends up giving one guy an unfair advantage. And even then it's not an absolute rule, there's certainly nothing wrong with a guy saying 'here's my tournament list, try to break it any way you can' to work on how to deal with it's weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob524 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 no players should make a take all comers list and not be scrubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 no players should make a take all comers list and not be scrubs OK this is seriously side tracking now, but my apologies to the OP for the next wall of text. If the OP wants to make a list that can take on his friend's Ork list then who are you to judge? Sounds like friendly competition between friends to me. If you don't like it then state you don't like it and your reasons as to why you don't like, but statements like the above don't help anyone. By the sounds of it the OP wants to be able to compete with his friend's Ork list. Are you seriously saying that he should take melta throughout his squads to take on a horde army? All you're doing then is disadvantaging yourself, adding flamers to combat Orks is not tailoring, it's just being sensible. As for all comers, what is all comers? A list that can deal with any army? But is this every army in the game, or every army at your metagame. Why should I include units and weapons that can deal with Ork hordes when there are none, but rather lots of Marines? Should I not bring weapons along to combat them, everyone else will be. Why should I field lots of melta when everyone runs Ork and Nid horde? Surely flamers is the better, and sensible option. Furthermore, are you not tailoring your own list for mech. Earlier you said that the only weapon worth taking is melta. Fantastic against vehicles, MCs, Terminators, and to an extent MEQ. Not so great against hordes. So an excellent choice for mech Marine lists. But is that not tailoring to those lists as well? How are you going to stop me from fielding a list that isn't an all comers list in your eyes? If you looked at my list you'd probably conclude that it is all comers. It can deal with hordes, it can deal with Marines, it can deal with mech. But it's "tailored" to some degree, to my playstyle, and my local gaming group. But not to any one specific player. In my view, that's fine. Or am I just scrub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob524 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I really need to explain what tailoring is to you? Wow thats bad. Tailoring is not making an army to play to the meatgame, for instance in 5th edition transports are rapant and as such meltaguns and autocannons are great. No tailoring is walking into your lgs finding an opponent and finding out what they play, then writing out a list to counter them, that is cheating and an opponent I would walk away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boyz Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 If you guys wanna start a NEW thread to debate 'tailoring', go ahead. *yawn* Dis thread is about how Marine armies fight and defeat Orks. That's what I am reading it for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 If you guys wanna start a NEW thread to debate 'tailoring', go ahead. *yawn* Dis thread is about how Marine armies fight and defeat Orks. That's what I am reading it for. My apologies, I won't be saying anything else on the matter. Incidentally, not sure if it's been mentioned but for those who are looking for more information on how to tackle Orks, as well as insights into the army Shadowstalker Grim has a fantastic 101 with a section on Orks found here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=214889 It's helpful in giving you a good, solid understanding of Orks and will help you plan accordingly. I will also say that while it's important to bring your flamers and heavy bolters, don't forget your autocannons and missiles so that you can bring down their tanks. While Orks are capable of fielding a horde army they are just as capable of fielding a mech army, and still have lots of guys left to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boyz Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Yes, most Ork armies around here rely on Battlewagons (2-3) and also use outflanking 'Snikrot' led Kommando units. BW are only AV 12 on the side, so go get them. BUT they will almost always have a 4+ Force Field save. Kommandos led by Snikrot (an 85 pt upgrade - popular for a reason!) can 'ambush' by coming out of reserve on any board edge. Can be trouble for your rifleman, scout objective sitters, etc. They are usually run with 2 flamers, so they will charge you with 2 power weapons (Snikrot does not come with a powerclaw - but does have a slew of attacks and a negative effect on your morale roll). That 101 link is a good read. (ps - darkguard sorry if I came off sounding like a jerk!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (ps - darkguard sorry if I came off sounding like a jerk!) No you didn't, I understand the position you were coming from and we shouldn't have de-railed the thread. Again I apologize. Now lets get back to talking about how to kill Orks :devil:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 BW are only AV 12 on the side, so go get them. BUT they will almost always have a 4+ Force Field save. more importantly they are AV10 rear, and KFF doesnt work in assault.. my tri-melta storms love battlewagons :sweat: heres a cheeky way to rid orks.. its something i pulled off a while back, my opponent didnt like it one bit though. i used a storm team to blow up a BW with thier meltas, when the warboss and nob squad disembarked i charged them with the 5 man scout squad, BUT i made sure one of the scouts charged a nearby lootas squad who were also being charged my my captain and ten ccw scouts.. the ccw scouts did so many casualties to the lootas that despite losing the storm squad to the nobs, they lost overall combat and fled off the board.. most nob squads are less than ten man, force Ld checks and make them run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Try charging a Rhino with a combat squadded Tactical squad at a mob of Slugga/Shoota boys. Shoot the flamer/Combi-Flamer, kill a bunch. Wait for the mob to charge you (They won't always, but if they don't you can carry on running around flaming things, if you don't get shot) it won't always work, but if the Rhino explodes, thats a buttload of new dead Orks. Then hopefully your squad will still be mostly intact, and ready for some more flaming/assaulting next turn. If you have a Captain with a combi flamer with them, you'll get even more out of it. I did this recently and hit about 20 Orks with the Rhino explosion alone. Unfortunately dismal dice rolls meant that only 2 died, but theres a bit of potential there. Edit: Just wanted to mention that the idea isn't to have your rhino blown up as such, if you move 12'' then they PK Nob needs a 6 to hit anyway, but if they do charge they'll be nicely clumped up for the next turn of flaming and you'll likely get a cover save versus Ork shooting. Quite a cheap/useful distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 the detracting argument to that would be if the orks surrounded and wrecked the rhino.. that would seriously ruin your day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 i love using my orks against marines...my advice-lots and lots of pie plates! (vindis and whirlwinds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 the detracting argument to that would be if the orks surrounded and wrecked the rhino.. that would seriously ruin your day You still get to flame and assault them next turn after they bunch up attacking the Rhino... But yeah it isn't a game winning tactic, but it can buy you some time/work pretty well. Just going from game experience rather than what sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 the detracting argument to that would be if the orks surrounded and wrecked the rhino.. that would seriously ruin your day You still get to flame and assault them next turn after they bunch up attacking the Rhino... ummm, no becuase youd be destroyed, if they surround the rhino and wreck it, you can disembark, therefore the unit inside is destroyed.. i use that tactic alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 You still get to flame and assault them next turn after they bunch up attacking the Rhino... Only if they're dumb enough to bunch up attacking the rhino. If they're smart, they use their 12" of movement (6" move and 6" charge) to get all around the rhino that you moved within 6" or so of them to get flamer hits with. If they have guys within an inch of all 3 exit points, you can't disembark anywhere when the vehicle is destroyed, so your squad dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Im gonna go sit in the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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