GK Troops

[Gentlemanloser]

The second major bugbear I'm facing with list building at the moment is our Troop choices. They are both amazingly good and totally redundant at the same time!

 

As oft mentioned, due to The Grand Strategy, our actual Troops choices don't matter to us as much as they do to other armies. Especially when we have the flexibility to create additional 'troops' with TGS when needed, and not worry aobut a lack of Troops when you face a non objective game.

 

We have two basic types;

 

1) Strike Squad. These guys are awesome. a Marine with a Storm Bolter, Force Weapon and a couple of funky powers. What's not to love?

 

2) Terminators. TDA units as troops without the necessity to take a SC! On top of that, they have grenades! That's a massive boon to our Terminators. They cost exactly doube the amount our PA troop squad does, and have double the CC attacks as well.

 

The thing is, it's possible to repplace these two units with their resecitve 'upgraded' versions by taking a specific SC.

 

3) Purifiers. By paying the 'Crowe Tax' (and the guys at my group are intiially thinking he's not that bad... I disagree, but that's for another topic!) you can take a slightly more expensive PA unit as Troops. These are better than the Strike Squad in every fasion. Fearless, double the CC attacks, more special ranged wepaons and cheaper weapon upgrade options. If it wasn't for the Crowe Tax, why wouldn't you use Purfiers over Striks Sqauds all the time? The only thing they lose is Warp Quake (which you cn get on Interceptors) and the ability to DS. Which, if you're usingtransports isn't really an issue.

 

4) Paladin. These guys get more Ranged special weapons and cheape upgrades over thier Terminaors brothers. More expensive, but at a cost of 15 points for a wound (and 1 extra WS) they are the cheapest Grey Knight option for squeezing an extra wound in out of any unit choice. If you can afford them, why not use these guys over normal Terminators all the time?

 

So, given that, really, unless we're looking to just field the cheapest possible options in the codex, and given that we're not really too worried about our scoring units, why ever use the 'basic' versions of our Troops? We're just filling them out to satisfy the minimum require of the FOC chart, aren't we?

 

Why would you ever use a Strike Squad or Terminator Squad over thier better and more cost effective cousins?

[HERO]

If I'm taking Draigo, Paladins are the better choice over GKT or PAGK.

 

Without Draigo, I would say GKSS are better than Terminators because of their flexibility with Rhinos and their cost.

 

Terminators are the weakest of the bunch, unfortunately.

1. Small body count, 5 dudes

2. 1 Psycannon with 24" range

3. Larger squads is significantly more expensive.

[Leonaides]

Because they cost less so you can get more of them? A GK army is going to be small, but if you buy all the shiney bits, your army will be too small. Same thing with BA's when they came out, everyone was saying take the pretty shiney options - and now? Most of them have realised thats a really good way to blow your points on unneccessary upgrades and then not have enough bodies on the board.

[Justcar]

My question exactly.

 

Every option is quite good. However, I dislike the SSGKs. This is because I feel that they are simply useless! Every other unit in the codex does something better! Intercepters are more mobile. Purifiers are better at combat (and practically cost the same). Terminators have better armor and firepower on the move (due to relentless), and don't even talk about Paladins!

 

If someone could convince me to like SSGKs, I would appreciate it (I know they are probably better for competitive play)

 

Also, we can make these better units troops (after a fashion). We really need very little troops choices. However, GS is random. So I would have enough room for three, but plan on only buffing one squad. This is a better principle when list building.

 

My thoughts are that two 5 man termie squads aren't going to cut it. I would have at least 15 total.

 

Unfortunately, Draigo is probably not the best for competitive play. On the other hand, If you take 10 paladins, you don't have to take any troops! You can spend the rest on intercepters, Storm ravens, Purifiers!

 

The only reason I wouldn't take crowe is that he takes up an HQ slot. We need our HQs to actually be competent!

[Gentlemanloser]

Because they cost less so you can get more of them? A GK army is going to be small, but if you buy all the shiney bits, your army will be too small. Same thing with BA's when they came out, everyone was saying take the pretty shiney options - and now? Most of them have realised thats a really good way to blow your points on unneccessary upgrades and then not have enough bodies on the board.

 

You pay 4 points for Fearless, an awesome Psychic Power, more ranged special Weapons, cheaper weapon upgrades and double the attacks in CC.

 

Is that 40 points for a full Squad *really* not worth it?

[TheReclusiarch]

I think I'll be going with a mix of Strike Squads and Terminator squads. My current list have 10 Terminators that will combat squad, as well as a ten man strong Grey Knight Strike Squad that can, if I'm in a really objectives heavy game, combat squad. I'm not really playing with a Grand Master, so I don't have the option to give out free "I can take objectives" cards. :/

[Brother Valerius]

Because they cost less so you can get more of them? A GK army is going to be small, but if you buy all the shiney bits, your army will be too small. Same thing with BA's when they came out, everyone was saying take the pretty shiney options - and now? Most of them have realised thats a really good way to blow your points on unneccessary upgrades and then not have enough bodies on the board.

 

You pay 4 points for Fearless, an awesome Psychic Power, more ranged special Weapons, cheaper weapon upgrades and double the attacks in CC.

 

Is that 40 points for a full Squad *really* not worth it?

 

I don't consider Fearless to be a benefit, tbh. The other tools are nice (and I myself think I'm going to run a lot of purifiers due to that awesome psychic power), but I don't think that diminishes Leonaides' point. Sometimes you need more boots on the ground, not just better boots. In cases like that, cheap is good.

[HERO]

If someone could convince me to like SSGKs, I would appreciate it (I know they are probably better for competitive play)

 

For their price, no one in the army shoots out 16 S5 shots and 2x Psycannon shots out of a Rhino better at 24" better than they do.

 

Move 12", get out and unload the above and you have 36" threat. No one has that mobility except for Interceptors, but they do so without the AV11 protection.

 

This is why GKSS have their place in every single one of my lists.

[Darkchild130]

I'm going to use 4 strike squads in Asscannon razorbacks as my troop choices mit psycannon unt psybolts for flavour.

 

Though I am creating a counts as Deathwatch Strike force,so it makes sense I dont have loads of terminators running about.

 

Darkchild

[Marshal van Trapp]

If someone could convince me to like SSGKs, I would appreciate it (I know they are probably better for competitive play)

 

For their price, no one in the army shoots out 16 S5 shots and 2x Psycannon shots out of a Rhino better at 24" better than they do.

 

Move 12", get out and unload the above and you have 36" threat. No one has that mobility except for Interceptors, but they do so without the AV11 protection.

 

This is why GKSS have their place in every single one of my lists.

although with that logic :ahem:

 

[Math] skip to the end if you just want the raw results not all the statistical gobbledygook

 

from a cost standpoint:

10man purifier squad, in a rhino, with psybolt ammo and 4 pyscannons = 12 S5 shots and 8 S7 shots for 310pts (min)

VS

10man strike squad, in a rhino, with psybolt ammo and 2 pyscannons = 16 S5 shots and 4 S7 shots for 280 pts (min)

 

so starting with hit saturation:

both squads have 20 shots, 2/3 of which will hit (with bs 4) so: 20 X 2/3 = approx 13 shots will hit (statistically)

 

now you get into wounding (will use standard 15pt MEQ as the targets):

here is where you have to break the hits up, the first squad is only firing 12 at S5, so only about 8 will hit (statistically) which means of the 8 that hit only 2/3 again will hit which is approx 5 wounds, and then the 8 S7 shots of which about 5 will hit however they only fail to wound on a 1 which means 5/6 will hit or approx 4

thats a total of 9 wounds on a marine squad from the purifiers

 

the GKSS has 16 S5 shots which boils down to 10 hits and then 6 wounds but of their 4 psycannon shots only about 2 will hit and if you are lucky both wound, statistically at least 1 will

thats a total of 7 (to 8) wounds from the GKSS

 

now with the marines saving 2 out of every 3 hits taken you get a kill ration of 1:3 so:

Purifiers will kill 3 where as the GKSS will kill about 2

 

so basically are the 2 squads different kill ability wise? absolutely not (at least not at range) but when you factor in the points the purifiers will kill 45pts a turn and the GKSS kills 30pts a turn

 

if say the game lasted 5 turns that come out to be 225 pts for the purifiers and 150pts for the GKSS

 

so if you were to do a kill vs cost for both squads:

the purifiers would be approx 225/310 coming out to be .725pts earned back per point spent or about 72.5% efficient

whereas the GKSS ends up being 150/280 coming out to .535pts earned back per point spent or about 53.5% efficient

[/end Math]

 

so in conclusion:

from a killing ability vs cost perspective the purifiers are 72.5% efficient at earning back their points (against 15pt MEQs) a whole 19% more efficient than the GKSS at 53,5%

 

also i would like to point out that crowe is only 150 points, the emperor's champion of the black templars can be anywhere from 100-140 and you need him to field any BT force over 500 point, he doesn't give you any FOC choices (although the vows are nice i suppose >.>) point being, there are worse SC than crowe

 

also i appoligize for the little rant at the end, i am a reformed BT player

[HERO]

72.5% efficient with or without the Crowe tax?

[Marshal van Trapp]

72.5% efficient with or without the Crowe tax?

without, but then the crowe tax is distributed between how many squads you have so it really does depend, at only one squad it adds 150 points to them but if you have a full 6 then its only 25 more a squad

 

so at 6 purifiers it ends up being 225/335 or about 67.2% still greater than the GKSS

 

if you only take one (emperor knows why you would) then it would be 225/460 or 48.9%, but at just 2 its 225/385 or 58%, still greater than GKSS, just make sure you take more than one and they're better (statically)

[HERO]

I think for anyone not playing Crowe or Purifiers as troops, then GKSS will be better for the points.

[Brother Valerius]

The "Crowe tax" (which is kind of a silly term) is 125 points at most, because you need an HQ no matter what and the cheapest HQ you can get is 25 points.

[Marshal van Trapp]

I think for anyone not playing Crowe or Purifiers as troops, then GKSS will be better for the points.

yes because then they wouldn't be troops :rolleyes: so the only other option is GKSS or GKT (which have already been covered)

 

i'd also like to point out that my statistics are considering a zero loss on the GK end, losing models equals losing shots, so a more resistant squad would be more efficient, so if i ran the statistics that way i'd have to do it again haha

[Zagman]

If someone could convince me to like SSGKs, I would appreciate it (I know they are probably better for competitive play)

 

For their price, no one in the army shoots out 16 S5 shots and 2x Psycannon shots out of a Rhino better at 24" better than they do.

 

Move 12", get out and unload the above and you have 36" threat. No one has that mobility except for Interceptors, but they do so without the AV11 protection.

 

This is why GKSS have their place in every single one of my lists.

although with that logic :ahem:

 

[Math] skip to the end if you just want the raw results not all the statistical gobbledygook

 

from a cost standpoint:

10man purifier squad, in a rhino, with psybolt ammo and 4 pyscannons = 12 S5 shots and 8 S7 shots for 310pts (min)

VS

10man strike squad, in a rhino, with psybolt ammo and 2 pyscannons = 16 S5 shots and 4 S7 shots for 280 pts (min)

 

so starting with hit saturation:

both squads have 20 shots, 2/3 of which will hit (with bs 4) so: 20 X 2/3 = approx 13 shots will hit (statistically)

 

now you get into wounding (will use standard 15pt MEQ as the targets):

here is where you have to break the hits up, the first squad is only firing 12 at S5, so only about 8 will hit (statistically) which means of the 8 that hit only 2/3 again will hit which is approx 5 wounds, and then the 8 S7 shots of which about 5 will hit however they only fail to wound on a 1 which means 5/6 will hit or approx 4

thats a total of 9 wounds on a marine squad from the purifiers

 

the GKSS has 16 S5 shots which boils down to 10 hits and then 6 wounds but of their 4 psycannon shots only about 2 will hit and if you are lucky both wound, statistically at least 1 will

thats a total of 7 (to 8) wounds from the GKSS

 

now with the marines saving 2 out of every 3 hits taken you get a kill ration of 1:3 so:

Purifiers will kill 3 where as the GKSS will kill about 2

 

so basically are the 2 squads different kill ability wise? absolutely not (at least not at range) but when you factor in the points the purifiers will kill 45pts a turn and the GKSS kills 30pts a turn

 

if say the game lasted 5 turns that come out to be 225 pts for the purifiers and 150pts for the GKSS

 

so if you were to do a kill vs cost for both squads:

the purifiers would be approx 225/310 coming out to be .725pts earned back per point spent or about 72.5% efficient

whereas the GKSS ends up being 150/280 coming out to .535pts earned back per point spent or about 53.5% efficient

[/end Math]

 

so in conclusion:

from a killing ability vs cost perspective the purifiers are 72.5% efficient at earning back their points (against 15pt MEQs) a whole 19% more efficient than the GKSS at 53,5%

 

also i would like to point out that crowe is only 150 points, the emperor's champion of the black templars can be anywhere from 100-140 and you need him to field any BT force over 500 point, he doesn't give you any FOC choices (although the vows are nice i suppose >.>) point being, there are worse SC than crowe

 

also i appoligize for the little rant at the end, i am a reformed BT player

 

I don't know where to begin, your Math hammering is really poor. You have rounded and propagated error all throughout this. Then used that faulty data to make further projections. You also assume that the units are on the move. You also failed to include rending from the psycannons into your calculations. The killing power of a Purifier squad is drastically increased when it stands still thanks to the Psycannons. Don't forget about the assault phase.

 

For instance, I'll use those two squad setups against MEQ.

 

Moving GKPS = 3.9 dead MEQ

Stationary GKPS = 6 dead MEQ

Assaulting GKPS(Hammerhand) = 7

Assaulting GKPS(Cleansing Flame Assumes 10man MEQ) = 7.2

Assaulted GKPS(Hammerhand) = 4.7

Assaulted GKPS(Cleansing Flame Assumes 10man MEQ)= 5.3

 

Moving GKSS = 3.4

Stationary GKSS = 4.7

Assaulting Purifiers(Hammerhand) = 6

Assaulted Purifiers(Hammerhand) = 2.2

 

Also, I don't view Crowe as a tax. He unlocks Purifiers as troops and is an ok CC unit in his own rigth. He is capable of handling hoards thanks to his ability to use cleansing flame and his stances. With the abilities of a brother champion you can write quite a large amount of his "tax" off.

[Marmande]

For fun I put together a Crowe and Purifier list (because I like the models and rules - sans the, well, sans-Independent Character rule on Crowe):

 

HQ - 150pts

Crowe - 150pts

 

Elites - 145pts

Vindicare - 145pts

 

Troops - 810pts

Purifier Squad - 270pts

-8 Knights

-2 Psycannons

-2 Daemonhammers (on anything but to the KotF so you won't lose one to your first Perils)

-4 Halberds

-Rhino

 

Purifier Squad - 270pts

-As above

 

Purifier Squad - 270pts

 

Heavy Support - 405pts

Dreadnought - 135pts

-TLAC

-TLAC

-Psybolt Ammunition

 

Dreadnought

-As above

 

Dreadnought

-As above

 

1510/2000pts

 

490pts left to spend.

 

...which actually didn't seem that bad, especially for what could potentially be a 1500pt list by removing a Daemonhammer here or there. The Vindicare is a personal choice, but removing him leaves 135pts in a 1500 list or 635pts in a 2000 list. Assuming the assassin was left in, here is what I saw as potential options for the remaining points:

 

1) Run a fourth squad of Purifiers and use the remaining points to max out the rest of the squads to 10 men each, perhaps even upgrading all the squads to Psybolt Ammunition

 

2) Run a kitted-out squad of Interceptors (315pts) and use the leftover points to maximize squad numbers as per suggestion #1

 

3) (Personal favorite) Buy a Librarian and attach him to Crowe and put them in a Stormraven. 'Raven moves up with Rhinos on turn one as everything pops smoke, leaving the Libby to cast Shrouding in the following Shooting phase and give 4-7 vehicles a 3+ cover save. From there, the 'Raven acts as a dedicated gunship, psychic defense placement, and overall distraction.

 

Dropping the Vindicare opens up even more options, such as:

 

1) 4th Purifier squad AND kitted-out Interceptor squad

 

2) Librarian and 5-6 man Paladin squad, fully-kitted and geared for wound-allocation shenanigans. Their mission is to Deep Strike in and keep the opponent honest while the rest of the army moves forward. Alternatively, take a 10-man squad of regular Terminators for a 5th scoring unit. :P

 

3) Even larger squad of Terminators, but without access to Servo Skulls (this can be alleviated by taking a OXI and throwing him in with one of the Purifier units)

 

4) Three Venerable Psyflemen Dreads, just to add gas to the fire. :o

 

I'm sure there are more ideas, but that's what came to me while typing this. Crowe is a small price to pay (except for maybe those games where the objective is to kill the enemy's most expensive HQ :woot:) but Purifiers are awesome enough (and relatively cheap, too, I might add) and supremely points-efficient - can you imagine a list with Crowe, 4 units of Purifiers, and five Psyflemen Dreads?

[Inquisitor Fox]

There are two features that haven't been brought up or discussed yet. First, a Strike Squad may deep strike and is not dependent upon a transport to reach optimum position. With the ability to take mystics, servo skulls, and put teleport homers on say, a Storm Raven or Justicars, this helps significantly. The other good use of this, is to deep strike behind enemy lines, then utilize warp quake to mess with enemy deep striking reinforcements. Additionally, they are well suited to garrisoning your own objectives and using warp quake to protect your own back lines from enemy deep strikers. This also allows the Strike Squad to remain even cheaper because it is not obligated to buy a transport unlike some of your other choices (say, Purifiers).

 

Second, a Strike Squad is scoring before the use of a GK GM. This means that the GK GM can either make things such as Dreadnoughts or Dreadknights scoring, or his abilities can be used to get scouting or outflanking units without sacrificing the ability to have scoring units in the first place. Personally I love being able to essentially have an entire army list that can score, don't you?

 

While it is true that other squad choices have abilities that the Strike Squad does not, these basic things have to be considered into your overall battle plan. It isn't a case of which unit is best, as much as which unit will best do the job that you want to have done. Your army has to work together as an organic whole, not a bunch of cookie cutter "1 HQ, 2 Troops, then some Elites and Heavies and I'm done" pieces. Our units will need to gestalt together similar to an Eldar or Tau army, as opposed to some of our other Imperial brethren.

[Joasht]

The concept of the Deepstriking GKSS is one that I've been giving a lot of thought to lately. With proper use of things to increase the accuracy of the Deep Strike, it isn't at all a bad thing to drop them within 24" with all guns blazing. It is utterly devastating to armies with poorer armor as those S5 stormbolters would rip them a new one, but against MEQs you practically have to make sure their transports are popped, unless you are happy with throwing all your stormbolter rounds onto their Rhinos/Razorbacks. Not entirely a loss, but rather inefficient. And even if you get to shoot at the marines, S5 shots are still not *that* great at downing MEQs (decent-ish but not great, as any Tau player would tell you) and rending on the Psycannons is not dependable.

[Gentlemanloser]

There are two features that haven't been brought up or discussed yet. First, a Strike Squad may deep strike and is not dependent upon a transport to reach optimum position. With the ability to take mystics, servo skulls, and put teleport homers on say, a Storm Raven or Justicars, this helps significantly. The other good use of this, is to deep strike behind enemy lines, then utilize warp quake to mess with enemy deep striking reinforcements. Additionally, they are well suited to garrisoning your own objectives and using warp quake to protect your own back lines from enemy deep strikers. This also allows the Strike Squad to remain even cheaper because it is not obligated to buy a transport unlike some of your other choices (say, Purifiers).

 

If you're Dsing into your opponents DZ, you won't have Servo Skulls there. You can only take TH on Purgation Squads, so realistically you're only looking at Dsing with any sort of reliabilty if you have a SR or Libby (possibly attached to Mordrak).

 

Anything else is just asking for a DS mishap.

 

As for having them in your on DZ, the DS isn't needed, and with at most a 24" range they will do nothing other than sit on your home objective casting Warp Quake.

 

I'd view that as a waste of 100 points. ^_^

 

Second, a Strike Squad is scoring before the use of a GK GM. This means that the GK GM can either make things such as Dreadnoughts or Dreadknights scoring, or his abilities can be used to get scouting or outflanking units without sacrificing the ability to have scoring units in the first place. Personally I love being able to essentially have an entire army list that can score, don't you?

 

Exactly the point of this topic. With the GMs ability, our Troop slots don't *really* have the impact other armies do, as we don't need them to claim objectives. We can have a Dread or NDK do that instead.

 

While it is true that other squad choices have abilities that the Strike Squad does not, these basic things have to be considered into your overall battle plan. It isn't a case of which unit is best, as much as which unit will best do the job that you want to have done. Your army has to work together as an organic whole, not a bunch of cookie cutter "1 HQ, 2 Troops, then some Elites and Heavies and I'm done" pieces. Our units will need to gestalt together similar to an Eldar or Tau army, as opposed to some of our other Imperial brethren.

 

What job can the Strike Squad do, that Purifiers/Interceptors can't do better?

 

I don't consider Fearless to be a benefit, tbh.

 

Nor do I. I hate it for CC orientated units, specialyl those that can function with small Squad sizes. But some like it. :)

[Marshal van Trapp]

I don't know where to begin, your Math hammering is really poor. You have rounded and propagated error all throughout this. Then used that faulty data to make further projections. You also assume that the units are on the move. You also failed to include rending from the psycannons into your calculations. The killing power of a Purifier squad is drastically increased when it stands still thanks to the Psycannons. Don't forget about the assault phase.

i thought the psycannons are only rending when stationary, it seems to support that in the books, assault 2 or heavy 4 rending, i assumed that meant only the heavy 4 were rending, which is why i did not add that to my calculations, then it is a fact that GW has very poorly written books so i guess anything is possible

 

also i am assuming worst case scenario and thus rounding all numbers down and counting them as moving all the time, if you'd like i can write out every single possible scenario, but that would be several pages long as over 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or (until you fail the end of game roll) lets say n turns they can not move all game, move every turn, move just once, or move on any combination of turns up to n, this would take WAY too many pages to write out properly

 

i'm a math major, don't impune my honor, i was writing it more simplistically so people could understand, also i use the word APPROXIMATELY several times informing that i was rounding some answers for simplicity's sake, i also based this wholly upon shooting, not including assault at all, as that adds yet another level to the already somewhat complicated list of statical analysis

[Abaddonshand]

i thought the psycannons are only rending when stationary, it seems to support that in the books, assault 2 or heavy 4 rending, i assumed that meant only the heavy 4 were rending, which is why i did not add that to my calculations, then it is a fact that GW has very poorly written books so i guess anything is possible

 

Codex is perfectly clearly written in this regard; psycannon stats are "assault 2 or heavy 4 , rending". The presence of the comma indicates that the rending applies regardless of the firing mode. If it read "assault 2 or heavy 4 rending" instead then the rending would only apply to the heavy 4 firing mode.

[bearden441]

If calculating CC ability, how are you equiping your Purifiers? Are you going straight swords or are you using halberds or a mix of the two with a sprinke of daemonhammer?

 

I think both shooting and CC should be calculated because of the fact that due to our lack of mobility once our transports are down, we will post likely be facing combat.

 

I am still on the fence about what to use with what loadout, there are just so many options.

[Marshal van Trapp]

i thought the psycannons are only rending when stationary, it seems to support that in the books, assault 2 or heavy 4 rending, i assumed that meant only the heavy 4 were rending, which is why i did not add that to my calculations, then it is a fact that GW has very poorly written books so i guess anything is possible

 

Codex is perfectly clearly written in this regard; psycannon stats are "assault 2 or heavy 4 , rending". The presence of the comma indicates that the rending applies regardless of the firing mode. If it read "assault 2 or heavy 4 rending" instead then the rending would only apply to the heavy 4 firing mode.

 

ah thanks for that, didn't notice the comma heh :( but then the 8 psycannon shots have a 1/6 chance of killing outright, versus the 4 its a better chance and thus adds another level to the calculations which i don't feel like doing this early in the morning heh

[Marshall666]

I don't know where to begin, your Math hammering is really poor. You have rounded and propagated error all throughout this. Then used that faulty data to make further projections. You also assume that the units are on the move. You also failed to include rending from the psycannons into your calculations. The killing power of a Purifier squad is drastically increased when it stands still thanks to the Psycannons. Don't forget about the assault phase.

i thought the psycannons are only rending when stationary, it seems to support that in the books, assault 2 or heavy 4 rending, i assumed that meant only the heavy 4 were rending, which is why i did not add that to my calculations, then it is a fact that GW has very poorly written books so i guess anything is possible

 

also i am assuming worst case scenario and thus rounding all numbers down and counting them as moving all the time, if you'd like i can write out every single possible scenario, but that would be several pages long as over 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or (until you fail the end of game roll) lets say n turns they can not move all game, move every turn, move just once, or move on any combination of turns up to n, this would take WAY too many pages to write out properly

 

i'm a math major, don't impune my honor, i was writing it more simplistically so people could understand, also i use the word APPROXIMATELY several times informing that i was rounding some answers for simplicity's sake, i also based this wholly upon shooting, not including assault at all, as that adds yet another level to the already somewhat complicated list of statical analysis

 

P58 of new codex,

 

"Assault 2 or Heavy 4* , Rending." (The comma seperating the number of shots from rending tells me its rending in both modes of fire)

 

- Regards

 

Marshall

 

Serves me right for not refreshing the page from earlier >.<

 

Ignore my repeat answer

 

Apologies

 

- Marshall