JeffJ Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 There seems to be a strong consensus on equipping dreadnoughts with auto-cannons w/psybolts, but does anyone like the idea of an assault cannon w/psybolts (essentially making it a psycannon) in exchange for 1 of the auto-cannon arms? I'm planning on advancing my dreadnoughts with the rest of my force so I'm wondering if the S7 assault cannon would be the better option? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I'll qualify this by saying I have little to no actual experience fielding dreadnoughts. However, looking at it from an analytical cost/benefit standpoint, I see the following: pros assault cannon: potential rending allows it to deal with any and all armor values, high shot output cons assault cannon: short range, weapon is duplicated on the rest of our forces in psycannons pros autocannon: long range allows for better fire support of advancing troops, twin-linked allows each shot to count more often, higher strength cons autocannon: lack of rending means it can only glance AV14 I personally am leaning towards the autocannons as they seem to provide something the rest of the army lacks (range) while maintaining strength and the ability to hurt transports and high toughness critters. The HS psybolt ammo "rifleman" is only 135 points, a real bargain especially when you factor in the reinforced aegis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2712871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 It seems like a pretty reasonable option. The Assault Cannon isn't twin-linked, but two extra shots help to mitigate that, plus with rending it can potentially be more effective than the autocannon. It isn't going to be as dependable as an autocannon, but can do more (potentially). I'm going to have to give it a whirl! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2712872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Statistically the Psycannon is better than a TL Autocannon, however you are taking the Dread for the cheap long ranged shots, rather than the psycannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2712877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dylan Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 It seems like a pretty reasonable option. The Assault Cannon isn't twin-linked, but two extra shots help to mitigate that, plus with rending it can potentially be more effective than the autocannon. It isn't going to be as dependable as an autocannon, but can do more (potentially). I'm going to have to give it a whirl! This is how I've been running them and to great effect. While I've used only normal dreads I imagine venerable dreads with assault cannons are even more of a no brainer due to their high ballistic skill. This may be a bit off topic but while were on dreadnought weapons, has anyone given the twinlinked heavy flamer and ccw w/heavy flamer +psyflame a try? I'm thinking combined with a stormraven we could have a deadly combo and our own version of a close combat dread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2712884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 I'll qualify this by saying I have little to no actual experience fielding dreadnoughts. However, looking at it from an analytical cost/benefit standpoint, I see the following: pros assault cannon: potential rending allows it to deal with any and all armor values, high shot output cons assault cannon: short range, weapon is duplicated on the rest of our forces in psycannons pros autocannon: long range allows for better fire support of advancing troops, twin-linked allows each shot to count more often, higher strength cons autocannon: lack of rending means it can only glance AV14 I personally am leaning towards the autocannons as they seem to provide something the rest of the army lacks (range) while maintaining strength and the ability to hurt transports and high toughness critters. The HS psybolt ammo "rifleman" is only 135 points, a real bargain especially when you factor in the reinforced aegis. There are definitely good arguments for both sides. Both dreadnoughts cost 135 too so they can be interchanged in a list. I figured there might simply be more versatility with the S7 assault cannon and 1 S8 auto-cannon instead of 2 auto-cannons but I'm not sure. I think keeping the rifleman dreadnought in the back would be good long range support but it would waste the reinforced aegis which is one of the dreadnoughts best rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2712889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 If you choose to run an assault cannon run it as either Assault cannon psybolt with heavy flamer and psyflame or as an Assault cannon and TLAC psybolt. Either way these should be venerable as the 24" range Assault cannon puts you too close to melta range of your enemy. IMO keep them cheeap and far away or make the Venerable and march them up along with your army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The thing about dreadnoughts is that they can fill roles that the GKs simply can't. All infantry squads in our codex have more or less the same options, and all excel at anti-infantry. Sure, S7 rending psycannons are good against transports and enemy dreads, but then you sacrifice 8 other bodies' worth of shooting, which could obliterate many infantry squads. The dread not only offers superior light-armour busting in the form of 4 linked S8 shots, it also offers the unique and invaluable option for heavy-armour busting in the form of lascannons, multi-meltas, and DCCWs. There is really no good reason to have the dread duplicate what every other squad in your army is already doing, when it could instead provide crucial support against AV13-14, which you simply can't get in the rest of your army (barring thunderhammers in CC, which has obvious drawbacks as a Plan A). Given that, I recommend either a lascannon, autocannon, or multi-melta as your primary gun, and either an autocannon or DCCW as your secondary. The dual-auto, or Rifleman, build obviously gives you the best efficiency with the psybolt upgrade, and by far the best chances to hit what you're shooting. However, while it is excellent at busting AV10-12, and ok at 13, it really starts to diminish in effectiveness as you near the top of the range. The lascannon is a little bit better, though worse against lower armour values. The multi-melta is the run-away best choice against AV14, and I would guess 13 as well, but you need to get really damn close to use it, and it has the worst chance to-hit of any. Overall, I advocate 1 of 4 builds: 1) 2x auto 2) las, auto 3) las, DCCW 4) melta, DCCW Numbers 1 and 4 are probably my favorites, but all can fulfill specific battlefield roles that cannot be fulfilled by GK infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I am liking the thought of the assault cannon with psybolt and hvy flamer dread strapped on the underbody of a stormraven with a libby. He helps protect your forward units with reinforced ageis. The reinforced ageis along with a librarians hood should be pretty good at shutting down psychic powers. Also I like the heavy flamer over the the stormbolter/psybolter simply because greyknight armies are small, and hordes (or just being out numbered, or just too many guys in cover) can actually be a big problem. Ven dreads are pretty expensive costing around 200 points or more. If you happen to take a vindicare and snipe out the fist model... a normal dread can be a nasty tarpit in cc with a large squad of boys or something similar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notanoob Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 If you do want to run an Assault Cannon w/psybolts, make it a Venerable one and keep the DCCW arm. That gives you a good amount of dakka, durability, and versatility (Rending and the DCCW). Still, it's hardly worth the extra mile, the psyfleman load out is just so good at ripping up AV12 it's amazing. It's also very useful in taking down mid-sized Tyranid creatures, like Warriors and Zoanthropes. Never forget how useful being able to ID T4 guys is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Venerable Dreadnoughts are way too expensive, plus they live in Elite, our most contested Force Org slot. In Heavy, all you're competing with are Dreadknights (and typically you should have room for one and two Dreadnoughts). How you build him depends on what you want him doing. If close-combat is the go (and you have to admit, a DCCW force weapon is winsauce) - Dreadnought w/multi-melta, DCCW (115 points) Cheap, nasty, kills tanks and big monsters that would smush your precious Knights otherwise. Gets lifts from Stormravens, or for 5 points extra you can summon him with a Librarian (just remember to have a few servo-skulls nearby to reduce scatter). If you want fire support (lets be honest, Purifiers wreck most things in combat without Dreadnought help), then there are two ways to go - Dreadnought w/2 x twin-linked autocannons, psybolts (135 points Every internet list has two or three of these. I'd take two and leave a Heavy slot free for a Dreadknight. - Dreadnought w/assault cannon, twin autocannon, psybolts (135 points Provides fire support in early game, then moves up field to break things even harder. Less dakka than the other guy, but only for a turn or two until you get in range. Moar psycannon is never a bad thing (as you never have enough), so it's worth considering if you plan on keeping mobile. Rending is a big deal vs heavy armour, it lets you do more than glance most of the time (or in the case of AV14, do anything but glance). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnothere Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Not posted here in a while but I'm running the following in HS: Dreadknight - Jump Pack Psyfleman Dread Asscannon, SB, DCCW, Psybolts Dread Psyfleman stays in support of a strike squad while the DK jumps forward. This is supported by a purifiers in a storm raven with the Asscannon Dread. Should put a lot of pressure on one area whilst the Psyfleman targets anything that might be a fqst responder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Thats a pretty nasty combo. Good mix of roles there. Everyone around teh blogs and forums seems so enamoured of just spamming the Riflemen pattern, without thinking about alternatives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Asscannon, SB, DCCW, Psybolts Dread Psyfleman stays in support of a strike squad while the DK jumps forward. This is supported by a purifiers in a storm raven with the Asscannon Dread. I've been considering that myself. :cuss With a Libby in the SR for Shrouding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnothere Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 It's also cheeper than the Psyfleman by 5pts. Hadn't considered the Libby with the squad but it makes sense - it also means my GM can stay with my Strikes. The only question left is when do you deploy? Do you rely on the shrouding and stay in the storm raven or do you disembark and let loose. Personnally I'm planning on getting out and letting loose - Now my opponent has to deal with 4+ targets in one area rather than 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Two other considerations: -The FW psycannon arm is very cool looking. -Breaking from the rifleman spam will help with sportsmanship since it doesn't look as WAAC. Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The only question left is when do you deploy? Do you rely on the shrouding and stay in the storm raven or do you disembark and let loose. Personnally I'm planning on getting out and letting loose - Now my opponent has to deal with 4+ targets in one area rather than 2. Stay in the turn you Flat Out (for a sweet 3+ Cover save), then get out next turn and keep everything within 12" of the Libby for more Cover Save + Stealth goodies. ;) Close Range Dread with a 5+ cover save! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberame Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The only question left is when do you deploy? Do you rely on the shrouding and stay in the storm raven or do you disembark and let loose. Personnally I'm planning on getting out and letting loose - Now my opponent has to deal with 4+ targets in one area rather than 2. Stay in the turn you Flat Out (for a sweet 3+ Cover save), then get out next turn and keep everything within 12" of the Libby for more Cover Save + Stealth goodies. :) Close Range Dread with a 5+ cover save! :) Pfft keep the Dreadnought behind the Librarian and squad to get obscured and give him a 3+ cover! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226518-dreadnought-weapons/#findComment-2713498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.