Black templars and space wolves

[skoll]

or particularly do they hate us?

Black templars hate the mutant and the witch. We got wulfen and pyschers, so do they hate us?

 

 

on a side note I've come to notice space wolves are kinda the only uncaring marines, Grey knights will kill sister of battle to perform a blood ritual (tough they were perfectly untainted), dark angels will destroy a black templar barge just to keep the fallen a secret, black templars will hold even their own psychic recruits in chains. I havent read the codex of the other chapters (vanilla and BA) extensively , but i figure we can find some uncaring things there too.

 

so are we the only nice people in the 41st millennium ? are the only cool frat house in the imperium ?

[Blarmb]

Salamanders are pretty chill.

[MaveriK]

@skoll, for a second there I read your name as troll

[Niiai]

I do not know if the black templars hate SW? In theory they would hate a lott of different things. Space wolves are fierce killers, so that is cool I supose.

 

But yeah, SW can be idiots with the rest of them it it says in the SW codex that play this race if you want to play heroes. I would think imperial fists are not so bad eather, or crimson fists. Ultramarines are not so bad.

[Matt D]

Salamanders are pretty chill.

true dat'

 

i don't think all the others are jerks as much as it is seen as weeknes (IE slipping into chaos by little amounts) to bend and admit to grey areas in faith. i do think we are one of the few chapters who may hold up our primarch and "allfather" with the belief that they are human and fallible... I feel we see them less as gods and more as our venerated ancestors... but i could be totally wrong. :)

[Orphus]

Ummm, if you mean if Space Wolves are out of line in anything I don't think so. The Smurfs are fairly clean iirc. However, Space Wolves do things because it is the right and honourable thing to do, after all ;) . Space Wolves hate the Ecchelseary (-starty...starchy... :) it) and all that and hold a deep distrust in forces such as the SoB. They fear that the Space Wolves may be hiding latent mutation in the Wolfen so even tried to monitor Fenris. Talk about wringing the wolf's tail ;) . The thing is though, the Wolfen curse is hardly a secret compared to what is known, say, about the Dark Angels.

And yes it's not too hard to believe that the Wolves would dislike another chapter *cough*Dark Angels*cough* for a reason such as battlefield honour. But when it comes down to it in a battle, Astartes, to each other, are Astartes and it would have to be something serious to make them drop everything and have a biffo with each other until after the battle was over. But of course, when writing fluff fiction for example, you can be as creative as you want. There isn't any real solid reasons why this chapter wouldn't fight this over some reason.

 

Oh, and what do you mean by " cool frat house" ;) ?

[Lord Ragnarok]

I have edited out many things in the original post.

[dragon950]

BAs kill their own marines, but they do it to make sure that marines with the black rage don't start killing their own battle brothers. Not saying that that we can be mean, but once a battle brother turns wulfen he does have to be kept in check or we might have to kill him also to stop him.

 

We also hate most of the inquistion becuase of the things that they do to the people of the imperium that the SW have sworn to protect.

[Lord Ragnarok]

According to "Thunder from Fenris" we also kill our own. At least away from Fenris. In Thunder, one brother is accused of killing another after falling to the curse, with one wanting to end his "misery and restore his honor", while the other wants to see if there is some salvation.

[skoll]

what i said was, the space wolves are the only nice guys.

 

replace every other uncaring with something to mean that they are overall terrible people.

[Gree]

what i said was, the space wolves are the only nice guys.

 

*coughsalamandersough*

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Edited.

[Gree]

Pg. 17 of our codex..."You call yourselves true warriors, with your palaces and fountains, your medals and parades? I grasped my first axe when I was still in my birth-caul. I earned my first wolfskin when I was still a whelp. I've been fighting every single day of my life, son. Perhaps you're today's challenge, eh?" -Vorek Gnarlfist

 

Now i'm not saying the "palaces and fountains" part is directed at any other chapter of marines, but that quote right there is a very good representation of how a typical Space Wolf feels about life. Fenris is a very dangerous place and it breeds very hardy people who have to literally fight for survival every single day, whether it be against the elements, the wildlife, or each other. Since before the Heresy, the Vlka Fenryka have lived up to their original purpose. They were made to go in and get the job done no matter what. "Nice guys" make good champions of the common man, but that's just one way of looking at it.

 

The Wolves don't march to war to save John Doe from the clutches of chaos or Jane Smith from the xenos scum. They fight to protect the Imperium as a whole. They're not there to "spread the good word" and make the people cheer their names. They're there to solve the problem.

 

I'm not taking anything away from the "nice" heroic types. It's something that mankind needs to see from time to time. The Ultramarines or the Blood Angels can fulfill that role. Such is not the path of the Wolf.

 

And yet the Wolves of today have the image of that as nice heroic types. Grimnar is mentioned ad being praised and almost worshiped by the common fold on many worlds. The Wolves actually have one instance of a group of Grey Hunters staying behind solely to protect civillians against Tyranids. The Wolves or today are not the supremely practical and ruthless Wolves of the 31st millenium. we have multiple instances of them marching save John Doe from Chaos.

 

The Wolves hav't been the Emperor's terror weapon or executioners for a long while now. The role and character of the Wolves is different than it was in the Heresy.

[skoll]

what i said was, the space wolves are the only nice guys.

 

*coughsalamandersough*

Oh i take your word for it. Like i said i havent extensively read up on other chapters (so far i've read DA,BA,GK and BT codexs but almost naught on SM vanilla codex). That post was to address that the edits to my original post didnt convey what i originally intended to ask, however i understand that my language wasnt very lets say civilized, and needed some editing.

 

As for others, it just seemed to me that from reading several other codeces/codexes? the space wolves were the only one of the chapters (which i read about, i've been pointed to salamanders being chill dudes, get it cuz salamanders are cold blooded..wutever) that gave any care bout reg humans, the others seemed to just be aloof and viewed human lives as necessary sacrifice , with some even killing regular humans for no reason. Perhaps its because space wolves grew in an environment where life was cheap and fleeting ,so they understand the value of everyone , and they maintain their jovial brotherly traditions whilst other chapters , treat themselves like gods, and like dinning on fine wine and other such luxuries. (been told ultra marines do this havent read it myself)

 

@orphus oh its just a joke amongst my friends that space marine chapters are frat houses, which when you think about it they sort of are, weird grim dark space frat houses

[hendrik]

The Wolves actually have one instance of a group of Grey Hunters staying behind solely to protect civillians against Tyranids.

"putting the fear of fenris into those who considered fleeing."

just kidding, you've made quite some points about the space wolves being praised and loved by many. However i don't think all this loves comes from us being friendly, but more from us taking care over the common citizen. In general a space wolf( or any marine for that matter) is nice, why? they are all brutal killing machines, known to slay opponents by the dozens. of all the chapters there are even those who take this to the next level(SW, BA and usccesors etc) who simply are just jaw dropping savage in close combat (death company, bloodclaws,...)

 

Does this mean we can't be nice? hell no! every son of russ has sworn an oath to protect the imperium and for us space wolves (and some other chapters too) the imperium isn't just an awefull collection of planets but also it's citizens. and that's why we are so loved by many, not because we're nice guys giving cuddles to everyone, but because we're one of the few chapters who still care about the average imperial citizen and are willing to saccrifice ourselves for them!

[Gree]

Perhaps its because space wolves grew in an environment where life was cheap and fleeting ,so they understand the value of everyone , and they maintain their jovial brotherly traditions whilst other chapters , treat themselves like gods, and like dinning on fine wine and other such luxuries. (been told ultra marines do this havent read it myself)

 

The Ultramarines don't treat themselves like gods at all. Rather the opposite really. Read Fall of Damnos. They get along quite well with normal humans. Iulus Fennion even stops telling one of the local PDF to stop calling him an Angel and stop treating him like he's some sort of holy figure. Scipio Vorolanus also get's quite attached to some of the resitance fighters aiding his squad against the Necrons.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Edited.

[Gree]

Sure, we helped save Armageddon and a score of other worlds and got some praise for it. I don't believe that changed the way we're regarded very much.

 

What are you talking about? The Wolves are a First founding Chapter. Do you have any idea of the amount of political influence they wield? Especially in the Fenrisian sector where they have a sort of protectorate thing going on. One of the reasons why they can flout the Codex and the Inquisition is the sheer amount of influence they wield.

 

Grimnar is stated to be extremely popular across the Imperium. Grimnar was put in command of the 13th and nobody except a single chapter had an objection. (And that was because they blamed the loss of their Chapter Master on Grimnar, not out of any mistrust of the Wolves in general)

 

We've always been more distant toward humans than a lot of other chapters.

 

And then I'm told by another poster that the Wolves are closer to other humans than most chapter. You can't be both.

 

Hell, the Wolves are much closer to normal humans in their behavior than other chapters. Wolves are even implied to actually have sexual attraction to women, something others Marines don't really have.

 

Yes, we get praise and interact with humans outside of Fenris...and the "feral savage" comments are still flying around.

 

Then why is Grimnar explicitly stated to be extremely popular across the Imperium in his own unit entry?

 

You act like the Wolves are unpopular among the Imperium or even more alien that other chapters. Both of those are incorrect.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Gree has it right.

 

people love Logan Grimnar. people love the Space Wolves. sure we rustle some feathers here or there, but we have 10,000 years of loyalty to the Imperium to balance out what the close minded see as mindless savages.

 

Space Wolves are among the more decent Marines out there, but by no means the only ones. the salamanders and ultramarines are also very accepting of those they protect.

 

WLK

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Edited.

[Wysten]

I imagine Black Templar hate us because we are filthy mutents, same way that they hate the Blood Angels and any other mutent, whether we serve the imperium or not. While I imagine they would barely put up with us on request, as we are marines and serve the empire, the moment they think purging us is a justice to the imperium and they can legally attack us, they would. Thank Fenris they don't have that reason yet, though the war would probably never yeild a conclusive result, with our Fang and their many crusades.

 

 

As for marines not caring, they are programed more like machines then humans, they will fight and die for mankind, but only when there is an advantage to be gained on it, many chapters will fight almost to the last man, but the moment a result is inevitiable, they will destory everything, taint? They will purify everything in that sector to be safe, then some. The only difference between spaces wolves and Salamanders is that they would probably take more time in anaylsing and aiding to kill as few of the unaffected as possible and may fight longer, even if the fight is unwinnable and would cost more resources then would be effical. This approch is often inefficent to their cause, since it would cost more time and more marine life, but is likely to make them appear more good guy then the rest of the Marines.

 

Truth is, Grey Knights are good guys in a harsh univerce, as are many chapters. Just their decisions are efficent but often uneffical, but the real question is. Is it uneffical to kill a number, to save a even larger number?

[Gree]

Fenris isn't Macragge. Yes, Grimnar is popular across the Imperium for being a great warrior and leader...not for being "Mr. Nice Guy".

 

Actually he is. Why do you think he stood up for the civillians at Armageddon?

 

Dude, Space Wolves being nice guys has been pushed even by Phil Kelly himself, who says Wolves focus on doing the right thing in the introduction of the Second Wolf Omnibus.

 

Grimnar is implied to be popular because he's such a nice guy. The Imperium has plenty of mighty warriors and leaders, but none are adored to the point of almost religous worship.

 

As for their stance against the Codex and the Ecclesiarchy, even the High Lords of Terra aren't stupid enough to wipe out a chapter of marines.

 

Wrong. They have done so in the past and won't hesitate to do it if they thought there was a threat to them.

 

If the Wolves were so popular and liked, then why should the Ecclesiarchy come to their home planet with accusations of heresy?

 

Because the Ecclesiarcy investigates everything that does not conform to their beliefs. Any lesser chapter would have suffered far worse than the Wolves if not for their popularity. In fact the Ecclesiarchy is noted to have a rocky relationship with the Astartes beliefs despite their role as the God-Emperor's Angels of Death. The Chaplain article even notes that fighting sometimes breaks out.

 

IA Chaplains.

 

Some amongst the Ecclesiarchy see the Space Marines as dangerous, heretical deviants, and certainly Wars of Faith have been fought for far less. However, the Space Marines are unfailingly loyal to the Emperor, even if they do not recognise his divinity. At the same time, the Space Marines are to be revered for they share aspects of their genetic structure with the Emperor himself. An uneasy truce has developed between the Adeptus Astartes and the Ministorum, though occasional disputes shatter this wary peace.

 

The Wolves ARE one of the most human chapters. They act very human. There's a difference between that and being close to humans. They drink and celebrate and brawl in their mead halls. They don't walk through the villages of Fenris shaking the hands of citizens. Again, that's Macragge.

 

They do interact with humans on other worlds off of Fenris. Grimnar inspires hope in normal humans as well. Rangar get's along well with normal humans when he meets them. A bunch of Grey Hunters disobey orders just to protect some tactical insigificant civillians.

 

And no, Ultramarines don't walk thought the villages of Macragge shaking the hands of civillians. On average they spend most of their time killing things or out on battle. Pausinias doesn't shake people's hands like some teen idol sensation on Defenders of Ultramar.

 

I don't equate popularity with kindness or being likeable. If being known across the Imperium was enough, the Ecclesiarchy had no business coming to Fenris in the first place asking questions or making demands.

 

The Ecclesiarchy does what they please. As described before, there are factions in the organization that distrust the Astartes as a whole and consider them dangerous. You act like the Ecclesiarcy is actually unified.

 

And once again, a lesser chapter would have been excommunicated for that sort of thing.

 

Grimnar's political stance was made very clear after the administratum stepped in and executed "potentially tainted" citizens. He would have struck them down himself if Ulrik hadn't stopped him. That's not a man who plays politics. That's a man who detests bureaucracy.

 

No, Grimnar plays politics. You dont become the Chapter Master of a First Founding Chapter without knowing how to play politics. You don't lead a Chapter for five centuries without learning to play politics. Read Ragnar's Claw or Grey Hunter. I believe that Ragnar even comments on this.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I pretty much agree with everything Gree just said.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Edited.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I have read all of the novels. It just seems that I get a different picture in mind when it comes to Space Wolves in general.

 

I've read every novel as well, please explain your position.

 

Also, Topic starter, Are you asking if BT's hate SW's or are SW's "nice"?