The Summoning

[spec.ops]

Question:

 

-If a Lib is attached to an Interceptor squad can he use the "summoning" after the shunt movement?

 

-If a Lib is attached to a strike squad can he use the "summoning" after deep striking?

 

-And, how many times can a Lib attempt the "summoning?"

 

From my assumption, question 1 and 2 are both a firm no since the rules for the "summoning" state, "This power can only be used at the beginning of the librarian's movement phase." Meaning, before the Lib moves from point A to B in any instance forfeits its use. And, for question 3 I was unable to find anything stating I couldn't use more than once.

 

So, am I wright or wrong...

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Agreed 1 and 2 are no go.

 

As for 3, I'd say as many times as he has psychic power uses per turn. (2 I believe) eg. Chaos Sorcerers can use Gift of Chaos multiple times per turn.

[alloyslayer]

You can upgrade him so he could use it 3 times every turn

[spec.ops]

thanks, for the fast reply.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

-If a Lib is attached to an Interceptor squad can he use the "summoning" after the shunt movement?

 

Nope, he has to do his ninja magic at the beginning of the Movement phase.

 

-If a Lib is attached to a strike squad can he use the "summoning" after deep striking?

 

Also means he can't Summon if he Deepstriked that turn.

 

-And, how many times can a Lib attempt the "summoning?"

 

Once. You can't use duplicate powers unless explicitly stated by a special rule relating to the psyker. As it is, he can attempt it once, then have a go with another power. Remember, 'Sanctuary' and 'Shrouding' are cast in the enemy turn, 'Quicksilver' and 'Might' are cast at the beginning of any assault phase (so yours or opponents). 'Summoning' is the odd one out (well that and 'Warp Rift', but thats your hax flamer power).

[Marshall666]

-If a Lib is attached to an Interceptor squad can he use the "summoning" after the shunt movement?

 

Nope, he has to do his ninja magic at the beginning of the Movement phase.

 

-If a Lib is attached to a strike squad can he use the "summoning" after deep striking?

 

Also means he can't Summon if he Deepstriked that turn.

 

-And, how many times can a Lib attempt the "summoning?"

 

Once. You can't use duplicate powers unless explicitly stated by a special rule relating to the psyker. As it is, he can attempt it once, then have a go with another power. Remember, 'Sanctuary' and 'Shrouding' are cast in the enemy turn, 'Quicksilver' and 'Might' are cast at the beginning of any assault phase (so yours or opponents). 'Summoning' is the odd one out (well that and 'Warp Rift', but thats your hax flamer power).

 

Could you show me a reference that states this?

 

I cant find anything in the BRB that talks about casting duplicate powers. The only ones that i can see as being limited are the psychic shooting attacks, as it states that attempting a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon (not mentioning if it is successful or not).

 

Regards

 

- Marshall

[gil galed]

Actually it seems providing it isn't a shooting attack it can be used multiple times. That's what all the faqs seem to suggest anyway.

 

~Gil :cuss

[Ashe Darke]

Actually it seems providing it isn't a shooting attack it can be used multiple times. That's what all the faqs seem to suggest anyway.

 

~Gil :(

Provided you don't try and cast on a unit you failed to cast on.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hmm, interesting...had a leaf through the BRB and it appears there aren't any such restrictions on non-shooting attack powers.

 

Double 'Might of Titan'....:(

[IraSummers]

1) A libby could be attached to the interceptor, but because he does not have the teleporter, they have no shunt or move over 6" as a unit moves as fast as its slowest member. So it would not mean anything any way.

 

2) Why could he not summon if he deepstrikes. Both take place at the beginning of the movement phase and nothing says which is before the other. I see no problem with Deepstriking, even if it is just him (as he is in terminator armor) then summoning.

[Techmarine Harkus]

I don't think he should be able to cast it after a deep strike move. I had an issue the other day with 'beginning of turn' because several things use this with no indication as to what happens 'first'.

 

The way I see it though, at the start of the movement phase, the librarian is not on the board and thus cant cast.

Or

The phase starts, you roll for reserves, he comes on, he is deployed by deep strike. He now cannot cast becaues it is not the start of the movement phase anymore, (and) he has already moved. Deep striking is considered to replace your normal move after all.

 

What I wanted to say in this thread, further to a previous one about 'can you summon troops that are falling back' (now in the growing FAQ list)... I don't know if it got a mention in that thread, but (assuming the answer to the above is 'yes') you could also summon a unit that has gone to ground. (fair enough, it dosen't say you cant yeh?) What's cool though, is that they are no longer considered to have gone to ground at all. The FAQ for the rulebook has the question "Q: If a unit has gone to ground and is forced to move other than to fall back, do they return to normal or still count as having gone to ground?" "A: Return to normal." Seems pretty neat, since the unit can then shoot and assault as normal and even go to ground again in the next enemy shooting phase if it wishes (or is forced to). Does the FAQ question need to be updated with this as well?

[DV8]

Why could he not summon if he deepstrikes. Both take place at the beginning of the movement phase and nothing says which is before the other. I see no problem with Deepstriking, even if it is just him (as he is in terminator armor) then summoning.

 

The best way is to consider that they happen simultaneously.

 

When Deep Striking, the model begins its movement phase somewhere in never-never land giggling to themselves as they prepare to relocate themselves in whatever manner is deemed appropriate.

 

It is at this point that, should you want to cast powers that happen at the beginning of the Movement phase, you consider if it is allowed to. Is the Librarian on the table? No. Thus, he cannot cast Summoning.

 

It will then end its movement phase in the culmination of its Deep Strike move by appearing on the table, shouting oogie boogie and raising all manner of mischief.

 

 

DV8

[gil galed]

I don't think he should be able to cast it after a deep strike move. I had an issue the other day with 'beginning of turn' because several things use this with no indication as to what happens 'first'.

 

The way I see it though, at the start of the movement phase, the librarian is not on the board and thus cant cast.

Or

The phase starts, you roll for reserves, he comes on, he is deployed by deep strike. He now cannot cast becaues it is not the start of the movement phase anymore, (and) he has already moved. Deep striking is considered to replace your normal move after all.

 

What I wanted to say in this thread, further to a previous one about 'can you summon troops that are falling back' (now in the growing FAQ list)... I don't know if it got a mention in that thread, but (assuming the answer to the above is 'yes') you could also summon a unit that has gone to ground. (fair enough, it dosen't say you cant yeh?) What's cool though, is that they are no longer considered to have gone to ground at all. The FAQ for the rulebook has the question "Q: If a unit has gone to ground and is forced to move other than to fall back, do they return to normal or still count as having gone to ground?" "A: Return to normal." Seems pretty neat, since the unit can then shoot and assault as normal and even go to ground again in the next enemy shooting phase if it wishes (or is forced to). Does the FAQ question need to be updated with this as well?

 

 

Given that they are deep striking they can't assault, but they can shoot if you want :D. Still slightly worried by the fact they appear within 6" and then will presumably scatter (unless Teleport Homer works), but there we go.

 

~Gil ^_^

[IraSummers]

I can see the argument either way, as nothing that I have found says exactly what happens if there are several events that happen at the start of a phase/turn. Hopefully this is an issue that can be solved with a good FAQ/Errata.

 

I also have another argument to the Summoning that I have been seeing. The suggestion that when you do this, the unit still scatters. I can, again, see the argument either way, but I do not think they do. The rule states they are "placed" within 6" and does not mention scatter, as many places it says they scatter as normal when it references the deepstrike rules. I think the deepstrike rule is referenced so it is clear they count as having moved and cannot assult. Agian, an issue hopefully addressed by GW's FAQ/Errata.

[gil galed]

I can see the argument either way, as nothing that I have found says exactly what happens if there are several events that happen at the start of a phase/turn. Hopefully this is an issue that can be solved with a good FAQ/Errata.

 

I also have another argument to the Summoning that I have been seeing. The suggestion that when you do this, the unit still scatters. I can, again, see the argument either way, but I do not think they do. The rule states they are "placed" within 6" and does not mention scatter, as many places it says they scatter as normal when it references the deepstrike rules. I think the deepstrike rule is referenced so it is clear they count as having moved and cannot assult. Agian, an issue hopefully addressed by GW's FAQ/Errata.

 

Personally I really don't feel that this is in need of an FAQ/Erreta at all, it's quite clear that at the start of the movement phase the librarian is not on the field because thats the point at which he moves on to the field. You can't summon something to you if you're not on the field. Once you've arrived its no longer the start of your turn. But given i'm just reiterating others points i'll stop. I'm sure people will continue arguing :D

 

In regards to deep striking However the rules in the BRB state you place a model for deep striking then roll to scatter. So I'm unsure if "place" means they won't scatter. Although given it says place unit it is certainly distinguishable, fingers crossed you don't scatter though eh?

 

~Gil :D

[Techmarine Harkus]

Given that they are deep striking they can't assault, but they can shoot if you want :D. Still slightly worried by the fact they appear within 6" and then will presumably scatter (unless Teleport Homer works), but there we go.

 

~Gil :D

 

Of course, thats what I meant :P I was getting a little carried away by the 'no longer pinned' aspect to consider the rest.

 

(Personally) I think that they should not scatter. Placed by the deep strike rules means in concentric circles following the first, and cannot make further moves/assaults this turn, vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed... It seems a little silly for them to scatter, mainly because there are good odds on deepstrike misshap even if you dont scatter, what with the possibiliy of summoning a 10 man terminator unit... The base size makes for rather large concentric circles. Not to mention to possibility of trying to redeploy a Landraider with a Warp Stabalisation Field (well worth doing at least once just for fun)

 

I belive that if they had intended it to scatter it would say 'immediately redeploy by deepstrike, placing the first model within 6" of the Librarian before scatter.' or words to that effect. That said, I don't really want to get into another rules discussion when the real answer is quite definitely 'I dont really know'. We all know there are points from both sides, and until GW finishes writing what will have to be an epic length FAQ, we will just have to go with whatever makes sense, or whatever our opponents will let us get away with ;)

[gil galed]

Given that they are deep striking they can't assault, but they can shoot if you want :P. Still slightly worried by the fact they appear within 6" and then will presumably scatter (unless Teleport Homer works), but there we go.

 

~Gil :D

 

Of course, thats what I meant ;) I was getting a little carried away by the 'no longer pinned' aspect to consider the rest.

 

(Personally) I think that they should not scatter. Placed by the deep strike rules means in concentric circles following the first, and cannot make further moves/assaults this turn, vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed... It seems a little silly for them to scatter, mainly because there are good odds on deepstrike misshap even if you dont scatter, what with the possibiliy of summoning a 10 man terminator unit... The base size makes for rather large concentric circles. Not to mention to possibility of trying to redeploy a Landraider with a Warp Stabalisation Field (well worth doing at least once just for fun)

 

I belive that if they had intended it to scatter it would say 'immediately redeploy by deepstrike, placing the first model within 6" of the Librarian before scatter.' or words to that effect. That said, I don't really want to get into another rules discussion when the real answer is quite definitely 'I dont really know'. We all know there are points from both sides, and until GW finishes writing what will have to be an epic length FAQ, we will just have to go with whatever makes sense, or whatever our opponents will let us get away with ;)

 

I agree with it being silly, it makes it pretty dangerous and I imagine it will be changed so that either teleport homers make them not scatter or else they just don't scatter. But people keep forgetting that deep strike rules are that they scatter. You can't follow deep strike rules without scatters...

 

~Gil :D