There can be only one...

[Tybrus]

So.....Stormshields...Um......you can only get one if your the Leader of the Entire Chapter?

:)

 

 

 

So yeah...

[lordsloth]

So.....Stormshields...Um......you can only get one if your the Leader of the Entire Chapter?

:)

 

 

 

So yeah...

 

or if youre a lowly henchman!

[Gentlemanloser]

One of the things I really hoped for was GW wouldn't pull this kind of :) in the new Dex's.

 

Restricting Marines from staple wargear (not unit types) that all the other chapters have access to...

 

There's no logical reason (especially when TH/SS was a legal choice in the old Codex) the Grey Knights wouldn't use Storm Shields.

 

None at all...

[AoC]

Except 2++ in combat you meant ?

[antique_nova]

Except 2++ in combat you meant ?

Just put a rule that SS and NFW don't stack. You just get the ++3 invul and you can't have halberds and quite possibly falchions too.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

don't see the problem with having a 2++

it's called a staff.....

take a staff and model it with sword and storm shield.... same rules, just the model is different to the intension.

it's no different to taking mephiston in your storm poodles and calling him boris the psychic.

 

 

they should have allowed it.

 

im so mad that Draigo has a gay sword, a standard nemisis sword is far better then his tooth pick.

[Iron Lord]

Actually, no- a termie with a staff still has only a 5+ invulnerable save outside of close combat.

 

And if Draigo had a standard Nemesis sword- he would have had a 2+ invulnerable save in CC and a 3+ invulnerable save outside of CC.

[Andrew B]

While I agree that Storm Shields are nice to have around, I think they would have been too strong.

 

A basic GKT is stronger than a SM Terminator, his major weakness being things that ignore armor saves.

 

If you upgrade that save from 5++ to 3++ plus, even if it removes any bonus that the NFW would give is still to OP, you have a very strong tough model.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's too big a weakness.

 

Couple that with no Teleport Assault or Drop Pod for cheap and easy deployment, and our Termies are worse off then the normal ones. It was only with the change to Storm Shields that people started using Termies again, to give them the survivalbilty thier cost requires.

 

There's too much AP1/2 and Ignore Armour weaposn these days.

[Andrew B]

It's too big a weakness.

 

Couple that with no Teleport Assault or Drop Pod for cheap and easy deployment, and our Termies are worse off then the normal ones. It was only with the change to Storm Shields that people started using Termies again, to give them the survivalbilty thier cost requires.

 

There's too much AP1/2 and Ignore Armour weaposn these days.

 

I used a Terminator heavy list at the GK launch tournament last weekend.

 

I had 10 GKTs and 5 Paladins, they mostly stayed in cover(most of it reinforced by the Techmarine, so it was a 3+) with occasional Deep Striking.

 

Being a new player I lost most of my games, but still don't think it's unreasonable, you just need transport for the pure CC squads.

[Oiad]

This topic highlights one of my disappointments with the new rules - made even more annoying by the fact that we know Grey Knights are willing to use them - i.e. Draigo.

 

Fluffwise - They're 'knights' who even have access to their own forge - nothing sounds more ready for sword/spear 'n' shield combo in battle! Rules wise, elite armies with few models need to be able to take punishment as much as they can deal it. Sure their are a list of other rules that make this unfair, but nothing that couldn't have been ironed out to make them viable. Most of all though, I can't help but feel sorry for those GK players that already took TH/SS in the previous edition and were modded up to take advantage.

 

The delusional dreamer inside me hopes that the FAQ will make a surprising statement along the lines of 'big mistake, Terminators and Paladins can take storm-shields at ? points...' but let's be realistic, for the sake of supposed fairness it ain't gonna happen.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

No they can't take them as they would be broken on them. 3++ and striking at ini 6 str 5 with halberds? Just no.

[Gentlemanloser]

There will be a Grey Knight Apocalypse Daemonhammer Squad, armed with SS and NDH! :)

 

And a Teleport Attack one.

 

Apoc fixes all! ;)

[antique_nova]

No they can't take them as they would be broken on them. 3++ and striking at ini 6 str 5 with halberds? Just no.

that's impossible as storm shields are not wrist mounted, they require one hand to wield and no one fights with a halberd with just one hand.

[Valkyrion]

No they can't take them as they would be broken on them. 3++ and striking at ini 6 str 5 with halberds? Just no.

 

Nothing is broken as long as the points are paid for it or compromise is made

If it was, say, 'model may replace storm bolter with Storm shield at +15, incinerator at +X, psycannon at +X etc' then the model must give up its ranged weapon and will turn the unit into a dedicated melee unit, ala hammernators except with a different type of weapon.

You would then still have to buy the halberd or hammer in addition to it, making it somewhere in the region of 300 points for a unit of 5 with halberd and shield.

 

more than fair.

 

Halberd and shield would be fine - just like a relic blade and shield is fine in Codex SM.

[Decoy]

Never mind that SS options on GKT, which are already fairly powerful, would range up into the +40/50 points a SS. But if GW had put that in, everyone would be :) ing because they cost too much. I think there's a saying about cake and eating it that comes to mind; in this way, GW took the path of least potential abuse and just opted to deal with (read; ignore) the complaints.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

What, you mean there is a rule which forbids you from using a storm shield with a two-handed weapon?

 

Oh wait, there ain't. Watch the blood angels using glaive encarmine and storm shields.

[Valkyrion]

Its an easy fix just to replace the ranged weapon. Your unit then just becomes Deathwing Plus or Assault Terminator Plus.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

This thread amuses me.

 

Oh noes! There is a combo that is overpowered and I'm not allowed it! GW SUCKS!

 

NFS and SS would be seriously broken, there is a reason the 2++ staff is one per unit.

[Oiad]

Never mind that SS options on GKT, which are already fairly powerful, would range up into the +40/50 points a SS. But if GW had put that in, everyone would be :cuss ing because they cost too much. I think there's a saying about cake and eating it that comes to mind; in this way, GW took the path of least potential abuse and just opted to deal with (read; ignore) the complaints.

Meh, other armies deserve to be envious of us for once.

 

As for GW they're use to abuse and will ignore naysayers whatever direction it comes from. What they should be kicking themselves over is the potential to sell more, with the extra boxes of GKT being sold to accommodate the option. The sprues look adaptable enough for SS use after all.

[Andrew B]

This thread amuses me.

 

Oh noes! There is a combo that is overpowered and I'm not allowed it! GW SUCKS!

 

NFS and SS would be seriously broken, there is a reason the 2++ staff is one per unit.

 

I would personally like to have shields on my models for the cool looking minis. Plus it wouldn't really be that OP if it would cost a lot.

[Valerian]

Its an easy fix just to replace the ranged weapon. Your unit then just becomes Deathwing Plus or Assault Terminator Plus.

 

Yep, easy fix, just trade Storm Bolter for Storm Shield at +15 points (just like Wolf Guard). Sure, they could have a 2++ Save, but at 55 points each, with no dedicated transport, I think it would be all right.

 

Oh well.

 

Valerian

[Decoy]

Meh, other armies deserve to be envious of us for once. Besides, they'll be naysayers in most arguments and either way and GW will ignore them. From GWs point of view they would have made it better for themselves in a way they do care by providing that option - extra money is always a nice way to feed the beast. They loose out now on making more money with the extra boxes of GKT being sold to accommodate the option. The sprues look adaptable enough for SS use after all.

 

Other armies don't "Deserve" anything. Neither do you, really. All you "Deserve" is a Codex that is playable, and you've got just that. In regards to what GW cares about... By releasing new models, you're forced to buy them, with or without Storm Shields. People will not spontaneously choose to play Grey Knights just because of Storm Shields, meaning by denying the option entirely, they've saved money on manufacturing while ensuring a group of people will buy the miniatures regardless. Essentially, GW has minmaxed expenditure for profit, with little to no damage to the Gray Knight image while ensuring the people who play (or want to play) the Knights will be able to do so.

 

Although now I think we're getting off the beaten path a bit in terms of "why" there are minimal SS options.

[antique_nova]

What, you mean there is a rule which forbids you from using a storm shield with a two-handed weapon?

 

Oh wait, there ain't. Watch the blood angels using glaive encarmine and storm shields.

ow wait, you can't take another weapon when you have a storm shield if you already have a storm shield and weapon X. Only combat shields allow you to take two weapons or a two handed weapon.

thanks

antique_nova

[Venemox]

ow wait, you can't take another weapon when you have a storm shield if you already have a storm shield and weapon X. Only combat shields allow you to take two weapons or a two handed weapon.

thanks

antique_nova

 

 

C:SM FAQ

 

Last page, last question:

 

Q. The rules for both the relic blade and the storm shield

simply state that a model with one of these pieces of

wargear cannot have +1 Attack for an additional close

combat weapon. Is it therefore possible to equip a model

with both a storm shield and a relic blade? (p99, 101)

A. The rules for two-handed weapons in the rulebook and

the rules for storm shields and relic blades are not in

contradiction. So you can have both a storm shield and a

relic blade, which I think makes for rather cool models!

 

All storm shield says is you cannot have the +1 attack for additional CCW's. It doesn't say you can't have 2 weapons, nor use a 2 handed weapon, nor gain any other bonuses derived there-of.