Eorek Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 You can skip this part if you can't be arsed reading. So... The new Grey knights have been released... My eyes were instantly set upon the purifier order (cleansing flame... cheap halbeards... extra attacks...). As I looked through the HQ choices to find a good way of playing them (first thought was using the grand strategy to make them scoring) I found him, Castellan Crowe made the purifiers troops... At first I thought that castellan crowe only lacked a tatoo in is forehead that said "awesome"... but when I looked closer at him I noticed more and more weird things about him... He lacked the Independant character rule... makeing him a loner just like some blood angels we know of(captain psycho, Mephiston and the sanguinor) ... Only thing was he lacks the survivability and awesome melée power of the sanguinor and mephiston, he lacks an alternative profile as captain psycho... And with his normal toughness, captain like saves (2+/4++) and mere 2 wounds he seems like an easy target ... So I read more into his rules and noticed; ...He lacks a proper power weapon (this weapon does give people that attack him som nice bonuses on the charge though). Sure he has some nice rules... Like the special rules he gets from being a brotherhood champion... But apart from the fact that he makes purifiers troops he's like a expensive brotherhood champion with more buffed up stats without a powerweapon... So how my question is as follows: How would you use Castellan Crowe? I've been thinking about taking him to get troop purifiers and then throwing him into some big c'tan, deamon and die, or win while trying too : >... He just seems clumsy to use (can't transport + easy killpoint + weird melée rules) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hold him in reserve and then walk his arse into cover, where he will hide, uh, I mean "direct the battle," for the rest of the game. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Also thought about that option... But I like actually using my models :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.M. Valens Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I don't remember anything saying this guy cannot be transported but I do see a few uses for him. 1) throw him at a moderately powerful unit to tie up indefinitely. He has the ability to reroll his saves if he does not attack so he can make a good tarpit. 2) if he does die he can pass a psychic test and take an enemy character with him. Not to bad if you ask me. But for the most part it sounds like you'd want to use him in a more defensive role (thought don't let yourself GET charged because your enemy getting rerolls to hit and furious charge would not be fun) The big question is: "Is he worth his points?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 He can be transported... Just not with a squad... So you'd have to dedicate a transport just for him As in give someone elses transport to him / give gim a personal Landraider/storm raven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hold him in reserve and then walk his arse into cover, where he will hide, uh, I mean "direct the battle," for the rest of the game. :D I feel like there has to be a way to use him effectively. Furthermore, why hide him off in a corner? It's not like your Purifiers will stop being troops once he is dead, and because of Heroic Sacrifice, even his death can accomplish a nice result (goodbye, Eternal Warrior model with loads of wounds!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomaflatchi Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I'd either run him at the hardest-hitting melee squad and use Blade Shield to tarpit them until you can get everyone else into position, or run him straight at the biggest, nastiest beastie on the board and take it down with Heroic Sacrifice. To me, he seems like his best use will be as a sacrificial lamb. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 He's a 150 point 'tax' to take the best GK PA unit as troops. About the best way to use him is somehow get him into combat, and use Cleansing Flame then drop into defensive stance to reroll his 2+/4++ saves. And hope you don't face too many power weapons/ID attacks. Getting him into combat is another matter entirely. If I had to, I'd probably use The Grand Straegy to give him Scout, Reserve him and Outflank him. Or in Kill Point missions, reserve him, delay him coming in by the GMs Psychic Communion, then hide him out of LoS somewhere. Great mini, great fluff. Abysmal rules... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Great mini, great fluff. Abysmal rules... So true. I'll probably get the model just to paint. He doesn't really fit into a henchman army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hell I plan on him looting a Chimera joining his brethren charging forward due to him charging is another use of the flames of crowd beat and if that will not be useful a tarpit with shield blades and heroic sacrifice for a 150 points he really is not that bad for a trade since most things your likely to send him after will cost a heap more than him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 hes not really that much of a tar pit really.....ya he gets to re roll that 4 plus save and all it takes is two bad rolls in a roll and the power fist sarge just killed him. he sits in the back and protects the rifle dreads lol. in kill points he is an easy kill point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I think he's a good SC, keeping in mind that SC are usually worst than "generic" characters. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t=0&start=0 I made my points here. He's an OTT Brotherhood Champion. If used well, he will earned his points/KP back. He can tarpit big units (an Ork boy has like 1/144th chance of wounding him if Crowe assaults, while Crowe will kill more than half the unit, almost wiping it out to "No Retreat"). Against most SC, HQ, MC, etc, he will bring them down with him, most of the time. Excellent, no. Awful? No! Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techmarine Harkus Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I personally would think the lack of 'Independant Character' to be an oversight. I'm basing this on the fact that a normal Brotherhood Champion has the IC rule and Titan's Herald includes the squad joined by said Champion. Rending on 4+ makes his sword far from 'not a power weapon'. What it isn't is a force weapon, but frankly the GK army is hardly lacking those elsewhere. Slight shame he can't make full use of the Titan's herald rule, if he is permantly a lone character. The main reason I wouldn't use a Brotherhood Champion is the points cost for a single wound model. Clearly if you are having him take on a big nasty, then you probably *want* him to die quickly so he can use heroic sacrifice. But he still has to get to the right place without losing that one wound. Crow has the same nice rules as a champion but gets a wound a WS and an I for his points increace and cleansing flame, which is probably one of the most useful powers in the book for countering a hoard. Not only could he hold up a huge mob of orks, but he could probably kill quite a lot of them off in the process while never actually landing a blow (rerollable 2+ or even 4++ is pretty crazy). Possibly a question for the FAQ, just incase the wording isn't what was intended, but by rending on 4+ that would make him fairly useful against tanks, but of course the rule says "..To Wound rolls of..." so presumably AP rolls are still only rending on a 6. He definitely holds a place for throwing into a hoard, or a single monster. In fact, in reading up this stuff to give my 2p I've convinced myself that I want him in my collection. Beforehand the nice model just wasn't good enough a reason to buy him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2710994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Didn't realise that he wasn't an independent character which makes him a lot less worthwhile, is it worth having him when he can be targeted so easily? Seems strange for him not to be an independent character, he's hardly the power house that Mephiston is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2711068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Incidentally, I noticed something about Crowe. His entry says, "In an army that includes Castellan Garran, Purifier Squads are Troops choices." What's the proper response to someone who says "You don't have Castellan Garran, you have Castellan Crowe"? Punch them in the face? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2711070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The main reason I wouldn't use a Brotherhood Champion is the points cost for a single wound model. Clearly if you are having him take on a big nasty, then you probably *want* him to die quickly so he can use heroic sacrifice. But he still has to get to the right place without losing that one wound. Transport aside, a BC would be atached to a unit, making it nearly impossible to pick him out and stop him gettign to the right place. Crowe unfortunately is easily torrented/plasma'd/ID before getting there. :tu: Incidentally, I noticed something about Crowe. His entry says, "In an army that includes Castellan Garran, Purifier Squads are Troops choices." What's the proper response to someone who says "You don't have Castellan Garran, you have Castellan Crowe"? Punch them in the face? Dreadsock! ;) Using Garran in the 'Keeper of Anarch' rule isn't the largest problem though. Crowe's description lists both names, so you can get around that. The biggest Dreadsock offense would be to argue that for both Crowe and Draigo, 'Keeper of Anarch' and 'Lord of Titan' aren't listed under thier Special rules, so you don't get them... :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2711071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Neither is dantes "the golden host" (Sanguinary guard) I belive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2711101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Cross-posting from the GK Troops discussion since this thread felt more appropriate: For fun I put together a Crowe and Purifier list (because I like the models and rules - sans the, well, sans-Independent Character rule on Crowe): HQ - 150ptsCrowe - 150pts Elites - 145pts Vindicare - 145pts Troops - 810pts Purifier Squad - 270pts -8 Knights -2 Psycannons -2 Daemonhammers (on anything but to the KotF so you won't lose one to your first Perils) -4 Halberds -Rhino Purifier Squad - 270pts -As above Purifier Squad - 270pts Heavy Support - 405pts Dreadnought - 135pts -TLAC -TLAC -Psybolt Ammunition Dreadnought -As above Dreadnought -As above 1510/2000pts 490pts left to spend. ...which actually didn't seem that bad, especially for what could potentially be a 1500pt list by removing a Daemonhammer here or there. The Vindicare is a personal choice, but removing him leaves 135pts in a 1500 list or 635pts in a 2000 list. Assuming the assassin was left in, here is what I saw as potential options for the remaining points: 1) Run a fourth squad of Purifiers and use the remaining points to max out the rest of the squads to 10 men each, perhaps even upgrading all the squads to Psybolt Ammunition 2) Run a kitted-out squad of Interceptors (315pts) and use the leftover points to maximize squad numbers as per suggestion #1 3) (Personal favorite) Buy a Librarian and attach him to Crowe and put them in a Stormraven. 'Raven moves up with Rhinos on turn one as everything pops smoke, leaving the Libby to cast Shrouding in the following Shooting phase and give 4-7 vehicles a 3+ cover save. From there, the 'Raven acts as a dedicated gunship, psychic defense placement, and overall distraction. Dropping the Vindicare opens up even more options, such as: 1) 4th Purifier squad AND kitted-out Interceptor squad 2) Librarian and 5-6 man Paladin squad, fully-kitted and geared for wound-allocation shenanigans. Their mission is to Deep Strike in and keep the opponent honest while the rest of the army moves forward. Alternatively, take a 10-man squad of regular Terminators for a 5th scoring unit. :P 3) Even larger squad of Terminators, but without access to Servo Skulls (this can be alleviated by taking a OXI and throwing him in with one of the Purifier units) 4) Three Venerable Psyflemen Dreads, just to add gas to the fire. :o I'm sure there are more ideas, but that's what came to me while typing this. Crowe is a small price to pay (except for maybe those games where the objective is to kill the enemy's most expensive HQ :)) but Purifiers are awesome enough (and relatively cheap, too, I might add) and supremely points-efficient - can you imagine a list with Crowe, 4 units of Purifiers, and five Psyflemen Dreads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 almost identical to the list I'm gonna run: > Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 (Personal favorite) Buy a Librarian and attach him to Crowe and put them in a Stormraven. You can't attach an IC to Crowe. :) As a unit of size 1, IC's are unable to join him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 already got the list made. 1998 pts by my count. tough list to argue against when you realize what it can do. not only is that 5 dreads, for a total of 20 twin linked S8 shots, you also have the vindicare hanging in the backfield with Crowe either hanging with him or moving up behind the rhinos causing his own mayhem. your up against a horde you say? no problem, 4 squads of purifiers will do some solid damage to any horde. go to 10 men squads and have ~100 left over if your doing 2500 pts. just my 2c Crowe Vindicare Venerable Psyrifle Dread Venerable Psyrifle Dread 7 Purifiers-2 Psycannons, Hammer, Halberds, Rhino 7 Purifiers-2 Psycannons, Hammer, Halberds, Rhino 6 Purifiers-2 Psycannons, Hammer, Halberds, Rhino 6 Purifiers-2 Psycannons, Hammer, Halberds, Rhino Psyrifle Dread Psyrifle Dread Psyrifle Dread Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Now that looks pure evil! >:) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 You can't attach an IC to Crowe. :) As a unit of size 1, IC's are unable to join him. Then Crowe gets to keep walking. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 You can't attach an IC to Crowe. :) As a unit of size 1, IC's are unable to join him. Then Crowe gets to keep walking. :) Still, stick the librarian in the purifier squad then when you get close to something use summoning to pull crowe out of cover and then hope he doesn't get killed before he can charge. ~Gil :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 As in, stick the Purifiers in the Stormraven with the Libby, and let Crowe use their Rhino? :ph34r: In any case I think I'm leaning more towards the double Venerable Dreads and bumping each squad to 9 members. Twenty S8 BS4/5 shots, twin-linked. :o It's worse if you use an Inquisitor and Strike Squads, or Coteaz and Chimeras. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226359-crowe/#findComment-2712450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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