The 13th Goat Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Anyone else noticed that Bjorn the Fell Handed seems to lose his arm in two seperate events on Prospero. In Prospero Burns, its to some Horus/Amon/Navid deamon that tears it off while trying to save Hawser. In collected visons, he seem's to be in a different rank and gets it poisoned by a Thousand Sons sorcerer. Am I reading this wrong? Or do we have other canon issue on our hand? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 This is one of those instances where what actually happened isn't the same as what Imperial records state. Given the nature of Imperial records (and their age, let alone their intriguing preference for 'good facts' over 'true facts'), it'll be a prevalent theme in the whole Age of Darkness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Traben Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Wasn't bjorn part of Russ's wolf guard in older fluff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiberium40k Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Its simply a retcon. The Valdor and Wolf Guard fluff have been changed into hawser. I very much prefer the older stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Its simply a retcon. The Valdor and Wolf Guard fluff have been changed into hawser. Â No, I don't think it is. I'm pretty certain there'll be references to Valdor doing it by the end of the series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiberium40k Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 No, I don't think it is. I'm pretty certain there'll be references to Valdor doing it by the end of the series. Â Facts changed for the benefit of the in-universe humans is fine, but from my point of view, it is a retcon of older fluff. With all due respect, you can shout "propaganda" and "lies" at the Collected Visions, but IMO that is just a way for writers to purposely change some of the established fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 No, I don't think it is. I'm pretty certain there'll be references to Valdor doing it by the end of the series. Â Facts changed for the benefit of the in-universe humans is fine, but from my point of view, it is a retcon of older fluff. With all due respect, you can shout "propaganda" and "lies" at the Collected Visions, but IMO that is just a way for writers to purposely change some of the established fluff. Â I'm not sure what it is, myself. I just reckon it'll be Valdor by the end of the Heresy, one way or another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 It will probably end up being Valdor by virtue of the Wolves not wanting to admit its was a human who did it. A human who's been influenced by the Chaos Gods and that they currently have in stasis instead of doing the sensible thing and putting a bolter round through his skull Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmagog Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Valdor doing what? Sorry if I sound silly! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Giving Bjorn's arm the chop. That was the (previous) canon set well before I was even interested in the hobby (15 years and counting). That's changed with Prospero Burns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 And Collected Visions. Which was why I was confused. Recent canon cortradicting itself already. Ah well, A D-B seem's in the know, suprised Black Library let him out to chat with us. Thought they had you lot chained to the writing chairs! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 If that ever happened we would form a legion of highly motivated but utterly useless warriors to break into the great BL dungeon and free ADB! Somehow.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2713976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Joe Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 There's still time for Bjorn to be inducted into Russ' Wolf Guard. As I recall it's mentioned in the earlier fluff that Bjorn was the youngest or newest member of the Wolf Guard when Russ leaves for the Eye of Terror following the heresy. Happy to be proven different! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2714219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 The one thing to remember is that, regardless of who it was, at least we know Bjorn is pretty 'armless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2714239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 it's more about learning the truth about the events at Prospero. Even Hawser mentions in the story, he tells about is the truth. What we knew before Abnett's book, was what was pretty much told to everyone else as a cover story. Kinda like saying "it was only weather balloons" Classified info is classified. If word got out that chaos was so deep rooted in its schemes, and that chaos manipulated its way to influence major events and people, it would cause mass panic and paranoia. My only question is, if the emperor knew the truth of what happened after at Prospero?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2714286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 it's more about learning the truth about the events at Prospero. Even Hawser mentions in the story, he tells about is the truth. What we knew before Abnett's book, was what was pretty much told to everyone else as a cover story. Kinda like saying "it was only weather balloons" Classified info is classified. If word got out that chaos was so deep rooted in its schemes, and that chaos manipulated its way to influence major events and people, it would cause mass panic and paranoia. My only question is, if the emperor knew the truth of what happened after at Prospero?!  This is my opinion as well.  We have two ways of how the tale could be told;  So Bjorn, how did you lose the arm?  1. I lost in a battle against a demonic Horus the Warmaster.  Or  2. I was fighting a Thousand Sons marine who upon dying laid a curse upon my arm and Valdor here cut it off for me.  Consider the another event that also happened on Prospero,  The VI's little wulfen secret is witnessed by the Custodes and Silent Sisterhood and we hear nothing of any investigation from said Custodes and Sisterhood.  Now that lends some credence that the Custodes, the Sisterhood, and even the Emperor would likely be complicit in covering up events that happened on Prospero. How Bjorn lost his arm would just be another thing to be covered up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2715496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adarul Greystalker Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Bjorn was one of Russ' wolf guard at the time that Russ departed for the Eye of Terror, which happened nearly 200 years after the Battle of Terra, so he had more than enough time to be promoted after the Battle of Prospero. In fact, I don't think he's ever referenced as being one of Russ' guards at any time during the heresy, is he? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2716879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 If that ever happened we would form a legion of highly motivated but utterly useless warriors to break into the great BL dungeon and free ADB! Somehow.... Simple. Fly me over and I'll do it :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2717723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Bjorn was one of Russ' wolf guard at the time that Russ departed for the Eye of Terror, which happened nearly 200 years after the Battle of Terra, so he had more than enough time to be promoted after the Battle of Prospero. In fact, I don't think he's ever referenced as being one of Russ' guards at any time during the heresy, is he? Where'd you get that number? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2719696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Bjorn was one of Russ' wolf guard at the time that Russ departed for the Eye of Terror, which happened nearly 200 years after the Battle of Terra, so he had more than enough time to be promoted after the Battle of Prospero. In fact, I don't think he's ever referenced as being one of Russ' guards at any time during the heresy, is he? Where'd you get that number? Â Â He got that from the SW codex 2nd edition which mentions roughly when Russ left the SW if my memory serves me correctly and Adarul Greystalker is correct in stating " he's (Bjorn) never referenced as being one of Russ' guards at any time during the heresy," Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2719771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adarul Greystalker Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 That's correct. Russ was stated as having left the Fang for the last time during the Feast of the Emperor's Ascension 197 years after the Battle of Terra in the 2nd edition codex, but that fact has also been reprinted and you can find it in the 5th edition codex too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226535-bjorn-the-man-with-multiple-amputations/#findComment-2720404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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