Black Legion -or- Red Corsairs (do Grey Knights pooch me?)

[Prot]

Hey guys,

Again, bouncing back to chaos.... I've played these guys forever, but as we know the Gav-dex busted me. I don't want to get into -any- anti-gav-dex-discussion though.

What this is about is the hobby side of the game as much as the gaming part of it as well. The deal is I have finally figured out that I don't do well with the hobby or an army in particular if I am not 'into' the army on a purely hobby related manner. That is to say, I have other armies, most recently Blood Pact IG, and I've done -really- decent with them on the table top but I can't force myself to paint these dudes. (I have about 500 points painted, and that's it.)

Now back to chaos. I was telling a good friend how much I not only missed Chaos, but REALLY wanted to use some of the "cool" models that I liked even though they are definitely "B" list choices.

On a whim I made a 1500 point list using these items which kind of looked like this:

Chaos Sorcerer Termie Lord: Lash, combi plasma

3 termies combi plasma

2 squads of 10 marines, champ/fist/dual plasma Rhino

1 squad of 6 Possessed! In a Rhino (horrid unit... horrid but they look cool! Can I 'counts as' Khorne Berzerkers these guys?)

3 oblits

2 oblits

2 oblits

So small army right? Well I figure with the likes of Wolves, BA, and now Grey Knights, I will not make a pure close combat army. This army is meant to shoot... and then get into cc. Mobilty helps.

I had a bizzarre game against a BA friend. He used all the toys, Slap-Chop Dread, Mephiston, Baal Pred, and assault troops with priests, and some other toys. I got very lucky at the right moments and got a very big win. Surprised the heck out of me.

But forget the win, what this brought out in me was my desire to paint up this list (probably swapping out the possessed as mentioned).

Now my question: Do I do this army as Red Corsairs or Black Legion?

It's been a while since I did Black Legion. They do look cool. I just wonder although the Red Corsairs look very cool in their own right, they take a LOT longer to paint. Let me see if I can dig up some examples:

Those Red Corsair pics are taken with a flash so sort of 'washed out' but you get the idea.....

Unfortunately I can't find any of my pics of my old Black Legion....

So what do you guys think?

[Reyner]

Red Corsairs.

[Whitefireinferno]

Yeah go with Huron he has not failed enough to even warrant Khârn to confiscate his arms. Plus the RC have better fluff rather than Hurr Durr I got a legion after my dad started pushing up pansies. Oh and remember he is a Pirate :)

[Yogi]

You are just like me always changing your mind.. Because I remember a thread similar to this by you. And I went back and saw I remembered correctly. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t=0&start=0

 

Back then its says IW or BL or RC, so you've narrowed it down at least. haha.

 

I say with all those oblits stuff it IW, youve tried BL and RC, do IW.. easy to paint..

[Prot]

You are right Yogi. At the time I got caught up in wanting to win more often, and let's face it, Chaos is not tier 1 right now.... BUT can win any given day. I think that's fair to say.

 

I tried going back to IW but as soon as I started painting them.... it felt just like the other 8-10K of Iron Warriors I painted. Ugh. Fatiguing to say the least.

 

That post you dug up was a year ago.... and I don't think I was willing to accept the 'stature' of Chaos in 5th. I still fought it, but I had a friend who really wanted me to go to a tournament. I burned out, but did do some pretty decent figs in the process (looking at them now.)

 

BL doesn't play that different than Red Corsairs, I just don't want to hook my wagon up to a lame horse for the next codex, if you know what I mean.

 

Like I said earlier, in my old post there soon after I was caught up in the 'chaos sucks' stuff. It took me a while to realize that not a lot of armies actually interest me on a hobby level right now, and Chaos is -one- of those that I still have some pleasure in painting.... I just need motivation. ;)

[chillin]

I would say go BL (of course), most interesting fluff of all the legions (IMO). One of the EZ'er paint schemes but looks really good if done well and the little extras added. Also RC's are too close to both WE's and WB's paint schemes.

my two fiddy

[Yogi]

So you have had armies of RC IW BL .. no wonder. You sold them I guess.

 

 

 

Red corsairs have actually succeeded in offending Space Wolf players, having somehow defeated that mighty plot armor and our geneseed is incorruptable nonsense. But I think you are a Space wolf player as well.. Well we can't all be perfect..

 

Black Legion has Abbadabbon and he has no arms. But easier to paint.

 

Flip a coin.

[Shaggaroth]

I had similar doubts, so I'll add a question :

Would it be right fluff-wise to model lots of mutations, etc. on Red Corsairs, them being younger heretics and such?

 

Because I am one of (I guess) rare Chaos player who likes tentacles, extra faces and such :)

[Prot]

So you have had armies of RC IW BL .. no wonder. You sold them I guess.

 

 

 

Red corsairs have actually succeeded in offending Space Wolf players, having somehow defeated that mighty plot armor and our geneseed is incorruptable nonsense. But I think you are a Space wolf player as well.. Well we can't all be perfect..

 

Black Legion has Abbadabbon and he has no arms. But easier to paint.

 

Flip a coin.

 

This made me laugh.... Abbadabbon has no arms? I know he's a little over pointed and under powered, but aren't you being a little hard on the guy?

Yes I have Space Wolves as well. The nice thing about that is with Red Corsairs, I have ample bitz to rock some 'traitor' Wolves.

 

My IW army is still my largest to date. But I guess when you've painted THAT much of one army it does get hard to stay... interested in the scheme. Especially since nothing has happened for them rules wise.

 

I had similar doubts, so I'll add a question :

Would it be right fluff-wise to model lots of mutations, etc. on Red Corsairs, them being younger heretics and such?

 

Because I am one of (I guess) rare Chaos player who likes tentacles, extra faces and such smile.gif

 

It would be just fine. I think Chaos can over take, or mutate, or conversely - not alter a Marine in any time frame. There's a fantastic story about a band of Black Legion that were VERY old.... they steel a Landraider, and it's a great little read. Anyway in the end one of them finally succumbs to some nasty possession. This Black Legion guy made Santa Claus look like a prepubescent teen, so I'd say it could happen at any time.

 

On point: I think Red Corsairs are far more time consuming to paint, but the Black Legion colours, done with care, can look really sharp.

 

 

++edit++

On the Wolves thing.... oddly enough I think I have far more trouble against Blood Angels with my Wolves than I did my Chaos. I think with Chaos I _accept_ that I will not be the greatest of threats in hand to hand, whereas with Wolves I like to delude myself into believing I can still go toe to toe with them.

 

I have to admit though, I look at the incredible stack (and money invested) of Wolves in my Hobby Room and 'Closet of Shame' and it is incredible. I may have to put Chaos aside for fiscal reasons... and shame. :D

[Abyssel]

Fluff wise, I hate the BL

 

They're a bunch of idiots running around trying to hump failbaddons leg.

 

If I had it my way, I would run RC..I wanted to for the longest time, and I love huron's model but by god it just doesn't work for me on a tabletop view... competitive it makes no sense, fluff wise he's awesome.

[Prot]

Fluff wise, I hate the BL

 

They're a bunch of idiots running around trying to hump failbaddons leg.

 

If I had it my way, I would run RC..I wanted to for the longest time, and I love huron's model but by god it just doesn't work for me on a tabletop view... competitive it makes no sense, fluff wise he's awesome.

 

 

I partially agree with you. Abaddon is a failure in my eyes as well. (opinions vary, fair enough) BUT there's a big BUT here.... GW/Black Library have not given us an updated image of the guy in a looong time. I expect that when GW next hopes to sell us some Chaos figs, Abe is going to outright rock. I expect a novel will be in the works too, and he will have all the bad assery we always thought he should have. Guaranteed.

 

Your thoughts on Huron I am 100% in agreement with. I love the model. Had a blast painting it. It was a real challenge. His fluff and background is fantastic. He is a real... different sort of threat to the imperium. He is tactful, and charismatic. Capable of turning chapters against their masters... or 'freeing' them of the shackles of the Imperium if you will. He's a bonafide threat on a few different levels.

 

But again, on the table top. Phhhhhhffffffft. :D

 

Will GW still take care of Red Corsairs in the next edition? Will they relegate them to had been status when/if a Legions codex comes out?

[Brother Nihm]

Why ponder so long and hard? :(

 

I propose a simple test for you Prot.

Sit down and build two near-identical CSM, basic troopers with bolters, bp's, chainswords, whatever. Nothing special.

 

Paint one of them in the BL scheme and one in the RC scheme. Once you're done, which one did you enjoy painting the most, which one do you see yourself painting 40 more of (+vehicles).

Whether you like the fluff of any given Legion/warband or not, it is the painting which you'll be doing the most of at first.

 

Then, find 2-3 short-stories from each group, read them, or read their IA articles and then consider which ones appealed to you the most, and why.

 

a few hours worth of painting and relaxed reading could save you many months of pondering.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Prot]

Thanks again Nihm...

 

I had pretty much settled on Red Corsairs until I read your post because when I think of it in those terms, I am betting Black Legion comes out the winner. Red Corsairs can look pretty good but after my massive Black Templar army I feel very confident in blacks now.... and metals with IW are something I've farted around with a lot.

 

That's it... tonight after work I'm going to pain maybe 2 BL marines and compare them to the level of quality, and 'fun' in painting the Red Corsairs.

 

I'll be sure to post my results.

 

Thanks guys.

[Hellios]

Yeah go with Huron he has not failed enough to even warrant Khârn to confiscate his arms. Plus the RC have better fluff rather than Hurr Durr I got a legion after my dad started pushing up pansies. Oh and remember he is a Pirate :)

 

 

So you have had armies of RC IW BL .. no wonder. You sold them I guess.

 

 

 

Red corsairs have actually succeeded in offending Space Wolf players, having somehow defeated that mighty plot armor and our geneseed is incorruptable nonsense. But I think you are a Space wolf player as well.. Well we can't all be perfect..

 

Black Legion has Abbadabbon and he has no arms. But easier to paint.

 

Flip a coin.

 

This made me laugh.... Abbadabbon has no arms? I know he's a little over pointed and under powered, but aren't you being a little hard on the guy?

Yes I have Space Wolves as well. The nice thing about that is with Red Corsairs, I have ample bitz to rock some 'traitor' Wolves.

 

 

 

For people who do not understand the mad rantings of the internet...

 

http://1d4chan.org/images/b/be/SkullCrusher.jpg

[Prot]

Hehe, thanks for that.

 

I was just looking at Matt's Red Corsairs and they look great. I think I need to get 'better' photos of my Red Corsairs up too.

[subtlebrush]

I had similar doubts, so I'll add a question :

Would it be right fluff-wise to model lots of mutations, etc. on Red Corsairs, them being younger heretics and such?

 

Because I am one of (I guess) rare Chaos player who likes tentacles, extra faces and such :)

 

Nope you are not alone brother. The more mutated the better for me. I'm currently pursuing some Possessed sprues to make me some nasty mutated Chaos Marines (Legion to be determined later).

 

Mr.Malevolent