Crowe...

[Eorek]

Just noticed about your list...don't purifiers need to be 10 man for 2 psycannons?

[hmk17]

While overall all I dislike the Brotherhood Champion... Crowe is barely better.

 

Crowe is redeemed by still being somewhat cheap, making Purifiers troops, and having 4+ rending to cover the lack of power/NF weapon. But it doesn't balance to Antwyr and the non-IC millstone. A tax is a little harsh word to use, at least a body comes with it.

 

 

If GW had given him +1 Wound, an Anointed Blade, made him an IC, given him basic rending... in addition to Purifiers troops and the other BCh stuff. That smells like a 190-200 point HQ on par with Vulkan, Pedro and Lenny.

 

 

 

Why GW, why? Why must we get crap because Ward has to make Grey Knights mechanically worse than his Ultramarines porn?

[Eorek]

Yea... love the model... love the fluff ... Having him as a 200 point HQ as you said would be awesome...

[Flinch]

My personal experiences with Crowe:

 

To everyone who tries to hide Crowe in the corner: Don't. If you're gonna take Crowe, use him, don't hide him. He's a brilliant anti-close-combat monster.

 

I originally planned to throw Crowe in a hijacked purifier rhino, but ended up teaming him up with a psybolt Assault cannon dread in a stormraven. The second stormraven has another dread and purifiers in it.

 

Believe it or not, it seems to work very well. My personal answer to the Crowe debate is: Take two stormravens and call me in the morning.

 

Using a fast assault vehicle gets you the charge often enough, and pairing him up with a dread helps with his survivability. Do the enemy shoot at crowe or the dread? I made the mistake once by charging a 10 man MEQ unit with crowe on his own in order to maximise on enemy models in B2B. Sure, he took out most of the unit. He still died to the champs attacks, and heroic sacrificed to be rid of him. Felt like a waste (even though he all but destroyed the unit).

 

Crowe also got charged by a dread in another game, got splattered by the DCCW and Heroic Sacrificed the dread. The wording said something like "model in base contact". Be in base contact with a Land Raider and remove it? Never got the chance, but that's how we read it.

 

In summary: Crowe is a 150 point special character that cannot join a unit. Treat him like that and work around his weaknesses. Throw him in close combat and make his death worth something.

[boreas]

That.

 

No, we don't get a simple point-and-click slugger. We have a dude that, if used correctly (read here with a decent use of tactics), will help you win the game. Crowe is a model that, if you manage to bring him at the right place, will simply negate a key opponent unit.

 

Now, some will tell me "yeah, but you have to bring him to that right place!!!". Sure, but that's the point of playing WH40k, no? If we could just read out our lists aloud and declare a winner because list X has character Z, it would be boring B)

 

I for one, am happy to see a character that has to be used (not abused like Vulcan, that is taken only to unlock Twin-linked stuff).

 

Phil

[Marshal van Trapp]

Just noticed about your list...don't purifiers need to be 10 man for 2 psycannons?

no its 2 per 5 models, 10 would be 4 psycannons

[Eorek]

ooo...you're right... now that is quite awesome

[The Rose Princes]

for 150, run him at the biggest monsterous creature (preferably without Showdow of the Warp) and either kill and/or be killed. the biggest baddest thing is usually more than 150 points anyway, so worth the price of admission.

[HsojVvad]

Wow, I am shocked. Try being a Tyranid player. They dont get so much for so little points. You basically have an "easy button" on him, and people think he is no good? Try playing Tyranids that have no ID protection, you have a 4++ save, you also have a 2+ save and is really really cheap. No Tyranid unit has a 2+ save that is 150 points,

 

Ooo how this would be so nice if Tyranids had something like him. For Tyranids to get something like this, the points cost over 200 points and with True Line of Site, it is even harder to hide, and so much easier to hide Crowe.

[Gentlemanloser]

T4.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Lol, Tyranids get the Tyranid Prime, the most undercosted and broken IC in the game

 

Prime: Oh hai, we're in combat

Enemy monster/hero: Yeah, and I go first

Prime: Nope, my giant tentacles are holding you down in a completely chaste and PG-13 manner

Enemy: Wut

Prime: Now I jam this giant semi-organic stone sword through your heart, and fry your mind

Enemy: Thats k, it's only a Leadership te..(rolls 11/12)

Prime: Problem?

 

With regards to Crowe, I'd do what everyone is suggesting. Kamikaze his useless meatsack at enemy lines, hug your opponent when he dies to a lascannon in the face. If he actually makes combat, laugh as you go defensive stance and tie up his manz forever in a pointless combat. Or one-shot any IC or monster dumb enough to come near him.

[Eorek]

Tyranids is among the weaker of the new codexes I must admit... Though crowes problem isn't melée I'd say it's getting into melée ... at 2 wounds toughness 4 even with a good armour save and a quite decent inv save... He'll die with some s8 hits(preferably ap 2... say a lance weapon(every dark eldar and eldar player has a ton of these)) or a melta weapon (imperial guard drives forth in a chimeria and fires of 4 shots), That is the easy way to kill him

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Just remember to hi-five your opponent when he kills Crowe and say 'it was a team effort'

[boreas]

Tyranids is among the weaker of the new codexes I must admit... Though crowes problem isn't melée I'd say it's getting into melée ... at 2 wounds toughness 4 even with a good armour save and a quite decent inv save... He'll die with some s8 hits(preferably ap 2... say a lance weapon(every dark eldar and eldar player has a ton of these)) or a melta weapon (imperial guard drives forth in a chimeria and fires of 4 shots), That is the easy way to kill him

 

I'd be very happy to have my opponent shoot at Crowe in that manner. Those 4 shots could have killed 2-3 paladins or termies. They could have shot those at my fragile riflemen dreads. Now, this unit is within 12" of my units and very vulnerable. Crowe has to be placed in/behind a friendly unit to be used as a counter-charger. Of course, he's not "in" the unit per-se, he's surrounded by the unit so he can't be easily assaulted.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he's harder to use than most SC (which is a good thing, I'm tired of having to face Vulkan everytime I face a marine. I't like that guy was cloned even more that Jango Fett). But he's also much more polyvalent. Vulkan will do nothing against a horde or a Trygon. The Swarmlord is good, but costs an ungodly amount of points. Mephiston has no ++ save IIRC?, etc, etc. I think the GK community suffers a bit from the "we're the Godly GKs and should always have the best and win" syndrome here ;)

 

Phil

[DV8]

Just remember to hi-five your opponent when he kills Crowe and say 'it was a team effort'

 

Lulz.

 

 

DV8

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'd be very happy to have my opponent shoot at Crowe in that manner. Those 4 shots could have killed 2-3 paladins or termies. They could have shot those at my fragile riflemen dreads. Now, this unit is within 12" of my units and very vulnerable. Crowe has to be placed in/behind a friendly unit to be used as a counter-charger. Of course, he's not "in" the unit per-se, he's surrounded by the unit so he can't be easily assaulted.

 

Sounds a bit fishy bro. I'm pretty sure units need to keep 1" away from eachother. Seeing as he's not an IC, he needs to abide by that.

If you're going to bother pretending he's worth a damn, hide him behind a Rhino.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he's harder to use than most SC (which is a good thing, I'm tired of having to face Vulkan everytime I face a marine. I't like that guy was cloned even more that Jango Fett). But he's also much more polyvalent. Vulkan will do nothing against a horde or a Trygon. The Swarmlord is good, but costs an ungodly amount of points. Mephiston has no ++ save IIRC?, etc, etc. I think the GK community suffers a bit from the "we're the Godly GKs and should always have the best and win" syndrome here

 

Lol, this is the community that put up with a sub-par codex for so many long years. And anyway, I don't think the community has a sense of entitlement. The issue isn't 'I want the Nightbringer but in power armour and attachable to squads', it's 'I want a character thats not unusable'.

 

Crowe is retarded, there is no way of getting around it. If you charge him around on foot in this edition of mechanised melta spam armies, he will get splattered across the dash of a Rhino/Razorback/Chimera/Raider in about two seconds flat. The official reason I got from GW people for his lack of IC was 'nah he wouldn't be able to cast 'Cleansing Flame' in addition to the Purifier's he'd accompany, so thats nerfed'. Lol, but he'd be able to get into a transport without taking up all it's space, and his bonuses (such as they are) would apply to his squad.

 

Every other HQ choice (even Kamikaze Mordrak and his FailKnights) has the option of joining some kind of bodyguard, and utilising a transport (you can put Ghost Knights in vehicles IIRC). It's just dumb what they did to Crowe. One little rule addition, all the complaints of GK players evapourates. It's so easy, I'm tempted to do it in pen and just ask opponent permission.

 

FYI, Vulkan is actually pretty easy to kill (the army, not the character). The dude forces the entire army into short-range, which is both good and bad for Spess Merines. Good due to all the twin-linking, bad because Tactical squads and Attack Bikes suck in close-combat, which is where they end up.

[DV8]

I'd be very happy to have my opponent shoot at Crowe in that manner. Those 4 shots could have killed 2-3 paladins or termies. They could have shot those at my fragile riflemen dreads. Now, this unit is within 12" of my units and very vulnerable. Crowe has to be placed in/behind a friendly unit to be used as a counter-charger. Of course, he's not "in" the unit per-se, he's surrounded by the unit so he can't be easily assaulted.

 

Sounds a bit fishy bro. I'm pretty sure units need to keep 1" away from eachother. Seeing as he's not an IC, he needs to abide by that.

If you're going to bother pretending he's worth a damn, hide him behind a Rhino.

 

Nope, friendly units can get as close and snuggly as they want. The only restrictions are that you must remain 1" away from all enemy models unless you are directly Assaulting them, and that Independent Characters who end the Movement phase within 2" of a unit count as joining them. If they aren't allowed, or cannot, they must remain 2" away.

 

Independent Characters who end their Movement phase within 2" of multiple units must declare which unit they intend to join.

 

 

DV8

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hmm ok then, I might give that a go. Hide him in amongst my Terminators

[the jeske]

Prime: Oh hai, we're in combat

Enemy monster/hero: Yeah, and I go first

Prime: Nope, my giant tentacles are holding you down in a completely chaste and PG-13 manner

Enemy: Wut

Prime: Now I jam this giant semi-organic stone sword through your heart, and fry your mind

Enemy: Thats k, it's only a Leadership te..(rolls 11/12)

Prime: Problem?

 

yeah and then your opponent remembers it is cover and no nid has frags ;/

 

Crow is cheap and makes puris troops . he could cost 50pts more and he still would be viable , because the puri build is solid . sure he cant join units , but since when GK are a hth army . he can stay next to termis or another unit being a counter and an extra target , I bet that against more then a few gamers they will even forget that he is not in the unit .

 

People tend to get over protective about their models and want to win with 0 loses . It is not a good way to win game [nor wage actual war but that is off topic] , it take on avarge 3 lascanons to kill him if he is not going to the ground . at 1500 that is a large part of anti tank for some armies [or a single one for IG , but we that is life] , it means rhinos/razors/dread/NDK get less incoming fire . Wish I had a lord that costs less then 200pts and make chosen/havocks troops.

[boreas]

In fact, the only thing I don't like about Crowe is that Heroic sacrifice can only be used during the assault phase. If only I could sacrifice him to a tank shock :P

 

Phil

[Spacefrisian]

Lol, Tyranids get the Tyranid Prime, the most undercosted and broken IC in the game

 

Prime: Oh hai, we're in combat

Enemy monster/hero: Yeah, and I go first

Prime: Nope, my giant tentacles are holding you down in a completely chaste and PG-13 manner

Enemy: Wut

Prime: Now I jam this giant semi-organic stone sword through your heart, and fry your mind

Enemy: Thats k, it's only a Leadership te..(rolls 11/12)

Prime: Problem?

 

With regards to Crowe, I'd do what everyone is suggesting. Kamikaze his useless meatsack at enemy lines, hug your opponent when he dies to a lascannon in the face. If he actually makes combat, laugh as you go defensive stance and tie up his manz forever in a pointless combat. Or one-shot any IC or monster dumb enough to come near him.

 

 

Prime: Oh hai, we're in combat

Enemy monster/hero: Yeah, and I go first

Prime: Nope, my giant tentacles are holding you down in a completely chaste and PG-13 manner

Enemy: I have item that increases my I to 10 after you done yo dirty work

Prime: Crap

[Eorek]

gonna play my mech purifier, rifleman dread list against orks later today...gonna try hiding crowe among my terminators...wish me and crowe luck!

[The Rose Princes]

Prime: Oh hai, we're in combat

Enemy monster/hero: Yeah, and I go first

Prime: Nope, my giant tentacles are holding you down in a completely chaste and PG-13 manner

Enemy: Wut

Prime: Now I jam this giant semi-organic stone sword through your heart, and fry your mind

Enemy: Thats k, it's only a Leadership te..(rolls 11/12)

Prime: Problem?

 

yeah and then your opponent remembers it is cover and no nid has frags ;/

well, three nids do.

carnifex: oh scary...

harpy: harpy, what that?

Lictor/Deathleaper: this is the only one you should be worried about.... but almost no one fields them.

[Notanoob]

I don't really see the point in using Crowe. His tarpitting abilities are fairly worthless, as if you've got him you've got Purifiers, who will vaporize just about anything, and if you need them to be scoring so desperately you might as well get a Grand Master.

 

Also, when people talk about his tarpitting skills, do they realize that the enemy is also getting rerolls? That helps even things out pretty well, and with only 2 wounds I wouldn't expect him to last long.

 

To me he just looks like an easy KP unless you can hide him effectively, and why make life any harder for myself then I need to? If I wanted to play with a handicap then I'd play my Tyranids.

 

Also, I wouldn't ever run him for fluff purposes, the idea that the blade can survive say, being strapped to a cyclone torpedo or thrown into the sun, or that it could somehow fall into enemy hands if sealed away in the vaults of Titan require the impossible. Taking it into battle, and using it as opposed to your regular NFW just seems stupid to me, and his lack of IC status is just his brother's acknowledgement that he's a little 'special' and thinks he should be actively corrupting the enemy, buffing them are risking the weapon every mission he goes on. Or just the fact that they can't stand having a demon weapon of that power so close by and not trying to destroy it.

[Brother Valerius]

I don't really see the point in using Crowe. His tarpitting abilities are fairly worthless, as if you've got him you've got Purifiers, who will vaporize just about anything, and if you need them to be scoring so desperately you might as well get a Grand Master.

 

The point of Purifiers as troops isn't to make them scoring. It's to take 4-6 squads, and/or to free up Elites slots.

 

Also, when people talk about his tarpitting skills, do they realize that the enemy is also getting rerolls? That helps even things out pretty well, and with only 2 wounds I wouldn't expect him to last long.

 

Only if they charge him, and only on the turn they charge. If he charges, or survives the first round, then you're good.