Brother Valerius Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The question is as simple as the topic says. Since "daemon" isn't a unit type, what constitutes a daemon for things such as a daemon hammer or preferred enemy (daemons)? Units from the Daemons codex? Anything with "daemon" in its name? Anything with the "daemon" special rule? Anything described in the fluff entry to be a daemon? All of the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Everything in the Daemon codex, the Daemons for CSM, and the Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine. That should be all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Everything in the Daemon codex, the Daemons for CSM, and the Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine. That should be all of them. Not disagreeing exactly but what is this based on? Mostly I ask because nothing in the Chaos Space Marine Codex carries the "Daemon" trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The lesser and greater daemons are daemons, are they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The lesser and greater daemons are daemons, are they not? Its right in the name, but some people will try to tell you that a lesser demon of chaos isnt a demon because it doesnt have a rule titled: DAEMON. *shrugs* These people are not being particularly honest, this is one of those 'wich side of the dice do I read' situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Only their names. Nothing in their rules. Their unit types are Monstrous Creature and Infantry. Under special rules they don't have the Daemon or Daemonic trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The lesser and greater daemons are daemons, are they not? Its right in the name, but some people will try to tell you that a lesser demon of chaos isnt a demon because it doesnt have a rule titled: DAEMON. *shrugs* These people are not being particularly honest, this is one of those 'wich side of the dice do I read' situations. I'm not trying to be dishonest here. Heck, I don't even use daemons in my army. What I want to know though is where is the line drawn for determining what a daemon is. Is being called a daemon enough? Does a vehicle with Daemonic Possession count? Does a Daemonhost count? If they create a special warmachine called the Daemon Smiter (for greyknights in apocalype) would it count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Didnt say you were being dishonest, I said some people are trying to pull one over on people- quoting thorpe "there are people who actually think units in the daemon codex arent daemons?". Discuss with your opponent. Im willing to bet most will say that a demonic vehicle wont count, but they might go for it. Thats about the only unclear one out there though. The reason Id say it doesnt count is it isnt the unit thats a demon, but rather an upgrade for the unit.... kind of like chronus is infantry, but if hes still in his tank its a vehicle. *shrugs*. At this point though its only a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTang Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 The old Daemonhunters codex defined Daemons in a pretty specific way. That's gone in the new Grey Knights codex. So at least that argument can be laid to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Oh no this monster has been unleashed once again....... Try search as this was asked before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 One thing I am curious is with the Daemon Prince... Is he in fact labeled as a daemon. He does not have the daemon rule and in the previous codex this was an upgrade to a lord and not an actual daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 One thing I am curious is with the Daemon Prince... Is he in fact labeled as a daemon. He does not have the daemon rule and in the previous codex this was an upgrade to a lord and not an actual daemon. Seriously, you have to ask this? http://static.divbyzero.nl/facepalm/doublefacepalm.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Yes, I would say that Demon Prince is a demon. Demon Princes are in C:Daemons, as daemons. While the specifics of the unit are different, they are supposedly the same thing. Much like if an enemy had preferred enemy: Space Marines that would include SW, BA, C:SM, DA, et al unless it specificly said otherwise- like the old grudge rules for SWs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatball Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The fact that units in C: Daemons have "daemons" rule doesn't mean anything. The daemons rule game-wise just a collections of other rules. Codex Grey knights should, in fact, have a definition for the purpose of determining "what is a daemon?" If such a definition does not exist then we could use fluff and common sense. Best solution is to discuss with your opponent before the battle. You might meet a Grey knights player so puritan that in his eyes everything is a "daemon" and must be exterminated. Even if you play Space Marines one could argue that the mere fact that you are fighting Grey Knights means that your troops are possessed so... best to keep away from such players in these circumstances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 aye, daemon princes and possessed sure should be classed as daemons, but what about oblitorators? or lords with daemon weapons? tanks with daemonic possession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Or Mephiston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Or Mephiston. YES! O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Mwah Mephiston starts crying when he meets the Skulltaker, Mephi can hardly be called Daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Mwah Mephiston starts crying when he meets the Skulltaker, Mephi can hardly be called Daemon. I vote that even emo-daemons are daemons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Black Shadow Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Is it from the warp? If yes, then it is a daemon. The one exception is the CSM Daemon Prince, who is a being from this universe turned into a daemon by the direct intervention of a chaos god. Traitor space marines are not from the warp. Their vehicles are not from the warp. Although these things may be mutated or even possessed by chaos energies/entities, they are still not warp creatures. Yes, I am aware that there are other critters that exist in the warp other than daemons, but those things don't have codices. I would argue that anti-daemon/force/etc weapons and abilities would work on them as well, at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Is it not also true however that benevolent entities exist in the warp? would these also be demons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Yes. 'Daemon' describes anything from the Warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Lets keep the tongue in cheek comments to ourselves as this is a fairly subjective matter. Thank you all for keeping it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I dont think warp based origins can be considered daemon hood. What about Enslavers? What about Dark Eldar? Or even more specifically the decapitator of his lesser bretheren. The easiest answer may be to look at the old book and adapt that as it was pretty clearly the target. "All Daemonhosts, Greater Daemons and Daemon packs, Daemon beasts, Nurglings, Daemonically possessed vehicles (such as defilers) or those with Parasitic possession, living vehicle or mutated hull upgrades. Eldar Avatars, Possessed Chaos Space marines and Chaos lords with the Daemonic Stature gift and/or over 50 points of daemonic gifts." So we get: -Daemonhosts -The Avatar -Lesser Daemons -Greater Daemons -Daemonically Possessed vehicles -Possessed -Daemon Princes -Anything from the Chaos Daemons book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Maybe GW should put out a small faq on this one, cause peeps are bound to ask this "stupid" question again, or try and start a pointless discussion about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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