Psychic powers

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Hello!

 

Many armies in 40k have access to psychic powers, sometimes a hanful, other times a quite expansive selection. Psychic powers (as I understand) generally can only be prevented by units with psychic abilities. This means that if someone takes a psyker you are also generally obliged to, in order to help counter his powers.

 

What I'd like to know is how deadly and dangerous a psychic using army can be throughout a game and if any of the psychic using armies neccissitate the counter of a psychic with your own. So do we take psychics, even if its just for help denying enemy psychic powers? Or can we forgo psychic powers of any kind and walk away with minimal losses?

[Hellios]

Hello!

 

Many armies in 40k have access to psychic powers, sometimes a hanful, other times a quite expansive selection. Psychic powers (as I understand) generally can only be prevented by units with psychic abilities. This means that if someone takes a psyker you are also generally obliged to, in order to help counter his powers.

 

What I'd like to know is how deadly and dangerous a psychic using army can be throughout a game and if any of the psychic using armies neccissitate the counter of a psychic with your own. So do we take psychics, even if its just for help denying enemy psychic powers? Or can we forgo psychic powers of any kind and walk away with minimal losses?

 

I would say none of the armies require you to take psychic defense to beat them but certain armies can be damaged if they are designed to work around psychic powers and you can shut them down... For example a lot of the Eldar psychic powers don't hurt you but buff their units instead... So imagine I have a unit that has 30 odd bolter shots at BS4... not bad... now imagine if that unit can re-roll all failed hits and all failed wounds for a turn... I've seen 10man biker squads and 5 man terminator squads get wiped out by that kind of thing. How about a big daemon that should you manage to wound it and get it to fail its save can re-roll that save... suck eh?

 

I would say the boosting powers are often more powerful than the offensive one... although if you can stop that librarian from wrecking your tank with vortex of doom... that is great!

 

I guess the key is knowing what powers you will come against and how to deal with them! For example the sword sanguine makes a librarian S10 and that is pretty nasty... however librarians are not that tough so if you can go before the librarian or shoot it before combat it is possible to kill it before it can attack.

 

They can make a big difference in games and some lists do need psychic protection to work while others don't... Guard lack anti-psyker gear and they seem to do ok ^_^

[DarkGuard]

The idea of taking a Libby just to attempt to shut down your opponent is one that sounds like playing in regards to your opponent's plan, not your own. Of course, if you have a role for your Libby beyond psychic hood then that's not so bad, but I always prefer the idea of using a unit that plays to your strengths, rather than against your opponent's.

 

In my mind Libby's aren't all that amazing at blocking powers. Why? Because you need to roll higher than your opponent, normally when you're both Ld10. If you're opponent is a lower Ld then it's different, but nearly all psykers are Ld10 nowadays (although I suppose that changes with Grey Knights where most of them are Ld9). This means you're opponent has a better chance of getting the power off then you have blocking it, and so apart from cheapness, I don't feel you lose much by leaving your Libby at home. I know that in recent games my Libby has all his powers blocked and can't block my opponent's, so I find my Captain or Vulkan to be a better choice in the end, as these guys can't be blocked by a Hood and don't rely on their own Hood to be useful.

 

In the end it comes down to how you make your army, but I'm sure that you can get away with not using a Libby if you build it right.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Am I right in thinking then, that as psychic powers are operating outside the parameters of a regular weapon (as its a power that only certain units can make use of) its unlikely that we can do much to stop them from being used? (apart from killing the user) Asides enemies stopping the odd power or two, does this mean that they are generally reliable to use on enemies?

 

Also, out of interest, what are the most damaging psychic powers capable of in a battle realistically? Can they be game changing regularly, or do they tend to be a little hit and miss, or are they just plain reliable, but not amazing?

 

 

I'll admit this is all relative, sometimes psychic powers will work well in certain circumstances and poorly in others, but I want to build up a bit more knowledge on the world of the psychics in 40k, its always something that i've never quite come to grips with since it operates from only certain units.

[Brother Tual]

Librarians. I favour them over other IC's.

 

Reasons why -

 

1) Psychic hood - Whilst you are correct in stating that a hood is less likely to block a power than not, actually blocking a power is not its strength. Why? Most powers require some form of commitment in unit placement - mainly due to short range but this also comes from most powers being model/unit specific. By having a psychic hood on the table and in range you raise questions in your opponents mind about the potential consequence of being denied an important boost/movement etc and how this would expose such a unit/model as a result. A good player will be effected by this 'mind game' less than a newer player but it still will cause some level of second quessing and therefore potential mistakes/risk taking. I find it worth it for this reason alone.

 

2) Psychic Powers themselves - Marines (all types) are privy to a choice of a wide range of powers. The potential of this is that you can pick a librian and gear him up to perform 2 different roles. This is rather expensive to do through upgrading a captain or similar (although more effective). Nullzone, Gate, Force Dome, Wolf Jaws etc are force multipliers/additions and can be used effectively at a safe distance - in this manner a librarian can be used as a base line character supporting and protecting at range. Other IC's apart from a techmarine cannot do this well. Additionally a librarian can be geared to add to assault through combat specific powers. Whilst this may not provide the same output of a dedicated IC, a librarian cost no extra points and is more than a match for a standard infantry model. I think this versatility for low cost and no need for additional point sucking through upgrades gives them an edge. More so in low point games.

 

3) Potential - A base librarian with might or nullzone is able to provide a considerable 'spike' in army/unit output given the right conditions. I like this for 2 reasons, the first is that it requires you to play smart with your army. You cant just simply run in and roll dice. I am not a fan of point and click. You need to time your attack/power to get the most out of a librarian. Second is that this 'spike' is often game changing. Using Nullzone in the turn you drop low ap rounds (or even just bolter rounds into daemons) into an otherwise impossible unit (hammernators etc) or might to rip open a soul grinder (intiative 3 soul grinder or deff dread V ws5 by 4 attacks at str 6 + 2 d6 AP) or landraider is often an unexpected move. Although it is risky, catching your opponent off guard is often worth more value than the points lost should your librarian be lost to a quick but glorious death. I just find it more fun this way.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

See to me the librarian is perhaps the cheapest and most flexible choice for us marines, with reasonable profile at only 100 points, he also can mingle much better with a variety of squads rather than just CC squads (like most other choices are geared towards) so he seems pretty amazing even from afar!

 

Thing is, he also lacks some of the strength the others have at combat:

 

Chaplain comes with a built in power weapon and invulnerable save, but requires a squad

 

Captain has tough statline and gear, but requires a squad

 

Special Characters vary, but most require being in a squad to maximise their efficiency, as does the libby really, though his powers make him different to the others!

 

 

 

Since all characters seem to have similar requirements and the libby can fulfil similar roles AND double up with psychic powers, it almost seems as if hes THE choice of HQ....

[Fatuous]

For base cost the lib is a steal!!!! but as said above, if the plan is to just take one in an attempt to stop other peoples spells, then it's prob worth a rethink. I.E. have a plan or 2 for your libbi to do.

 

Either gating around a unit, or forcing rerolls to inv saves would be a good option.

 

Or taking a shooting power, and denigning those inv saves.....

 

They are pretty flexible, as u choose the spells, not pay for them :) So you pick come game time and not limited to buying the specific powers.

 

That said, they are cheap and you have to take a HQ, so even just filling ur HQ slot, and giving some level of psychic protection is still a good idea, but you could be taking a chaplain and massively increasing his units combat damage. So think carefully, and have a plan for different uses that your lib can do for you :pirate:

[Meatman]

Avenger is pretty lethal against everything bar terminators.

Gift of chaos is a pretty harsh one too. Calgar "God of war", now Calgar "Spawn of chaos". Shrike's been turned into a spawn twice so far for me. >.>

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Wouldn't etnernal warrior help stop gift of chaos (not sure, don't know the wording as I havent the codex!)

 

What are the MOST lethal psychic powers in the game, whether they be turning a unit into a death dealing machine, or casting something really nasty?

[DarkGuard]

I'm afraid EW won't help you against Gift of Chaos Grim, the wording is that the poor unfortunate model targeted is "removed". EW only protects against Instant Death, so Lysander and Calgar will still be taken out by it.

 

Of course, the odds of Gift of Chaos succeeding aren't massive, but it's still a power you don't want going off. As for Libby powers, I'm sure I've said this before but I favour Null Zone and Avenger. Null Zone is a fantastic power and great force multiplier, while Avenger packs a punch. I have heard good things about Might of the Ancients, as although the Libby isn't a combat character this does give you the equivalent of a relic blade for free provided you pass your psychic test.

 

In the end, Libby's need to fit into a battle plan the same as any other model. The one advantage they have is that with their cheap cost and multi-purpose role thanks to their powers, and the psychic protection they bring, they fit into lists a lot easier than a Captain or a Chaplain.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

but what about dangerous psychic powers outside of the regular codex marine list? Perhaps a look at the most dangerous 2 powers from all armies with psykers? And perhaps why they are so deadly, as i'm sure some will be shooting powers and some will be buffs....

[DarkGuard]

Well, consider a Daemon Prince with MoT, Wings, Winds of Chaos and Warptime. It can cast two powers a turn, and with wings can get into WoC range. WoC is a template weapon that wounds any model below it if you roll a 4+, and doesn't allow armour and obviously cover saves. Warptime will let the player re-roll any failed wounds, meaning that 75% of the models beneath that template should die, as opposed to 50%. Now with powers like that a psychic hood is handy, to either prevent it happening at all or at least reduce the amount of models slain.

 

That being said, there are other ways to stop it, like killing the DP, or staying in transports. Neither can be easy in certain circumstances, but a psychic hood is definitely not the only way to deal with psykers, it's just the most direct.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Perhaps it would be worthwhile making a Psychic powers 101 for people like me....:P

[DarkGuard]

Perhaps it would be worthwhile making a Psychic powers 101 for people like me....:P

 

Could be something to think about, although that would be massive, there's so many powers across so many armies.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Yup this is true, but i might make it an undertaking during the summer when im at more of a loose end. Though that'll be hard since I lack any knowledge on pretty much every single psychic power.........ah well. I can learn as I go!

[DarkGuard]

Yup this is true, but i might make it an undertaking during the summer when im at more of a loose end. Though that'll be hard since I lack any knowledge on pretty much every single psychic power.........ah well. I can learn as I go!

 

Let me know if you decide to, always happy to help with these articles :tu:

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Well I was thinking of a template for them as I will demonstrate with the libby:

 

Codex Space Marines:

 

 

Librarian:

 

The space marine psychic user, he has a good range of different powers, but his statline and equipment aren't particularly special. The librarian is quite flexible as a HQ and can assist and support a wide range of squads with his powers, rather than having to help a CC squad like most other HQs, this in itself makes him quite a useful tool in any players arsenal. Overall he is a very decent psyker and can be used a wide range of different situations, so keep this in mind.

 

Commonly appears as -

 

Barebones: At 100 points many people take the character for a cheap and flexible HQ that can adapt and support on the battlefield at a bargain price

 

Terminator Armour + Stormshield: A much more heavily armoured version makes the librarian more viable in fights and to move around without a vehicle, it gives him protection from some of his own powers as he now has an invulnerable save.

 

Epistolary: Allows the librarian to use 2 powers a turn, sometimes to devastating effect

 

 

Special Character varients:

 

Chief Librarian Tigurius: Has access to ALL powers and can use up to 3 a turn, making him a very powerful psyker. His points cost and 'weak' statline mean however that he pays for his powers by being quite vulnerable to being killed as he lacks strong defense.

 

 

Powers + which are commonly taken:

 

 

I think that something like that would help break down the info about the psychics, i'll get the ball rolling in the near future I think, of course any help and support would be appreciated! ;)

[DarkGuard]

Looks good to me. When you give it the go ahead let me know and I'll see if I can borrow a few Codices.

[BrotherWade]

I find Avenger to be quite useful against the local Blood Angel/Space Wolf players in my area. They keep a healthy 18 inches away from the rhino that the command squad with libby is in. It is the one major counter attack tool in my army against big scary CC squads. Granted, probably wasted on the new grey knights with there protection against psi powers.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I dunno if it could be 'wasted' perhaps just not as effective...

 

Avenger and Null Zone do seem to be everyones favourite choices (and its quite easy to see why) though gate of infinity seems to get some good use for transportless squads.

 

I'm surprised that quickening and might of the ancients aren't taken more, but then I think it goes to show that librarians are not really considered fighters!

 

 

Tigurius interests me, he can use 3 powers a turn and has gift of prescience and access to ALL powers. Which in itself is pretty amazing, but what 3 would you take and what to take him with tp protect his hefty investment?

 

I think i'd probably end up using avenger,null zone and force dome to give him some protection!

[DarkGuard]

Might of the Ancients not used? I'm currently considering using Might of the Ancients with a Libby in conjunction with a combat Command squad and a Captain. I effectively get another relic blade, and can deal with vehicles as well. However, I dare-say Avenger would still be better with regards to causing wounds before combat.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

With a FNP command squad and a captain I have no doubt that the librarian is going to be a fearsome powerhouse when using MotA, but on his lonesome in say a Vanguard (closest to command squad) he probably won't be quite as scary. I only say this because the libby seems really underwhelming from a defensive standpoint and is one of the things that puts me off about him, at least with a captain or chaplain you get something a bit tougher, but then you instantly realise that they live for CC which the libby doesnt have to....