Glaives Encarmine

[Atrix]

I wouldn't ever take one over a Power Weapon or Lightning Claw, given the choice, but I'm okay with them in the hands of the Sanguinary Guard.

Correct me if I am wrong:

There is only 1 model outside of SG that can choose the GE and that is the VV Sergeant. If I give the VV Sergeant a SS, I would never give him a PW over a GE.

 

Yes, if you're gonna use 1 hand for a SS, the Glaive is better than a Power sword. However, the Lightning Claw is even better in my opinion. What it really comes down to is how many attacks you have and what opponent you engage i.e. what you have to roll to hit and to wound (and here of course furious charge will affect the results).

 

I have some numbers on the different combinations I could post if anyone is interested.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It's a double handed power weapon that can reroll one attack to hit. It's not bad at all when taken en masse such as a squad of Sanguinary Guard. The banner gets you back your +1A so it's all good as far as I'm concerned

 

G :ph34r:

[vahouth]

IMO, i believe that two handed weapons will get a general rule for all two handed weapons. Something like +1 - 2 str or maybe an initiative boost. That way, all glaves, axes, relic blades, large choppas and various other recent weapons act the same. Otherwise, glaives indeed are the weakest close combat weapon.

 

 

That's also my guess. We'll just have to wait for 6th Edition to be sure. ;)

[knife&fork]

It's a double handed power weapon that can reroll one attack to hit. It's not bad at all when taken en masse such as a squad of Sanguinary Guard. The banner gets you back your +1A so it's all good as far as I'm concerned

 

I think it's nice when the writers try to do something unique while keeping the codex creep to a minimum, that's one thing you have to give Matt Ward. With a few exceptions almost everything in the codex have a pretty good balance of strengths and weaknesses. Lack of IC status, invul saves, wargear limitations and so on.

Let's be honest, the sang guard is good despite having the glavie, not because of it. Just saying that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Gv0zD]

Plain and simple, I like GE. I take SG with only GE, I have my VV sarge with GE (which the same as single lc, and I don't take those in pairs). Re-rolls are good. And two-handed sword on my Vet looks awesome ;)

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Plain and simple, I like GE. I take SG with only GE, I have my VV sarge with GE (which the same as single lc, and I don't take those in pairs). Re-rolls are good. And two-handed sword on my Vet looks awesome ^_^

 

Does he have a shield or something? You are after all making him worse on purpose.

[Red Fury]

Without a shield along with the Glaive, the only other real reason to take one is for wound allocation shenanigans.

 

Sarg - GE

VV - LC

VV - LC + MB

VV - PW

VV - PW + MB

 

All different kit so to maximize the cheese.

 

Well that...and the rule of cool of course. A huge two handed greatsword is pretty damn cool.

[Gv0zD]

Does he have a shield or something? You are after all making him worse on purpose.

Worse than whar? The same sarge with single LClaw? I don't think so. PW gets additional attack, but with GE I get re-rolls. It's a fair trade imho. The wound allocation also matters here. With GE and LC in one squad I have different models without taking meltabombs. Or shields, which I consider too pricey (I already pay 405 pts for my 10 vanguard vets, no space for further upgrades there)

[Atrix]

Does he have a shield or something? You are after all making him worse on purpose.

Worse than whar? The same sarge with single LClaw? I don't think so. PW gets additional attack, but with GE I get re-rolls. It's a fair trade imho. The wound allocation also matters here. With GE and LC in one squad I have different models without taking meltabombs. Or shields, which I consider too pricey (I already pay 405 pts for my 10 vanguard vets, no space for further upgrades there)

 

Well if you compare the Glaive to Power sword + CCW, with the former you get an extra dice to roll if you miss an attack, with the latter you always get an extra dice to roll.

[SevenExxes]

With the Sanguinary Guard, the Angelus boltguns are assault 2 AP 4 weapons not pistols.

So if the Glaives were one-handed weapons you'd still only get the same ammount of attacks.

If the Sanguinary Guard took pistols and Glaives were one-handed then they would get 3 attacks each, 4 on the charge and 5 with the banner.

How it is now, it's 4 attacks each on the charge with the banner/flag that gives that extra +1 attack.

 

So if the Sanguinary Guard attacked a ten man unit they would get 20 attacks, which should be more than enough.

Having the Glaives a one-handed weapon and the Sanguinary Guard using pistols instead of Angelus bolters they would get 25 attacks. That's a little overpowered I think.

But if you -really- want that extra five attacks you could always throw The Sanguinor in there and make sure he is always within 6" of the charging Sanguinary Guard.

 

Now for the Vanguard Veterans. They can take 2 ccw's already, increasing thier attacks from 2 to 3 and 4 each on the charge.

That's 16 attacks not including the Sargeant. If the Sargeant takes a Glaive Encarmine, then he gets 3 attacks on the charge and re-rolls any attacks that failed to hit.

I'm not going to miss that extra attack, especially since a 5 man Vangard Veterans unit can, in theory, assault a 20 man unit finishing them off with a sweeping advance.

 

I spelt Sargeant wrong. Sue me.

~Edit~ The VV Sgt can re-roll one attack that misses, not any attack that misses.

[knife&fork]

Mastercrafted only allows one rerolled attack. A lot of people seems to have missed this. It's also the reason why a lightning claw is better in most cases specially since rerolling hits is a buff anyone can get from any chaplain while rerolling wounds are only for DC.

[SevenExxes]

Oh man, I meant to edit that! Doh!

 

~Edit~ Fixed my last post. Except for that spelling of Sargeant. I can't be bothered checking on how to spell it, I just know it's wrong.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Does he have a shield or something? You are after all making him worse on purpose.

Worse than whar? The same sarge with single LClaw? I don't think so. PW gets additional attack, but with GE I get re-rolls. It's a fair trade imho. The wound allocation also matters here. With GE and LC in one squad I have different models without taking meltabombs. Or shields, which I consider too pricey (I already pay 405 pts for my 10 vanguard vets, no space for further upgrades there)

 

Well if you compare the Glaive to Power sword + CCW, with the former you get an extra dice to roll if you miss an attack, with the latter you always get an extra dice to roll.

 

 

No, you get a single re-roll with the Glaive. As you (potentially) get mor re-rolls out of the claw, it is far better.

[Gv0zD]

That's true, LC rerolls always, and GE only once per turn. Butas it was mentioned already, there are also wound allocation reasons. And rule of cool, too. I personally love greatswords. So Sarge with such sword looks more badass :o

I use GE and they performed fine for me. It's not the relic balde, it's not the LC, but it gives my army more BA flavor.

[Atrix]

Does he have a shield or something? You are after all making him worse on purpose.

Worse than whar? The same sarge with single LClaw? I don't think so. PW gets additional attack, but with GE I get re-rolls. It's a fair trade imho. The wound allocation also matters here. With GE and LC in one squad I have different models without taking meltabombs. Or shields, which I consider too pricey (I already pay 405 pts for my 10 vanguard vets, no space for further upgrades there)

 

Well if you compare the Glaive to Power sword + CCW, with the former you get an extra dice to roll if you miss an attack, with the latter you always get an extra dice to roll.

 

 

No, you get a single re-roll with the Glaive. As you (potentially) get mor re-rolls out of the claw, it is far better.

 

Yeah, thats what I meant, sorry. You get one (and only one) extra dice to roll if any of your attacks miss.

[Leksington]

No, you get a single re-roll with the Glaive. As you (potentially) get mor re-rolls out of the claw, it is far better.

This is not universally true. In general, the LC does better. But the GE does (marginally) outperform the LC against T3 creatures.

 

And "far better" is relative:

-Against T4 creatures, the LC and GE perform equally with 3 attacks, and the LC causes an extra 1/8th a wound with 2 attacks.

-Against T5 creatures, the LC will cause an extra 1/6th a wound with 3 attacks, and an extra 1/18th a wound with 2 attacks.

 

 

Prorate any of those differences over 5 turns of combat and you never gain more than a fraction of 1 wound. 0-1 extra wounds a game is hardly 'far better' iin my opinion.

 

Edit: And remember that we are talking about a single model here, not army wide equipment. It is unlikely that you will field more than 2 VV sergeants.

[fivepointedstar]

everyone forget that one thing BA have that SM don't are the Sang priests. with their blood chalice we could add +1 to int, and +1 to str. so if Matt made it over powered he would have had relic blade with a base str 6 but with an added sang priest we'd have str 7 swords, and that only for mephy, and the sanguinor. since there abnormals.

[Leonaides]

Not quite DeathKinght... Relic Blade is only ever S6. Furious charge has no effect on the S of a weapon with a specified S.

[fivepointedstar]

yeah a relic blade is a two handed PW that grants the SM a + 2 in STR. But If Matt had given BA to what SM has ie. a relic blade with that given str 6 already then along comes a SP to again modify the STR 6 up +1 to STR 7. thats what im saying. To balance the difference like Matt Ward tends to do, is have our SG with rerolls and with out the extra attack due to the fact that BA can add in up to 3 SP per elite slot. and distribute them into any unit that allows a leader to be added. With that SP there skill grant FnP, and Furious charge so that the reason there were no relic added to codex: BA.

[JamesI]

yeah a relic blade is a two handed PW that grants the SM a + 2 in STR. But If Matt had given BA to what SM has ie. a relic blade with that given str 6 already then along comes a SP to again modify the STR 6 up +1 to STR 7. thats what im saying. To balance the difference like Matt Ward tends to do, is have our SG with rerolls and with out the extra attack due to the fact that BA can add in up to 3 SP per elite slot. and distribute them into any unit that allows a leader to be added. With that SP there skill grant FnP, and Furious charge so that the reason there were no relic added to codex: BA.

But relic blades aren't +2 strength. They are strength 6. Furious Charge only affects their initative. Just like Corbulo, AStorath and Seth all have their attacks made at a set strength regardless of Furious Charge.