GK Troops

[Something Wycked]

So, given that, really, unless we're looking to just field the cheapest possible options in the codex, and given that we're not really too worried about our scoring units, why ever use the 'basic' versions of our Troops? We're just filling them out to satisfy the minimum require of the FOC chart, aren't we?

 

Why would you ever use a Strike Squad or Terminator Squad over thier better and more cost effective cousins?

 

The original question in the original post is the heart of the issue. Many people in here are assuming straight off the bat that Strike Squads and Terminator squads are inferior in every situation, across the board- tactically, survivability, killy-ness, and cost. This is not the case.

 

As was mentioned earlier by someone (I apologize for forgetting your name) GK units are specialized in a similar fashion to Eldar, even with all of the similarity in stat lines, wargear and special rules to each other. They each have their place and purpose and uses, and come with associated point costs and drawbacks.

 

What it really comes down to is what works for you. What suits your playstyle, what tactical advantages you are most skilled at exploiting, which enemies you face on a regular basis. It seems that what works for the OP (and many others here) is to ignore GKSS and GKT for their "better and more cost effective cousins".

 

I'm in the same boat. I'm a heavy weapons guy at heart, so if I can take the Grey Knight version of a Devastator Squad (referring to Purifiers having as many Psycannons as Purgations) as my Troops choices, its going to happen, and I'm going to run them full strength with all four "heavy" weapons.

 

But that won't stop me from exploring all of the other options too, because they are just so juicy! :drool:

[skarn]

I cannot adequately describe how limited this thinking is. Morticon, a B&C BA forum mod, has been staying with me at my house since Adepticon and we have gone absolutely ape :lol: with GK army builds. Only a few have featured a GM. So far, none have featured Draigo and Crowe. There's a lot more to the codex than many of the posters in the OI have yet to realize. ;) I consider this to be A Good Thing. It's the sign of a quality codex. What we've all desperately wanted for so long. Time to celebrate!

6, any chance you can let us know what you've come up with so far? I'm having trouble myself and would appreciate your advice here;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=226691

[iamnothere]

So far my strongest HQ has to be the Libby - then again though I am building for an escalation tourny and he rocks out straight away.

 

5 Pts for each game changeing power? Yes Please. A Basic Strike Squad in a Storm Raven as bodyguard works wonders.

 

At 750pts this is how I roll:

 

Storm raven moves flat out, onboard strike squad casts warp quake. Libby casts shrouding in enemy shooting phase, sanctuary in assault phase. Turn 2 - Second squad could arrive by deep strike. I put a lot of pressure where I want it.

 

Only thing I really want to know is do teleport homers work with the summoning? I think they should otherwise why have the option for the Libby?

[Gentlemanloser]

Currently, they don't work.

 

As The summoning doesn't state it 'teleport', and the Wargear entry for the homer doesn't state it works with The Summoning. :D

 

Hopefully it will be FAQed.

[Astrator]

I've been running the numbers for Paladins versus regular GKT's, and I'm thinking we might be better off using Termies in most cases.

 

Survivability-wise, sure, the Pally's with Apothecary are twice as durable versus S7 or weaker weaponry. However, they are even more vulnerable to Melta, Lascannon, Powerfists, and other such High-S, low-AP weaponry, due to instant death.

 

In the shooting phase, even with the ability to take twice as many Special Weapons, Pally's are likely to be at a disadvantage versus a points-similar number of GKT's. Compare a five-man Paladin unit with Apothecary and two MC Psycannon (400 points) to a nine-man GKT unit with a Psycannon and Psybolts (405 points).

 

In combat, Paladins have an improved WS, but that doesn't overcome the far fewer number of Attacks they'll get.

 

 

I know we've all been super excited about our nigh-invincible supermen, and I can certainly find reason enough to play a unit of them, but I don't think the math supports playing them as Troops over normal GKT's.

[Gentlemanloser]

In combat, Paladins have an improved WS, but that doesn't overcome the far fewer number of Attacks they'll get.

 

2 MC Psycannons though. :)

[Astrator]

In combat, Paladins have an improved WS, but that doesn't overcome the far fewer number of Attacks they'll get.

 

2 MC Psycannons though. ;)

Like I mentioned in my post, though, more bodies plus Psybolt Ammo actually yields better results against MEQ than the two Master Crafted Psycannon.

 

The example I gave was five Paladins with an Apothecary and two MC'ed Psycannon (400 pts) versus nine GKT's with a Psycannon and Psybolts (405 pts). Let's assume we also have The Grand Strategy granting re-rolls to Wound for each unit. The Paladins can expect to cause about 3.89 unsaved Wounds against MEQ, on average, while the GKT's would manage about 4.37 unsaved Wounds. It's not a huge advantage, sure, but it is still significant when considered alongside their othe disadvantages.

[number6]

6, any chance you can let us know what you've come up with so far?

Barring another bout of inspiration, this is the army I intend to build. It suits my personal playstyle almost to a "T", and also contains many of the sexy units I wanted to employ. Although I love the GM and Purifiers -- and even think Crowe can actually be useful in his own right -- none of those elements are to be found in my army. It is built around a core of Strike Squads and basic Terminators. Have a look. It's got mobility, resilience, redundancy, assault, counterassault, and anti-infantry and anti-armour firepower in spades.

I'm having trouble myself and would appreciate your advice here;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=226691

I'll have a look. ^_^

[Inquisitor Fox]

My own ideas are here which is a slightly different spin on things than number6 but are likewise without any of the GM / Crowe / Purifier / Paladin units.

[Zagman]

In combat, Paladins have an improved WS, but that doesn't overcome the far fewer number of Attacks they'll get.

 

2 MC Psycannons though. :)

Like I mentioned in my post, though, more bodies plus Psybolt Ammo actually yields better results against MEQ than the two Master Crafted Psycannon.

 

The example I gave was five Paladins with an Apothecary and two MC'ed Psycannon (400 pts) versus nine GKT's with a Psycannon and Psybolts (405 pts). Let's assume we also have The Grand Strategy granting re-rolls to Wound for each unit. The Paladins can expect to cause about 3.89 unsaved Wounds against MEQ, on average, while the GKT's would manage about 4.37 unsaved Wounds. It's not a huge advantage, sure, but it is still significant when considered alongside their othe disadvantages.

 

The Apothecary and psybolt upgrades are terrible upgrades for 5 man paladin units. Lets run a 5 man paladin squad with psycannons and various wargear, 315s versus and equal point cost in Terminators, say 7 terminators with psycannon and psybolt ammunition, 325pts. In truth, I could have MCed the Psycannon for an equal point cost further increasing the killing power of the Paladins but that made the math much more tedious, so I am giving the Terminators a break in my Mathhammering.

 

Paladins Versus MEQ = 2.7 unsaved wounds

Paladins Versus GEQ = 7.1 unsaved wounds (Assuming no armor save)

Paladins Versus Terminators = 1.66 unsaved wounds

Paladins Versus AV 14 = .2 Wrecked or better

Paladins Versus AV 10 = .9 Wrecked Results

 

Terminators Versus MEQ = 2.8 unsaved wounds

Terminators Versus GEQ = 8.7 unsaved wounds (Assuming no armor save)

Terminators Versus Terminators = 1.36 unsaved wounds

Terminators Versus AV14 = .1 Wrecked or better

Terminators Versus AV10 = .9 Wrecked or better

 

Now we see an entirely different story. The paladins are more efficient at killing all opponents at range(for equal point costs) when compared to normal terminators using the most cost effective setups possible, with the exception of GEQ. Paladins are also more resilient against all forms of shooting with the exception of S8+ AP2-. It also takes many more unsaved wounds to reduce the combat effectiveness of Paladins when compared to the Terminators against all non S8+ AP2- weaponry.

 

Paladins are Awesome. I run 3x5 at 2k and have been supremely impressed with how they have performed as a whole. Not to mention that having Driago, 15 different paladins(well 3 identical squads), and 3 Dreadknights is just awesome to see on the table and so much fun to play.