Want to start a terminator only army

[whiteridder]

Well the name just says it, I want to start a terminator only army, with for the most part terminators and maybe paladins. I also want landraiders for heavy support, but I also can play without them.

 

What are good HQ's and what unit builds are a good start for this army.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Depends on what point level we're talking

 

In smaller games, take Draigo and only one or two Paladin squads, with regular Terminators as backup

 

In larger games, you can probably take three or even four Paladin squads, and possibly some Stormravens for transport/fire support

 

One thing to remember though, is that you will be quite slow. Very durable (especially Paladins), but you will spend a few turns walking before combat ensues. So, don't forget to take as many psycannons as possible.

 

Another way to help alleviate your lack of speed is to take Dreadknights. With teleport shunt, jump infantry movement and great ability at catching tanks and eating them (greatsword+personal teleporter combo, heavy psycannon if you've got extra points), they can race ahead and tie things up so that when your slowpoke squad arrive, they have the enemy already fighting off your hax flying monsters.

[whiteridder]

Well, I'm talking about 1700 or 1750 points. But are landraiders durable? Also dreadknight, I don't know what to think about it, don't like the model, but at the other hand, got nice stats.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Oh okay, maybe only one or two Paladin squads then. Take 2-3 regular Terminators as backup, then add Dreadknights/Dreadnoughts as you see fit.

 

Landraiders are durable, but enough meltaguns will slag them just like any other codex. They're also hell expensive, like more than a squad again in points. Given your low model count, I'd ditch them for Dreadknights/Dreadnoughts instead. If you're really keen on a transport, you could maybe fit in a Stormraven or two to get Paladins where they need to be.

[nurglez]

another idea is to just take a grand master, and use grand strategy to make a paladin squad scoring. You could also think about taking 2 grand masters, and use psychic communion to deep strike stuff in when you want (though 2 grand masters is expensive heh).

 

Playing a logan wing army, I'm interested in trying out an all terminator grey knight army too, I get around the speed issue by using 3 drop pods in my usual force (due to space wolf termies being unable to deep strike without them). Landraiders are nice, but each one costs the same as a usual squad for me, and at 1500 points I only have 18 termies spread over 4 squads, so I cant afford to take them.

 

Paladins are nice, but they are also really expensive, and any str 8 shots will nullify the extra wound, but ws5 and an extra heavy weapon are very tasty.

[number6]

I would recommend avoiding Paladins. By the time you buy even a single decently kitted out Paladin unit you will find that you could have fielded close to 2 reasonble GKT Troop units. Hey, there's your "two wound terminators" right there! ^_^ Only with a lot more attacks and dakka to hand as well.

 

Any AP 2 shooting weapons -- incredibly common in all Imperial armies, at least -- make GK terminators of all kinds cry because there is no way to get them better than a 5+ invul save against shooting. And in a GKT-only army, what are you going to use to give them 4+ cover saves? Other terminators? :D

 

In any case, even 4+ saves aren't good enough when you're talking about 55+ point models with two wounds that die to cheapie little weapons spammed in all Imperial armies. Don't do it.

 

And don't take Draigo, either. The only reason to include him is for the 3+ invul and Eternal Warrior. But he's just too expensive for those benefits because he's totally unique in the army. :)

 

I'd recommend taking a basic BC as your HQ and standard GKT troop units. Be sure to use at least a couple of stormravens and/or land raiders to protect at least two such units. Having a few shooty units on the ground as well will be required to mix it up. This is the best I think you can do with your concept, but it's not a reasonably competitive army. Nowhere near enough firepower, especially anti-armour firepower. GK termies get bogged down easily in combat. And they still won't have better than 4+ invul saves most of the time. Warding staves are prohibitively expensive and can't be spammed (if you even take any of them at all). The fact is that while GKTs are decent units and are quite killy, they are nowhere near as survivable as your basic TH/SS terminator. :( So you must play your army very carefully indeed to have any hope of success.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Most weapons that ignore a Paladin's armour will instant-kill it so the 2 wounds are kinda pointless. Take the Dark eldar for instance, a Trueborn unit with a Blast pistol on the dracon, 4 blasters and 2 Darklances will get 7 shots at 12 inches needing 3's to hit, 2's to kill and will instant kill your pallies. Apothercary is wasted because of those low ap shots.

 

Wisth so much str8+ AP2 kit out there the paladins are just not worth it.

 

I'd recommend taking a basic BC as your HQ and standard GKT troop units. Be sure to use at least a couple of stormravens and/or land raiders to protect at least two such units. Having a few shooty units on the ground as well will be required to mix it up. This is the best I think you can do with your concept, but it's not a reasonably competitive army. Nowhere near enough firepower, especially anti-armour firepower. GK termies get bogged down easily in combat. And they still won't have better than 4+ invul saves most of the time. Warding staves are prohibitively expensive and can't be spammed (if you even take any of them at all). The fact is that while GKTs are decent units and are quite killy, they are nowhere near as survivable as your basic TH/SS terminator. ;) So you must play your army very carefully indeed to have any hope of success.

 

I'd argue that call 6.

 

The Grandmaster is not that much more expensive and the strategy rule gives you an edge that can be extremely useful.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Been doing some theory on a TDA list.

 

Do 10 man squads for flexibility, you can put in a pair of psycannons and combat squad them if you want smaller scoring units for objectives.

 

Figure out what you want and specialise. If you want close combat go all falchions (maybe give the Justicar a Hammer for tank work). halberds are good if you intend a more defensive play while swords actualy work for the Termies giving a nice 4+ in close combat.

 

Avoid paladins like a plague! They are just not worth it.

[number6]

The Grandmaster is not that much more expensive and the strategy rule gives you an edge that can be extremely useful.

In general, I agree with you. The GM is a great HQ. But for an ALL TERMINATOR list, I think there are better places for the 25 pts. I don't think you need Grand Strategy for the army. One of the 3 GS options really isn't going to be useful, to start with.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

The Grandmaster is not that much more expensive and the strategy rule gives you an edge that can be extremely useful.

In general, I agree with you. The GM is a great HQ. But for an ALL TERMINATOR list, I think there are better places for the 25 pts. I don't think you need Grand Strategy for the army. One of the 3 GS options really isn't going to be useful, to start with.

 

I can see your point, the only one I'd use for Termies would be counter-attack.

[TheReclusiarch]

Isn't Draigo a good way to soak AP 2 shots on your paladins? I mean, even if he saves just one Paladin from instant kill you have just saved a whole lot of points! And with 4 wounds, eternal warrior and 3+ invulnerability save, he can soak quite a bit! Sure, only one melta or lascannon per round, but still! I've heard great things about this guy. ^_^

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Isn't Draigo a good way to soak AP 2 shots on your paladins? I mean, even if he saves just one Paladin from instant kill you have just saved a whole lot of points! And with 4 wounds, eternal warrior and 3+ invulnerability save, he can soak quite a bit! Sure, only one melta or lascannon per round, but still! I've heard great things about this guy. ^_^

 

Points is the issue, Paladins just cost too much for an effective force.

[Godhead]

If you are aren't taking a GKGM, and you want a cheap Termie HQ. Consider an OM Inq in TDA with a Psycannon. Cheap HQ but pretty effective, plus he confers stubborn onto normal GKT.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

another idea is to just take a grand master, and use grand strategy to make a paladin squad scoring. You could also think about taking 2 grand masters, and use psychic communion to deep strike stuff in when you want (though 2 grand masters is expensive heh).

 

True, but what if you want 'Grand Strategy' to use for other reasons? Also, double Grandmaster is stupid, you need the Librarian in every list ever (yeah, even Coteaz's Monkey Army O'Doom).

 

I suggested Draigo because he's so OP at lower point levels, and he's still a beast in 2k+ games. Attach to his bodyguard of Paladins, take regular Terminators and Dreadknights/Dreadnoughts to fill out your points, go to town.

 

I would recommend avoiding Paladins. By the time you buy even a single decently kitted out Paladin unit you will find that you could have fielded close to 2 reasonble GKT Troop units. Hey, there's your "two wound terminators" right there! Only with a lot more attacks and dakka to hand as well.

 

No not really. Regular Terminators are pretty fail with their WS4 and no re-rolls on anything, they stomp infantry but other heavy assault units just maul them. Paladins are delicious win, and you can make them as blingy or as cheap as you like. My two favourite builds are;

 

Economy:

2 x Paladins w/nemesis halberd+psycannon, Paladin w/nemesis hammer, Paladin w/nemesis halberd

(260 points)

 

Only marginally more expensive than a regular Troops squad, brings double the psycannon, perfect for attaching your Librarian/Grandmaster to. WS5 makes a big difference in combat, and the character you attach can make up for the Terminator you dropped.

 

Oh hai Nob Bikers:

 

Apothecary w/nemesis halberd+narthecium, 2 x Paladins w/nemesis halberd+psycannon, Paladin w/nemesis hammer, Paladin w/nemesis halberd

(390 points)

 

Unquestionably a Deathstar at this point, but I'd wager they're pretty effective in combat still. Don't go above 6 models with these guys, otherwise they can't fit in a Stormraven with the character they're protecting.

 

Any AP 2 shooting weapons -- incredibly common in all Imperial armies, at least -- make GK terminators of all kinds cry because there is no way to get them better than a 5+ invul save against shooting. And in a GKT-only army, what are you going to use to give them 4+ cover saves? Other terminators?

 

Good use of terrain and 'Shrouding', just like regular infantry. In a more balanced army, I'd have Purifier Rhinos and Dreadknights blocking LOS. In this context, they either need a Stormraven, or they just need to make good use of cover.

 

AP2 is a pain, no doubt about it, but them's the breaks. If they were storm shielded, they're be completely broken (just like actual Stormhammers, or Black Templar Assault Terminators).

 

In any case, even 4+ saves aren't good enough when you're talking about 55+ point models with two wounds that die to cheapie little weapons spammed in all Imperial armies. Don't do it.

 

3+ due to 'Shrouding' my man, and additionally, you'd be surprised how little AP2 Guard put out at long range. If they're actually coming close enough to rapid-fire plasma, they're in psycannon and assault range by definition, so they roll badly or I save well, next turn I'm eating them and their Chimera.

 

And don't take Draigo, either. The only reason to include him is for the 3+ invul and Eternal Warrior. But he's just too expensive for those benefits because he's totally unique in the army.

 

No, the reasons to include him are several;

 

- Lascannon catcher: Any low AP high Strength that comes you way goes right onto Draigo. With some tricksy wound allocation shenanigans, you can massively increase the durability of your Paladin bodguard.

- 'Grand Strategy': Unlike a Brother-Captain (who was too busy smoking weed on the strike cruiser to pay attention, unlike the winning Grandmasters), he can still perform hax on your army composition.

- Paladins as Troops by default: Instead of having to burn 'Grand Strategy' to make them scoring, you can save it for Outflanking (very good if you plan on footslogging your Paladins). Paladins > Terminators, it's just they can't be spammed (ie you have to take them as bodyguards, so 2 squads max).

- Monster/character annhilator: More critical in higher point games, but still amusing in lower point. Draigo is a complete tank in close-combat, and he'll dish out plenty of death in return

 

I'd recommend taking a basic BC as your HQ and standard GKT troop units. Be sure to use at least a couple of stormravens and/or land raiders to protect at least two such units. Having a few shooty units on the ground as well will be required to mix it up. This is the best I think you can do with your concept, but it's not a reasonably competitive army. Nowhere near enough firepower, especially anti-armour firepower. GK termies get bogged down easily in combat. And they still won't have better than 4+ invul saves most of the time. Warding staves are prohibitively expensive and can't be spammed (if you even take any of them at all). The fact is that while GKTs are decent units and are quite killy, they are nowhere near as survivable as your basic TH/SS terminator. So you must play your army very carefully indeed to have any hope of success.

 

Brother-Captains are next to useless, if you're not taking Paladins at least take a Librarian. A Libby does so much more for the army, I'd consider him a mandatory include in any list you make.

Landraiders are way too expensive for this build, take Stormravens.

I think you're missing the point of this army. We aren't going to sit in cover and trade fire with Long Fangs/IG spam, we'll be hitting a flank with everything at once, then attempting a route up enemy lines. In that context, a psycannon per squad is plenty anti-tank to break through a Rhino/Chimera wall and unless he's fielding an army of Deathstars, Terminators do alright vs basic infantry (not as win as Paladins, but still pretty good).

 

I agree, the all Terminator force isn't as powerful as Deathwing or even Loganwing, but its still pretty effective. You just need to concentrate your forces and launch a decisive Turn 1/2 strike on a section of the enemy.

 

Most weapons that ignore a Paladin's armour will instant-kill it so the 2 wounds are kinda pointless. Take the Dark eldar for instance, a Trueborn unit with a Blast pistol on the dracon, 4 blasters and 2 Darklances will get 7 shots at 12 inches needing 3's to hit, 2's to kill and will instant kill your pallies. Apothercary is wasted because of those low ap shots.

 

Wisth so much str8+ AP2 kit out there the paladins are just not worth it.

 

You're talking about one unit, in one army, which is incredibly fragile to exactly our type of weaponry (massed bolter and psycannon). Also, Dark Lances are heavy weapons, so you can't include them in your scenario. Also, you're not factoring in cover saves.

 

It's like saying Nob Bikers mean Tactical Marines are utterly worthless. Sure, one kills the other pretty hard, but not in every case. For example, if the Marines hide on the second level of a building, they can just laugh and shoot plasma/melta/plasma cannon into the Nobz.

 

Do 10 man squads for flexibility, you can put in a pair of psycannons and combat squad them if you want smaller scoring units for objectives.

 

Figure out what you want and specialise. If you want close combat go all falchions (maybe give the Justicar a Hammer for tank work). halberds are good if you intend a more defensive play while swords actualy work for the Termies giving a nice 4+ in close combat.

 

Avoid paladins like a plague! They are just not worth it.

 

10 man squads are a waste. 5 man can be spammed (as thats the point of the army), and you get Ld9 on all squads (whereas combat squadding leaves one squad with Ld8).

 

Falchions are complete garbage, take halberds every time. Swords are not worth the oppertunity cost, you need to strike first and kill stuff before they kill you. Less enemy models alive when they strike = less wounds on you. A hammer should be placed on a normal Terminator, so that if you suffer 'Perils', you don't lose your hammer as well.

 

I don't understand your reasoning. WS5 is huge vs most infantry, and it forces enemy Deathstars to hit on 4's, which increases you survivability. Paladins are also much more survivable to S7 or less hits, especially so if its not AP2 or power weapon. Make use of cover/Stormraven and 'Shrouding' to get them up the field intact, and they'll pulverise most of what they assault.

 

If you are aren't taking a GKGM, and you want a cheap Termie HQ. Consider an OM Inq in TDA with a Psycannon. Cheap HQ but pretty effective, plus he confers stubborn onto normal GKT.

 

Librarian is better. He grants Ld10 as well, plus his ninja magic is crucial to the success of the army (his close-combat powers make your Terminators actually kill stuff, his 'Sanctuary' and 'Shrouding' let you get the charge and shield your guys from enemy fire).

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Paladins are delicious win, and you can make them as blingy or as cheap as you like. My two favourite builds are;

 

Economy:

2 x Paladins w/nemesis halberd+psycannon, Paladin w/nemesis hammer, Paladin w/nemesis halberd

(260 points)

 

I'm liking the Paladin love, but let's try to keep things legal, shall we? Paladins cannot take Psycannons until there is 5 of them in a squad. You only have 4 in your economy build...

[Resv]

Falchions are pretty badass actually when you pair them up with a Brotherhood Banner, which is one of my favorite upgrades, you can throw out a frightening amount of attacks. If you add a Falchion unit with Quicksilver then you can overcome the initiative issues associated with not having Halberds. I am not saying that Halberds aren't great but Flachions are certainly not rubbish.

[Evilmerlin]

I too am thinking of purchasing a terminator only GK army. Them terminator models are bad ass awesome.

 

Using Librarian as HQ with Sanctuary, Shrouding and Quicksilver, 5x Paladins (psycannon, stave, banner), 10x terminators (2x psycannon, banner, master-crafted weapon) followed by 3 more 5 men terminator squads (psycannon, banner and master crafting). Exactly 1750pts and gives me 31 models on the board.

 

All on foot of course though I think deep striking the paladin squad would be an option.

[Zagman]

I have been playing "Driagowing" since I got my hands on the codex. I also run it with 3 x Dreadknights. 2 which have persoal teleporters, greatswords, and heavy incinerators, one which has a greatsword, heavy incinerator, and heavy psycannon.

 

My 5 man paladin set up looks like this

Daemonhammer + Psycannon

Falshions + Psycannon

Sword

Halberd

Falshions

 

At 2k I have 6-7 kill points depending on the combat squadding of my large unit(2x5 man set up). I also have the ability to make 1-3 dreadknights scoring for objective games. I honestly have been shocked how well this army has been performing. Granted, I haven't been playing against more than a couple of competitive lists; I have run up against quite a bit of scary weaponry including S8+ AP2- templates and assault terminators. Tactical use of the Dreadknights and Driago wound allocation/cover/model placement has made this list quite survivable as most opponents are too busy dealing with with the dreadknights which allows the paladins to use their 24 psycannon shots per turn at 2k to do some damage.

 

If you compare 8 terminators with psycannon and weapons upgrades versus the 5 man paladin setup I have been using. You will find that the paladin set up has more wounds, is cheaper, has more firepower, WS5, Holocaust, and can take potentially 5 wounds before losing combat effectiveness. It does this at the cost of some CC potential(only applicable with unwounded squads) and less survivability to lascannon equivalents.

 

At 2k having Driago, 15 paladins, and 3 dreadknights my opponents have been hard pressed to find enough S8+ AP2- weaponry. After turn two, most games their main AT units are likely to be taking Psycannon shots or Dreadknight assaults.

 

I am loving my Heroes of Titan Army.

[Zagman]

I too am thinking of purchasing a terminator only GK army. Them terminator models are bad ass awesome.

 

Using Librarian as HQ with Sanctuary, Shrouding and Quicksilver, 5x Paladins (psycannon, stave, banner), 10x terminators (2x psycannon, banner, master-crafted weapon) followed by 3 more 5 men terminator squads (psycannon, banner and master crafting). Exactly 1750pts and gives me 31 models on the board.

 

All on foot of course though I think deep striking the paladin squad would be an option.

 

You won't want to put a banner in any unit under 10, especially not in those 5man squads. Losing your NFW to grant an additional attack to your squad mates doesn't make sense until your unit is reaching maximum size. A falshion terminator has 4 attacks on the charge while a banner grants the same number, and only if the 5man squad is uninjured.

 

Don't bother with a banner on any unit under 10 or if you plan on combat squadding them.

 

IMO, banners shouldn't be used in most armies, unless you are using 10man squad and plan on not combat squadding it. Points are at a premium in GK lists, especially termie lists, and are better spend elsewhere.

[Evilmerlin]

Good point. Missed out the part where the banner replaces the NFW. Since that is the case, I think it will be better to merge two of the 5 men squads into a full 10 men one.

 

The question then becomes would it be better to field many 5 men terminator squads or a few 10 men squads?

[Doomaflatchi]

At 2k I have 6-7 kill points depending on the combat squadding of my large unit(2x5 man set up). I also have the ability to make 1-3 dreadknights scoring for objective games. I honestly have been shocked how well this army has been performing. Granted, I haven't been playing against more than a couple of competitive lists; I have run up against quite a bit of scary weaponry including S8+ AP2- templates and assault terminators. Tactical use of the Dreadknights and Driago wound allocation/cover/model placement has made this list quite survivable as most opponents are too busy dealing with with the dreadknights which allows the paladins to use their 24 psycannon shots per turn at 2k to do some damage(...)

 

At 2k having Driago, 15 paladins, and 3 dreadknights my opponents have been hard pressed to find enough S8+ AP2- weaponry. After turn two, most games their main AT units are likely to be taking Psycannon shots or Dreadknight assaults.

 

I am loving my Heroes of Titan Army.

I've been wondering, how do you deploy that list?

 

If you footslog it, mightn't you be better off swapping one Dreadknight for a Librarian to cover their approach with The Shrouding and throw down Sanctuary once you start getting in the thick of it? If you Deepstrike it, what does that one lonely Dreadknight do?

[Zagman]

At 2k I have 6-7 kill points depending on the combat squadding of my large unit(2x5 man set up). I also have the ability to make 1-3 dreadknights scoring for objective games. I honestly have been shocked how well this army has been performing. Granted, I haven't been playing against more than a couple of competitive lists; I have run up against quite a bit of scary weaponry including S8+ AP2- templates and assault terminators. Tactical use of the Dreadknights and Driago wound allocation/cover/model placement has made this list quite survivable as most opponents are too busy dealing with with the dreadknights which allows the paladins to use their 24 psycannon shots per turn at 2k to do some damage(...)

 

At 2k having Driago, 15 paladins, and 3 dreadknights my opponents have been hard pressed to find enough S8+ AP2- weaponry. After turn two, most games their main AT units are likely to be taking Psycannon shots or Dreadknight assaults.

 

I am loving my Heroes of Titan Army.

I've been wondering, how do you deploy that list?

 

If you footslog it, mightn't you be better off swapping one Dreadknight for a Librarian to cover their approach with The Shrouding and throw down Sanctuary once you start getting in the thick of it? If you Deepstrike it, what does that one lonely Dreadknight do?

 

Footslogging. So far I've ended up footslogging every game. Either make the dreadknights scoring for objective games, or scout the footslogging DK and as many paladins as possible. I'm toying with the idea of deepstriking most of the army while outflanking scouting PT dreadknights. Footslogging takes one full turn to get into weapons range, sometimes less thanks to scouting. The DKs shunt first turn usually in a pair to Incinerate something choice and generally draw my opponents attention. If my opponents don't deal with them quickly, they can reap a lot of havoc. And any attention my opponent throws at them means it is firepower that isn't going at my paladins. Also, I run Driago to allocate wounds to. With wound allocation I'm able to keep my psycannons in commission.

 

Most games end up with my dreadknights dieing and my paladins winning the day.

 

I plan on expanding my army to 2.5k by adding another 5 man squad and a librarian for that exact purpose. Should be a blast.

 

P.S. Dreadknights can always deepstrike.

[grimz]

Throw some plasma syphons in there!

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Falchions are pretty badass actually when you pair them up with a Brotherhood Banner, which is one of my favorite upgrades, you can throw out a frightening amount of attacks. If you add a Falchion unit with Quicksilver then you can overcome the initiative issues associated with not having Halberds. I am not saying that Halberds aren't great but Flachions are certainly not rubbish.

 

I'm with you there.

 

I am playing with a ten man GKT squad with Falchions and a Brotherhood banner, Justicar has a Hammer for tank work and a pair of Psycanons. Pointed up a paladin squad with the same equipment, gave the hammer to the apothecary, man the cost was bad, seriously bad, 750 points for just one freaking unit!

[whiteridder]

well thanks for the replays. I'm thinking of ginving my terminators helbards, 1 deamonhammer and swords. But I'm still not sure what to take, paladins or terminators, or maybe both.

 

By the way, grand master can become fast expansive, what to take for him?