Hitting the table feet-first

[Uhric_Duval]

As a long time fan of power armor, I've had the pleasure of playing three variations of space marines over the years (BT, Crimson Fists, and Chaos). Each and every one of them is a slight variation on the mech theme that is so prevalent in todays meta. I've wanted to try PA build for awhile that dispenses with the whole mechanized style, mainly b/c I'm tired of building rhino after rhino. With the BA one could do the DOA style army, but BA are as numerous as skaven in my area. With the release of the GK codex, I've seen some possibilities of having a non-mech army within the codex.

 

So i ask the longtime DH players and those who've extensively studied the new codex, is an effective non-mech build possible with this book? Or at least a minimal amount of armor (no rhinos).

[Inquisitor Fox]

Personally... well you might be able to do a deep strike thing with lots of psycannons. Really the problem is the vast majority of Inquisition firepower is very short ranged. The long range firepower is on Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Razorbacks, or Dreadnoughts, everything else is stormbolter range. The chief problem will be advancing into firepower range without getting too chewed up by long range weaponry or losing too many models. This means either lots of judicious use of cover, teleportation, or transport. That and being able to rapidly redeploy to claim objectives or get to trouble spots or the like.

 

Failing that, well, more boots on the ground is almost always a good thing :devil:

[Joasht]

This is a good chance to start a discussion about the GKSS and their ability to actually Deepstrike - something the Purifiers and Purgation Squads cannot do.

 

You could, in theory, have an entire deep striking army - everything in TDA can deep strike (GK HQ choices, Paladins, Terminators), anything with Teleporters can as well (Dreadknight, Interceptors), GKSS, and in a sense, Vindicare/Callidus Assassin (Infiltrate and Polymorphine, although IMO polymorphine is just bad). Oh and the Stormraven.

 

You could go one of two routes: Stormraven or non-Stormraven, with the former being immensely risky but pretty scary when pulled off, but I'm personally not a fan of that. If you go without SRs, this means that you are almost forced to take no armor - any armor you take (e.g. Dreads) will have every single anti-armor weapon pointed at it, and they will evaporate quickly unless you, say, take Venerable Psyfles and hide them properly.

 

The whole issue is the poor dependability of the army. Servo Skull spam makes it a little more reliable, like a BA army, but theres still some risk involved. To reduce the variables even more you need to take Mystics and Teleport Homers, but its not easy to squeeze them in.

 

The other issue is the risk of the units not showing up on time. You may want to invest in a GM or Inquisitor for Psychic Communion - you could, for example, take an Inquisitor, give him Psychic Communion, but a Henchmen squad with a Mystic and keep them separate. Your Inquisitor will sit somewhere at the back (Hellrifle for the win?) upkeeping Communion, while the Henchmen squad can just run up (or, take a Rhino, pray you get the first turn and rush forward 12") to act as a Teleport Homer.

[evileyevirtue]

Another neat-o option in the codex is the librarian with his summoning power. I'm thinking about starting a termy list and having 2 librarians that can chain summon across the board... which in my opinion would be awesome. The obvious downside is that it's a psychic power, so up against an eldar farseer it might be a problem, but against almost all other armies, it can be potentially awesome. "I'm gonna use this librarian to summon my termies with the other librarian... and then when he's placed I'm gonna summon another unit of termies across the board..."

 

You can obviously use this as well to drop in some supporting units as well... like the purifiers or purgation squad to help out. I love the librarian in the new codex... he's cheap and his powers are dirt cheap. If you take 2 your turn powers and 2 his turn powers... BAM! you can be using 4 per game turn and they're pretty awesome powers to boot.

[Joasht]

Another neat-o option in the codex is the librarian with his summoning power. I'm thinking about starting a termy list and having 2 librarians that can chain summon across the board... which in my opinion would be awesome. The obvious downside is that it's a psychic power, so up against an eldar farseer it might be a problem, but against almost all other armies, it can be potentially awesome. "I'm gonna use this librarian to summon my termies with the other librarian... and then when he's placed I'm gonna summon another unit of termies across the board..."

 

My concern with summoning is that it is also a Deep Strike, but because the models are not "arriving" but are merely being relocated, you cannot use Mystics, Servo Skulls or Teleport Homers to increase the accuracy of the Deep Strike. Some would argue all over the place about the exact ruling on Summoning, but lets not derail this thread....

[Uhric_Duval]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I posted a list in the Inquisition army list forum for review based on some of the suggestions made.

 

Man, if the teleport homer really could prevent the scattering from the summoning, that would be excellent. But ill operate on the notion for now that it doesn't.

 

I saw another DS list that used techmarines to add more servo skulls to the army and to act as fire support with conversion beamers. I thought this was a neat idea since, as Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen pointed out, theres very few non-mech units with long ranged weaponry.

[Joasht]

I saw another DS list that used techmarines to add more servo skulls to the army and to act as fire support with conversion beamers. I thought this was a neat idea since, as Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen pointed out, theres very few non-mech units with long ranged weaponry.

 

Techmarines are not a bad thing per-se in the GK codex as they are IC's and are one of the "shooty" options we have, but it does take an Elite slot and thus competes with many of our very good options. In addition I'm not a massive fan of the Conversion Beamer. Its ideal range is very long, and most would fall into its second range band. That combined with the general lack of mobility (no bikes for the GK Techmarine) means you get a VERY EXPENSIVE gun thats no harder to kill than a normal Space Marine. The Orbital Strike is even more expensive and suffers from almost useless accuracy.

 

If you go completely armor-less and are looking for some long ranged guns, perhaps consider investing in an Inquisitorial Devastator Squad. Inquisitor (possibly Hellrifle and Psychic Communion to get your Deep Strikes more controlled) in a squad with three Plasma Cannon Servitors, a bunch of monkeys and some Acolytes as ablative wounds. Not very expensive, an effective range of 36", and quite a few heavy guns.

[Captain Psycho]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I posted a list in the Inquisition army list forum for review based on some of the suggestions made.

 

Man, if the teleport homer really could prevent the scattering from the summoning, that would be excellent. But ill operate on the notion for now that it doesn't.

 

I saw another DS list that used techmarines to add more servo skulls to the army and to act as fire support with conversion beamers. I thought this was a neat idea since, as Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen pointed out, theres very few non-mech units with long ranged weaponry.

 

Hey Uhric_Duval - that's my list in the subforum, and is the second version of a 1,500 all DS list I posted (the first had 3 x techmarines with OSRs instead of conversion beamers but as someone pointed out on this thread they are very inaccurate). I'm trying to run all DS because it takes me forever to paint so if I can start with ~30 models and no vehicles I might actually get to play GKs this year!

 

As Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen pointed out, one problem with a non-mech GK list is that so much of the GK long range firepower is mech-based, and it just so happens that this is also most of the low AP firepower in the Codex. On top of that, GKs can't do melta spam like a BA DoA list can, while I think psycannons are fine against most of the transports out there, deep-striking anywhere near a Predator or a Lehman Russ is a whole other story. Now you could include some Psyrifle Dreads in your list - but I'm a big believer that you go all mech or not at all, those Dreads are going to draw all of the low AP firepower because there's no other armored targets on the board and unless you get lucky with terrain you don't have transports blocking part of your Dreads giving you cover saves.

 

I want to try conversion beamers because they have long range (in fact they're better with it), the BS of the firer reduces scatter and if the target is within 12" inches of a servo skull the scatter is reduced to 1D6 which reduces max scatter to 2" when fired by a Inquisitor or a Techmarine, and it just so happens that both can take 3 servo skulls at 3 points a piece. I'll deploy the shooters behind cover reinforced by the Techmarines and target priority will be targets across the board (remember most boards are longer than they are wide so firing from one corner at another is a much easier way to keep the range 48" for that S10 blast). Also - Xenos Inquisitors can take psychic communion and open up mystics (just not sure how to get them in to a useful position other than inside a rhino or chimera as you did in the list you posted).

 

I don't know how well this list will do until I play test but I'll be the first to admit that all DS is going to be much harder to pull off than mech, but by 2012 I should have gotten around to painting enough rhinos, storm ravens and land raiders to do the other list I have in mind. That should be right around the time 6th ed. comes along and nerfs mech.

[Uhric_Duval]

Well ill get around to playtesting my first list and see how it goes.

 

On the matter of interceptors, how would you outfit them to back up the rest of your forces? Or would you make them the main attack front? I think an interceptors mobility is crucial in any sort of DS list.

[Drachnon]

When I add interceptors I'm planning to equip them as I did with my strike squads:

10 interceptors with

1 daemon hammer

4 halberds

2 psycannons

 

combat squad into a unit with the hammer and halberds and a unit with 3 normal interceptors plus the two psycannons.

 

My tactic will be to use the 30" jump to place the psycannons somewhere they have sight on side armor of enemy tanks or if that's not possible somewhere they can get cover.

The other unit will try to jump behind a building to charge something scary. Or when fighting against a horde army jump into 24" stormbolter range and start shooting.

[number6]

I think any valid all foot list is going to have to take Coteaz and utilize Inq Warbands for all the Troops. You need Crusaders for survivable saves and other members for the melta guns you simply must have. These units will also screen your GK units, which will be the support units of the army. GKs will do most of the assaulting, but they're still only going to be support units. Coteaz and Inq bands will have to be the meat if you want to make all foot GK codex army lists work against all comers.