1Drop Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Ok so just a quick question here, I run a 10 man DC unit (no jp's) + a chaplain and DC dreadnaught in a stormraven Now I have just added lemartes to my army and I want to attach him to this unit replacing the Chaplin so basically all I want to know is will this present any problems with lemartes having a jp and the rest of the unit being without jp's? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 nope itsw a good to go. just rember that he uses 2 spaces.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 nope itsw a good to go. just rember that he uses 2 spaces.... Yeah, there's 12 spaces yeah? So that's 10 DC and lemartes plus brother Sygnus = all kinds of hurt bound for the squishies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 yup, tis goooooooddd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Just keep in mind Lemartes can't use his JP to move if you stick him in a unit without them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Just keep in mind Lemartes can't use his JP to move if you stick him in a unit without them. Yeah, I guess I'll have to live with that then.. Again this doesn't hinder him as an asset to the unit too much does it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 not at all. just means your paying for his jump pack and not gaining the benifit until everyone but him is dead. id rather run him the way your planning than another way. think that is the best way. well that i have come accross so far anyway. what you get fr what you pay with lemartes makes itworth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Just keep in mind Lemartes can't use his JP to move if you stick him in a unit without them. Yeah, I guess I'll have to live with that then.. Again this doesn't hinder him as an asset to the unit too much does it? Other than his JP is useless until everyone else is dead, no, he MAGNIFIES the unit and buffs it with rerolls to Hit and Wound. Just allocate the 1st single non-PW/ID Wound to him and watch him :huh: your enemies!!! @ Rules Lawyers: Would it be unfair to forego the dice and just "give" Lemartes a single non-PW/ID Wound? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Yes. You cannot do that. Even if you want to fail it, you have to roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhx711 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 @ Rules Lawyers: Would it be unfair to forego the dice and just "give" Lemartes a single non-PW/ID Wound? Had this come up in a recent game. He not only has to roll to save vs armor but also has to attempt FNP if the armor save is failed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 But I would say it is not necessary to fail the FnP roll to unleash Lemartes fury, because the rule only requires a failed save. FnP is no normal save, so if you fail your 3+ we have a failed save and the fury is active. So from my point of view you can have a Lemartes with 2 wounds and the unbound fury. Regards Sang Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 But I would say it is not necessary to fail the FnP roll to unleash Lemartes fury, because the rule only requires a failed save. FnP is no normal save, so if you fail your 3+ we have a failed save and the fury is active. So from my point of view you can have a Lemartes with 2 wounds and the unbound fury. Regards Sang Interesting. At first I thought you were wrong but checking the FNP rule it seems you are indeed correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 But I would say it is not necessary to fail the FnP roll to unleash Lemartes fury, because the rule only requires a failed save. FnP is no normal save, so if you fail your 3+ we have a failed save and the fury is active. So from my point of view you can have a Lemartes with 2 wounds and the unbound fury. Regards Sang Interesting. At first I thought you were wrong but checking the FNP rule it seems you are indeed correct. IIRC, Lemartes' entry states that he gains the A/STR bonuses after he is reduced to one wound; however, I know it does not say "If Lemartes fails an armor save but succeeds on a FNP". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 But I would say it is not necessary to fail the FnP roll to unleash Lemartes fury, because the rule only requires a failed save. FnP is no normal save, so if you fail your 3+ we have a failed save and the fury is active. So from my point of view you can have a Lemartes with 2 wounds and the unbound fury. Regards Sang Interesting. At first I thought you were wrong but checking the FNP rule it seems you are indeed correct. IIRC, Lemartes' entry states that he gains the A/STR bonuses after he is reduced to one wound; however, I know it does not say "If Lemartes fails an armor save but succeeds on a FNP". It says, "If Lemartes suffers an unsaved wound but is not slain". FNP is only triggered by taking an unsaved wound, thus fulfilling the criteria. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2712721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 But I would say it is not necessary to fail the FnP roll to unleash Lemartes fury, because the rule only requires a failed save. FnP is no normal save, so if you fail your 3+ we have a failed save and the fury is active. So from my point of view you can have a Lemartes with 2 wounds and the unbound fury. Regards Sang Interesting. At first I thought you were wrong but checking the FNP rule it seems you are indeed correct. IIRC, Lemartes' entry states that he gains the A/STR bonuses after he is reduced to one wound; however, I know it does not say "If Lemartes fails an armor save but succeeds on a FNP". It says, "If Lemartes suffers an unsaved wound but is not slain". FNP is only triggered by taking an unsaved wound, thus fulfilling the criteria. This had me running to my rulebook. It seems that the clincher to this debate is whether or not FNP is classified as a save in and of itself, because while being triggered by a model suffering an unsaved wound, wouldn't any wounds it cancels out technically become "saved" wounds? The language in the rulebook doesn't directly classify the FNP roll as a save, this seems technically correct, at least until some sort of errata is published on the topic. Until then, I would bring this discussion to your individual hobby groups and gauge the general opinion on it, and if you want to try to bring this into a competitive setting DEFINITELY check ahead of time with the tournament coordinator/hobby manager because IMPO, this seems like the kind of rules lawyering that could cause disagreements among players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2713202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 To be honest, it does sort of make sense from a fluff point of view. FNP represents a model taking the hit but carrying on regardless. This sort of fits with the idea of triggering Lemartes fury, even though he's not technically lost a wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2713216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 To be honest, it does sort of make sense from a fluff point of view. FNP represents a model taking the hit but carrying on regardless. This sort of fits with the idea of triggering Lemartes fury, even though he's not technically lost a wound. Actually it represents a model with this ability (FNP) suffering an unsaved wound, but then ignoring the wound to continue fighting. [bRB,pg 75] :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2713563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 I would go on one wound lost unless it specifies that it only comes into effect when he has one wound left. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2713814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenocidal Maniac Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Wow. It never fails to amaze me. Lemartes having unbound fury while still having two wounds is so clearly against RAI. I am not sure how anyone can argue otherwise in good conscience, to be honest. You know that GW doesn't write rules very well. This is just poor rules writing, and not a hidden easter egg. I'll just be honest, if someone tried to argue this interpretation in a game with me, I'd simply pack up and leave. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2713840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 That's fair enough, I haven't personally read the IC rules for Lemartes yet but it does sound alot more like his 'unbound rage'' kicks in when he is nearly dead thus has one wound left or atleast this is what I understood first of all when I read about the character on the GW website. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2713850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Search-Fu to the rescue!!! Try this gents ===>>> http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...hl=Unbound+Fury Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2714053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Search-Fu to the rescue!!! Try this gents ===>>> http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...hl=Unbound+Fury Reading that thread, I'm still of the opinion that, RAW, Lemartes can get Fury and then try FNP. Nobody came up with any persuasive argument, let alone quoted any rule, that contradicts what DynamicType and o'rieley in that thread and Deus_Sanguinius in this were saying, ie: Fury Unbound occurs after suffering 'an unsaved wound' p43 C:BA. FNP roll takes place after suffering 'an unsaved wound' p75 BRB. RAI, is another matter and, as I don't even have Lemartes in my army, it's unlikely to crop up in any of my games, but there is a strong argument in both rules and fluff to support the position. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226489-lemartes-in-a-stormraven/#findComment-2714347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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