BA vs GK

[Zeller]

So last night at the LGS I had a game with a guy that wanted to try his poops and laughs GK 1500 point list. The idea what to have as few models as possible. He had 7. I was a bit concerned. Annihilation, standard deployment.

 

He ran:

Draigo

Grand master: psychotropic grenades, brain leecher worms (not sure if that's correct), and a few other things I don't recall

Dreadknight with the large blast psycannon and the flame weapon that works like the hellhound, and shunt

4 Paladins, 3 of which had warding staves.

3 servo skulls

 

I had:

Reclusiarch

Tactical: ML, F, Rhino

Tactical: HB, M, Rhino

DC (9): TH, PF, PW, HF, Rhino

3 MMAB

3 LS: 3HB, TML

Baal Pred: HB, SB

Vindy: Shield

Destructor: HB, SB

 

Again, just for fun. He deployed the dreadknight and reserved the rest as 1 paladin, 1 paladin, 1 paladin, paladin + HQs. I had a solid row of vehicles with the MMAB poised in the middle ready to go left or right depending on where the DK went. The dreadknight shunted in the scout move, jumped in turn 1, and shot at my speeders shaking them. Dear lord a 1st turn assault from a termifexassaultinatormarineknight is scary. Fortunately the DC were right in front of said DK and disembarked and charged. Bear in mind my entire army (minus the tacticals which drove forward to remove the servo skulls) literally shot the thing and did 1 wound. He had some mad TDA saves going on this game. DC charge, strike first, lose 2 in the counterattack, and then the PF and TH turn that DK into a fleshy bag of fertilizer.

 

Unfortunately for the GK player his guys came in piecemeal which was great for me. Unfortunately it still took my entire army's shooting to do a single wound to the paladins and then the DC to charge and finish them off. When the HQ unit came down their little stat reducing wargear was brutal. The MMAB got charged and destroyed. I spaced everything out, fired with everything again but this time I added the demolisher cannon. It was last to fire since it could have scattered onto either my DC, 2 tacticals, or a predator nearby so the risk wasn't worth the first shot. :tu: Anywho, even with few numbers these guys are scary when you don't have plasma/melta in sufficient quantities so watch out! Also, I'm not sure what to do about the shunting knight.

 

After the game we tested mephiston against his grand master. On average both guys were rerolling hits against each other due to transfixing gaze and/or the brain worms. Mephy did come out on top even when charged despite not having an invuln.

 

That's all I've got to share about that.

[Black_Sky]

Nice game. I always enjoy seeing people try out new and different armies than the coming cookie cutter lists we'll see in a few months.

 

If your friend really want to gimp himself, he should get draigo and 6 units consisting of a single paladin apothecary with a brotherhood banner.

[Whitefireinferno]

Black Sky that would not work too well due to the Banner replacing the Force weapon I believe so the best part of it is wasted.

[Black_Sky]

Which is my point exactly :cuss.

[1Drop]

I'm just gonna plasma and melta the hell (or rather lack of it) out of the GK when I face them (melta gives them a hard time too right?)

[Liltom]

A meltagun can give ANYONE a bad time.

[Azza007]

Scrap what I said, didn't see the bit about Draigo making Paladins Troops.

[Black_Sky]

Vindicators will scare the hell out of paladins, that's a certainty. So will melta, while plasma will work equally effective against all the choices in the book bar heavy armour.

 

Also, only Crusaders and Draigo carry Storm Shields, so you won't encounter an army of 3+ inv. saves.

The Nemesis sword grants a +1 inv. save bonus in cc, the stave gives 2+ inv. in cc.

[1Drop]

I'm just gonna make sure I have a hell of a lot of melta and plasma options for when I face GK. I already have alot for anti tank etc, I'm not scaredof the GK at all, my 3rd company lead by Dante and Tyco with their melta ridden HG will have them running home to mamma.

[Tabgoi]

Well, I have not gotten all the way thru their codex in detail yet, real life jumped in the way, there are definately some units you want to watch out for more than others. Obviously the Vindicare is going to be an issue, they are just rough house if they can get LoS. The Librarians are able to wreck your best units and vehicles with an ease that is disgusting, but they really have to be in flame template range. Then you have the Brotherhood Champion who you do not want to kill in close combat with one of your leaders under ANY circumstance (he only has one wound though, very low for an IC HQ choice). There is also an issue with their regular Terminators only being 40 points each with their best upgrades costing nothing, or close to it. But as stated before the grey knights have almost no access to storm sheild so they are no where near as resiliant as you would think. In addition their dread knights have their best anti-horde ranged weapons, but they hit two hundred points at the drop of a hat, and can break 300 fully kitted out.

 

If you can deal with their Vindicares quickly and efficiently then they lose a lot of what makes them scary for us or space wolves. Their ability to deal with vehicles is not good, and vindis will make a mess of them in short order. Same with plasma and melta. The codex is solid, and they can hold their own against anyone, but they are devistating against psykers and demons. They just are not as scary as everyone made them out to be.

[Zeller]

I'm curious though how many folks are going to bring TDA as opposed to PA.

[Tabgoi]

Well, depends on how much they fear DOA. Only Strike Squads and Interceptor Squads have the Warp Quake psychic power that kicks deep strike right in the family jewels. But I would expect a lot of players to field a minimal amount of Interceptor Squads in order to protect their force from DOA, and to get the mobility of the personal transporters, and to use TDA for the primary grunt work.

[Black_Sky]

You can also be sure to see xenos inquisitors banded together with paladins, to protect them from rapid firing plasma death.

[Malus the Destroyer]

Bubble wrap vs the dreadknight shunt. IG does it all the time. I know it's hard to nominate a suicide unit, but it's better than those things doing as they please round 1 assaulting.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

A meltagun can give ANYONE a bad time.

 

You forgot about the Avatar.

[1Drop]

A meltagun can give ANYONE a bad time.

 

You forgot about the Avatar.

 

?

[Drachnon]

were those paladins seperate? because he can only have 1 warding staff per squad.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

A meltagun can give ANYONE a bad time.

 

You forgot about the Avatar.

 

?

 

Meltagun cannot harm the avater ;)

[Wicksy]

A meltagun can give ANYONE a bad time.

 

You forgot about the Avatar.

 

?

Avatar's are immune to melta guns ;)

 

To the OP, make sure he ran those paladins as seperate units because only 1 per unit can take the stave, though in that setup with Draigo it was legal as long as he ran them as at least 3 seperate unit.s

[Zeller]

They were separate units.

[Tabgoi]

Bubble wrap vs the dreadknight shunt. IG does it all the time. I know it's hard to nominate a suicide unit, but it's better than those things doing as they please round 1 assaulting.

 

They cannot round one assault. The teleporter specifically says that is they use it for the 30" move they cannot assault. I don't have my dex here at class (my brother plays them, know your enemy and such) but I am pretty sure they even put it in bold type, though I may have been imagining that.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Bubble wrap vs the dreadknight shunt. IG does it all the time. I know it's hard to nominate a suicide unit, but it's better than those things doing as they please round 1 assaulting.

 

They cannot round one assault. The teleporter specifically says that is they use it for the 30" move they cannot assault. I don't have my dex here at class (my brother plays them, know your enemy and such) but I am pretty sure they even put it in bold type, though I may have been imagining that.

 

So long as they are shunting in their Scout Move their fine.

[Zeller]

^ Exactly.

 

Now take 3 NDK and place them as far forward and out of sight as possible and wait for turn 1. GK literally have the ability to pick and choose exactly where they want to fight from the very first turn. Unless the enemy holds everything in reserve something will die. That said holding in reserve against GK only hurts you as it's far easier to deal with fewer units of them than an entire group of TDA or otherwise moving on your position. Place your vehicles as far back as possible unless they are rhinos. Keep the rhinos forward enough and space enough to allow troops to disembrak should the need arise due to damage. Also, I don't think the NDK has grenades of any kind so maybe dozer blades and sitting in cover for the first turn while they shunt woudn't hurt.

 

I think it's time to theme an army around weapons entirely composed of AP 1 and 2. Bolters excluded.

[Tabgoi]

Bubble wrap vs the dreadknight shunt. IG does it all the time. I know it's hard to nominate a suicide unit, but it's better than those things doing as they please round 1 assaulting.

 

They cannot round one assault. The teleporter specifically says that is they use it for the 30" move they cannot assault. I don't have my dex here at class (my brother plays them, know your enemy and such) but I am pretty sure they even put it in bold type, though I may have been imagining that.

 

So long as they are shunting in their Scout Move their fine.

 

Only for the Interceptor squads as they are treated as Jump Infantry. The dread night is a normal monstrous creature, without fleet. So even is a Grand Master gives it the scout special rule it must remain "more than 12" away from the closest enemy". Since its threat range is only 12 inches it cannot enter close combat on the first turn unless your opponent is cheating. If the rule had said it must stay 12 inches then no problem, but it says more than twelve inches, so no first turn assaults for the Dread Knight.

[Zeller]

Okay. Deploy. Scout move using shunt to say 13 inches away. Now, turn 1. Jump 12 inches. Assault. First turn assault. Um, now I'm concerned that I've been cheated. The NDK can shunt but doesn't count as jump infantry afterward? Only the Interceptors count as jump infantry?