Dreadknight rules Question

[Fat_Lad]

Guys, this may seem like a silly question but I'm going to ask it anyway. If I take a Dreadknight with a Nemesis Greatsword do I lose the plus one attack for two close combat weapons? I ask this as I think both the Nemesis Greatsword and Doomfist are special weapons and the ruesbook states that if two different special weapons are used then the extra attack cannot be gained, i didn't know if anything overrode this in this case.

[Chengar Qordath]

Guys, this may seem like a silly question but I'm going to ask it anyway. If I take a Dreadknight with a Nemesis Greatsword do I lose the plus one attack for two close combat weapons? I ask this as I think both the Nemesis Greatsword and Doomfist are special weapons and the ruesbook states that if two different special weapons are used then the extra attack cannot be gained, i didn't know if anything overrode this in this case.

Looking over the rules, I think it's a bit of a grey area, but I'd lean towards saying you do lose an attack according to RAW. While Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons like the Doomfist are supposed to grant an additional attack even when paired with another special close combat weapon, the entry in the BRB only refers to this happening with Walkers, and the Dreadknight is a Monstrous Creature.

[Zagman]

There is no grey area. They are both special close combat weapons, therefore you do not gain an additional attack for having two of the same close combat weapon. Though, if you run the math the Greatsword outperforms the other weapons against everything but Stationary AV14. I have been running each of my DreadKnights with Greatswords. Do not underestimate the power of those rerolls.

[Gentlemanloser]

Technically, the Doomfist is a Power Weapon and a Force Weapon.

 

The Greatsword is a power Weapon and a Force Weapon. There's no reaosn you shouldn't get the extra attack.

 

This is of course taking the RAW that the fists don't double the NDKs Strength, as that's only listed for Walkers, not MCs.

[Zagman]

Technically, the Doomfist is a Power Weapon and a Force Weapon.

 

The Greatsword is a power Weapon and a Force Weapon. There's no reaosn you shouldn't get the extra attack.

 

This is of course taking the RAW that the fists don't double the NDKs Strength, as that's only listed for Walkers, not MCs.

 

Except the Greatsword allows rerolls and the Doomfist is a DCCW.

[Gentlemanloser]

Deosn't matter.

 

The Greatsword is a force Weapon and a Power Weapon. The Doomfist is a Force Weapon and Power Weapon. One allows rerolls (like the Brotherhood Champion's annointed Blade), the other doubles Stength on Walkers.

 

The special extras they do don't change thier basic types. And they're both the same basic type of weapon. Force/Power. :D

[The Rose Princes]

no, because the Greatsword has speaical rules that the doomfist do no have they cannot be combined to get an extra attack.... that would be saying that the doomfist attacks can also reroll hits wounds an armor pen. since doomfists cannot, they cannot be combined.

[Gentlemanloser]

As far as I recall, Power Weapons don't need to have identical effects to be able to be used together, they just have to be power weapons. It's only Power Fists, L Claws and T Hammers that require a specific match.

 

As I recall, the other special CCW is counted as a normal CCW, so you'd get the second attack from two CCWs.

 

That only doesn't happen when you use a Fist, T Hammer or L Claw.

 

Edit: If you had both a Fist and Power Wepaon, you could use the Power Wepaon and claim the Fist as a +1 attack as a normal CCW. But you couldn't the other way round, as you need a second Fist.

[Roesor]

Tempted when I get mine to keep the sword for a normal model o.o Maybe a Cloud conversion or somesuch.

 

But yeah I'd def' say, especially with all the benefits, you lose the extra attack.

[Iron Lord]

As far as I recall, Power Weapons don't need to have identical effects to be able to be used together, they just have to be power weapons. It's only Power Fists, L Claws and T Hammers that require a specific match.

 

I thought it was the other way round- only weapons explicitly called out as able to get extra attack if used with an ordinary CCW, can get extra attack- otherwise, they have to be the same type of weapon.

 

The Doomfist is a Dreadnought CCW, + a Force weapon, the Greatsword is a Force Weapon, + special abilities.

 

That said- don't statlines not include any extra attacks from having two of the same weapon?

 

So, a standard Dreadknight has 3 attacks baseline, and when the doomfists are accounted for, 4 attacks.

 

A Dreadknight with another weapon (hammer, or sword), has 3 attacks- which can be either the special weapon, or the basic doomfist, but not both?

 

That's what it seems like, anyway.

[Zerodyme]

I have a further Question:

If the Doomfists double the strength of the Dreadknight, what exactly is the point of taking the Hammer? Maybe there is something good hidden, and I just don't see it...

[Iron Lord]

Automatic "Crew shaken" on vehicles- in addition to the effects of the glancing or penetrating hit (or neither if you roll badly enough).

 

Unless I'm remembering wrong and it's "crew stunned".

[Gentlemanloser]

I think the confusion is that people assume the Doomfist is like a powerfist (Becuase it doubles Walker Strength), and as such requires another doomfist to get the off hand attack.

 

It doesn't. It's a Power Weapon (and also a Force Weapon).

 

You can (again IIRC) use a Force Weapon and Power Sword together, and get +1A when using either weapon. You get the choice of which out of the two to use, and the other counts as a normal CCW, giving +1A.

 

The only time this doesn't happen is when you use a single Lightning Claw, Power Fist or Thunderhammer. As these three specifically state they need another weapon of the same type to gian the +1A.

[Iron Lord]

Don't the Dreadnought rules actually specifically state that a Dreadnought with two Dreadnought CCWs, has more attacks than a Dreadnought with one?

[Gentlemanloser]

Yes.

 

Becuase a Dreadnought with only 1 DCCW has only 1 CCW. And can't get the extra attack for having a second CCW. As it doesn't have one...

[Zagman]

I think the confusion is that people assume the Doomfist is like a powerfist (Becuase it doubles Walker Strength), and as such requires another doomfist to get the off hand attack.

 

It doesn't. It's a Power Weapon (and also a Force Weapon).

 

You can (again IIRC) use a Force Weapon and Power Sword together, and get +1A when using either weapon. You get the choice of which out of the two to use, and the other counts as a normal CCW, giving +1A.

 

The only time this doesn't happen is when you use a single Lightning Claw, Power Fist or Thunderhammer. As these three specifically state they need another weapon of the same type to gian the +1A.

 

You are incorrect. The BRB lists the most widely used special close combat weapons, it is not an inclusive list. Therefore any specific combination of special rules ie PW + Rerolls + FW is different that Dbls S + PW + FW.

 

Under the rules for two different close combat weapons you cannot claim the extra attack.

 

A Dreadnought with multiple CCWs can claim an exra attack and is not limity by the matching special weapons rules. It will be a stretch to claim that since a Doomfist is a DCCW, and a dreadknight can use a Doomfist, that a dreadknight can claim the extra attack. Certainly not RAW.

[Gentlemanloser]

Can someone be so kind as to quote that section from the main book, as I'm at work.

 

I'm quite sure it allows you to use both a Power Weapon and another special CCW (not a Fist/L Claw/Hammer) and get a second attack.

[The Rose Princes]

you are mixing up two parts of the same page. Special Weapon and Normal Weapon is where that Power Fist, Thunderhammer & Lightning Claw ruling is... a Nemesis Greatsword is not a normal weapon and a Nemesis Doomfist is not a normal weapon. they are also neither the same weapon. therefore you look at the last section on page 42 of the main rule book where it says "Two different Special Weapons" and follow those rules.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm sure there was an example there aobut using a Power Fist and a power Wepaon togehter, but as said, I can't check for sure. ;)

[Ashe Darke]

The Doom Fist is not just a power weapon. It is a power weapon that has a special ability. It doubles the strength of walkers. Just because the Dreadknight can't use the ability it doesn't mean the ability goes away and the weapon stops being a special weapon.

 

You'd have a power weapon that re-roll etc and a power weapon that doubles the S of walkers. That is 2 different special rules and as per the rulebook you cannot gain an extra attack and you must choose which weapon's abilities your attacks will have. Although why anyone wouldn't want the re-rolls is beyond me.

[StormTAG]

So you could either take your base attacks with the Greatsword *or* take your base attacks with the Doomfist, correct?

[Ashe Darke]

So you could either take your base attacks with the Greatsword *or* take your base attacks with the Doomfist, correct?

Pretty much but seen as the Doomfist RAW does nothing more than the Great Sword you'll be using the Great Sword.

[Fat_Lad]

I think I've got to agree that you won't get an extra attack, here is an extract from the rulebook which states the rues for using 2 different special weapons which a greatsword and doomfist clearly are.

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5589827884_42d5ff7086.jpg

[Zagman]

Can someone be so kind as to quote that section from the main book, as I'm at work.

 

I'm quite sure it allows you to use both a Power Weapon and another special CCW (not a Fist/L Claw/Hammer) and get a second attack.

 

Being quite sure and arguing with people who are looking at the BRB seem futile. Wait till you are done at work, read the applicable section, then comment.

[Gentlemanloser]

LoL!

 

But then I'd have to work. :)

 

Thanks for the pic FL, I stand corrected. :)

 

You wouldn't get an additional attack with a Doomfist and Greatsword.