Marshal Wilhelm Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Not to bash Hallbjorn, but what Gree said is 100% correct. Wolves and Salamanders love humanity and are nice to them. Ultramarines fight for humans and implement things to benefit them, that they might serve the Empire in a better way. Templars kill things for the Empire to survive. They don't have time for the people. They fight for humanity, not for people. It is coincidence that people make up humanity. Perhaps like a Dad who works heaps of hours to pay the mortgage and buy his children stuff. He doesn't have much quality time with them, but his life is for them. If you catch my drift? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 yeah im wondering if BT would have a particular hatred towards Space wolves seeing as their other one vow (hate the witch) doesnt even allow them to be fielded next to psykers and they have no psykers in their chapter other than astropaths. SO i figure they might hate space wolves and maybe even blood angels because of the suffer not the mutant to live (i know there is a mutant one , but i think the "suffer not to live" is about the unclean) , anyhow since both space wolves and BA have noticeable mutations on their geneseed. As for the wolves being "nice" thats just my general impression of them as compared to some of the other chapters, I was wondering if they were more like them who actually cared for the common humans , i've been told of salamanders and ultra marines so far. nice is perhaps not the term, mayhaps kinder to the general populace , more concern for them? I mean logan goes ahead to call the IG and regular humans that fought with them on Armageddon the "heroes of Armageddon" and pledges that they shall be avenged? that doesnt sound like something another chapter would do for a human, but I dunno Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 OK, so the objective is....Do Black Templars hate SW's or/and would BT's trus SW's in battle? Let's stay on that topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 yeah im wondering if BT would have a particular hatred towards Space wolves seeing as their other one vow (hate the witch) doesnt even allow them to be fielded next to psykers and they have no psykers in their chapter other than astropaths. SO i figure they might hate space wolves and maybe even blood angels because of the suffer not the mutant to live (i know there is a mutant one , but i think the "suffer not to live" is about the unclean) , anyhow since both space wolves and BA have noticeable mutations on their geneseed. As for the wolves being "nice" thats just my general impression of them as compared to some of the other chapters, I was wondering if they were more like them who actually cared for the common humans , i've been told of salamanders and ultra marines so far. nice is perhaps not the term, mayhaps kinder to the general populace , more concern for them? I mean logan goes ahead to call the IG and regular humans that fought with them on Armageddon the "heroes of Armageddon" and pledges that they shall be avenged? that doesnt sound like something another chapter would do for a human, but I dunno your over-thinking these things far too much little brother, enough that it starts to become complicated. How do BT get about across the galaxy? do they have Navigators? aren't Navigator's considered mutants? or by your thinking, are they an exception? or just a hypocrisy? Wolves are one of the very few chapters that still hold-onto their old ways of life. While other chapters abandon their past, therefore abandon and replace their values. Wolves have values, and know the difference between right and wrong. That's the major difference between Wolves and other chapters. We don't just simply do what we are told, we do what we believe is right, and have no problems questioning other people's actions or sanctions. I wouldn't say Wolves aren't nice or more humanitarian, although we seem to be. We are just as deadly, the only thing that separates us from the rest is, we know better to act and to not act. We play the role of savages, and barbarians, but deep down, we are just as noble who know the difference between what is right and what is wrong. While others outside the chapter may follow blindly like sheep... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 do the templars hate us, no (well wilhelm maybe after he finds out what we did with his ale :ph34r: ). i think between all astartes there still is some form of respect. do they despise us for using psychic powers, most likely. will the templars challenge a first founding chapter, not likely. as mentioned before being a first founding chapter means a lot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 @skoll... and to be honest, if BT have no love for psychic powers or psychers in general, then by that reason alone they should also HATE on the Emperor himself. Which I'm pretty sure they don't. You see what I mean by over-thinking things? it just over-complicates issue's that aren't. So no I wouldn't say BT hate SWs. I'm gonna dumb it down by saying: it's like having the Navy, Marines and Army working side by side. Do they hate each other? I doubt it, sure there are rivalries, maybe even friendly competition but in the end, we are all in the same side. Fighting the same enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 yeah im wondering if BT would have a particular hatred towards Space wolves seeing as their other one vow (hate the witch) doesnt even allow them to be fielded next to psykers and they have no psykers in their chapter other than astropaths. SO i figure they might hate space wolves and maybe even blood angels because of the suffer not the mutant to live (i know there is a mutant one , but i think the "suffer not to live" is about the unclean) , anyhow since both space wolves and BA have noticeable mutations on their geneseed. As for the wolves being "nice" thats just my general impression of them as compared to some of the other chapters, I was wondering if they were more like them who actually cared for the common humans , i've been told of salamanders and ultra marines so far. nice is perhaps not the term, mayhaps kinder to the general populace , more concern for them? I mean logan goes ahead to call the IG and regular humans that fought with them on Armageddon the "heroes of Armageddon" and pledges that they shall be avenged? that doesnt sound like something another chapter would do for a human, but I dunno your over-thinking these things far too much little brother, enough that it starts to become complicated. How do BT get about across the galaxy? do they have Navigators? aren't Navigator's considered mutants? or by your thinking, are they an exception? or just a hypocrisy? I gotta say I loved the rest of the post, however Im gonna answer this part. As per the lexicanum " By their doctrine, they abhor the traitor, the alien and the mutant. The latter trait means that Black Templars stand apart from most other chapters by eliminating Librarians from their organisation. The reason for this is that Librarians are psykers, and psykers are considered a mutant trait that must be kept apart from potential warp influence during battle. However, Black Templars do use non-combat psykers in other tasks that do not directly involve combat. These include Astropaths and Navigators" , and as per codex the only navigators they even consider are those sanctified by the inquisition , and then they must be repentant of the "curse" of being a psyker . thats why I wondered, then again the respect to mutual astartes makes sense I suppose. The reason they wouldnt hate the emperor is because he cannot be corrupted by the warp i suppose just like thats the reason they thrust grey knights (despite them being all psykers ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 "By their doctrine, they abhor the traitor, the alien and the mutant. The latter trait means that Black Templars stand apart from most other chapters by eliminating Librarians from their organisation. The reason for this is that Librarians are psykers, and psykers are considered a mutant trait that must be kept apart from potential warp influence during battle. However, Black Templars do use non-combat psykers in other tasks that do not directly involve combat. These include Astropaths and Navigators" , and as per codex the only navigators they even consider are those sanctified by the inquisition , and then they must be repentant of the "curse" of being a psyker . thats why I wondered, then again the respect to mutual astartes makes sense I suppose. The reason they wouldnt hate the emperor is because he cannot be corrupted by the warp i suppose just like thats the reason they thrust grey knights (despite them being all psykers ). again.. hypocrisy, and over-thinking. Your saying that it's okay for BT to have psykers outside of battle, but not during one. Yet their oath talks about the traitor, alien and mutant. It doesn't say any exemptions about the traitor outside of battle, the alien outside tweeting on his mobile, and the mutant walking his dog on his way to see professor x. It's like prejudice, and selective opinion! you say they trust Grey Knights despite them all being psykers.... yet you ask about SW's and if BT hating on them? is the glass half empty or half full cause I'm not drunk enough to make a point. And I don't even want to bring up the "he said she said" with your inquisition remark. It's like saying something similar to the loyal and innocent Japanese during WWII in the United States or even Canada or with my respects to both parties, dare I say the Germans and Jewish people during WWII. Again, like I said earlier OVER-THINKING complicates a game meant to be played for fun. There are far to many inconsistencies and hypocrisies in the known fluff and rules. Sometimes, the best answer is the common sense one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 do the templars hate us, no (well wilhelm maybe after he finds out what we did with his ale :) ). i think between all astartes there still is some form of respect. do they despise us for using psychic powers, most likely.will the templars challenge a first founding chapter, not likely. as mentioned before being a first founding chapter means a lot I can't see how being a First Founding chapter is seen as any higher than those also split from the Legion. Take the Imperial Fists Legion. Sigismund is Dorn's homeboy. Captain of the First company and leader of the Huscarl Templars. They play golf together and are generally like Batman and Robin. Except for wearing their undies on the outside. Sigismund is looked up by all the other Captains in the Legion. Once the Legion is split into Chapters, there is no way the remaining Imperial Fist Captains look down their noses at Sigismund, or Alexis Polux, master of the Crimson Fists. They wouldn't look down on their charges either, no more than they would have when they all wore the same livery. GW just hasn't bothered to flesh out the split-off Chapters because they are already flat out trying to keep the 'original' Chapters with enough fluff. +++ I don't think we have enough material to know what the Templars would do to draw any solid conclusions. Them hating witches yet having a staff of them to navigate the warp is barely touched in the fluff. They only consider GK witches pure [to fight alongside] yet Ward, in his wisdom, has decided that no-one really knows about the GK. So how could the Templars be comfortable fighting alongside them? We just don't know yet. +++ I love what you guys did with my ale. We Templars usually just have it straight, but that splash of lemonade you Wolves add makes it light and refreshing ;) . Great for in the summer. I don't know about the parasol though.... :P :drool: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 looks like Marshal's writing a novel... I'm gonna say this now, I never know what I'm talking about, truth be told.. I don't even know how to read or play 40K. Just saying! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 From the RPG, we do know that Templar's negative trait is Burn the Witch :drool: Level one: -20 to fellowship tests if taken on a Psykers abilities Level two: cohesion is at -1 Level three: must seek out and destroy enemy psykers first. Now these are negative traits, so some Templars will exhibit these, whilst others will just think they are dirty. Templars undergo weeklong fasts and vigils to tolerate working with witches librarians from lesser brother Chapters. :) They think of psykers as Pariahs. pariah |pəˈrīə| noun 1 an outcast : they were treated as social pariahs. 2 historical a member of a low caste or of no caste in southern India. ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from Tamil paṛaiyar, plural of paṛaiyan ‘(hereditary) drummer,’ from paṛai ‘a drum’ (pariahs not being allowed to join in with a religious procession). pariah noun they were treated as social pariahs outcast, persona non grata, black sheep, leper, undesirable, unperson, nonperson. +++ But it is unknown as to how this all really works. We need more material from GW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Blood Angels, Salamanders, Ultramarines and Space Wolves (alongside some companies in others Chapters, like Shrike's) are mostly seeking to be protectors of the Imperium and it's citizens. While Black Templars, and some other more "brutal" chapters seeks extermination of the enemy, instead of the protection. However, that does not means that ALL Space Wolves and Blood Angels are like that, neither means that "aloof" Space Marines fight seeking the extermination of the enemy instead of the protection of humans. Just check Pedro Kantor in the Space Marine battles, or even Chaplain Grimaldus. Or some of the Wolf lords that have no qualms about killing people that confront them. Oh, and I don't think Black Templars hate the Wolves, mostly because they do share a mistrusting of mutation and psykers, but Space Wolves seems to accept some part of those, while the Black Templars hate most of them, however they are not stupid, they know that they have to fight alonside psykers and mutants from time to time, like Librarians, and they understand the needs of war, just rather not use it as much as possible. Ran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshrug Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 My understanding is that Black Templars hate everything and are always angry, all the time. -Stormshrug Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 My understanding is that Black Templars hate everything and are always angry, all the time. -Stormshrug That makes me think of Grimgor Ironhide, special character from the Orc and Goblins Fantasy Army book, which has the special rule: "Hates everything!" ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 My understanding is that Black Templars hate everything and are always angry, all the time. -Stormshrug I thought those were the angry marines? Semper Iratus, always angry all the time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2715742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki-LaughingDeath Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think that this question has been asked in a void. One of the things to remember is the autonomy and solitude of any marine chapter. They are used to being on their own looking out for the empire and their territory to protect their future marines. The chapters tend to be very xenophobic to the point where they do not fully trust other chapters or humanity in general, but they do work for the glory of the empire of man. Do the Templars hate the Wolves.... no more than they would any other chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I love what you guys did with my ale. We Templars usually just have it straight, but that splash of lemonade you Wolves add makes it light and refreshing :tu: . Great for in the summer. I don't know about the parasol though.... :lol: :ph34r: Templars don't drink Ale. We enjoy hard liqours. Straight. From the bottle. My understanding is that Black Templars hate everything and are always angry, all the time. -Stormshrug This guys on to it. Would the Templars hate the Space Wolves? No. Its not worth our time. Just stay out of our way and let the real marines do the work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshrug Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 My understanding is that Black Templars hate everything and are always angry, all the time. -Stormshrug I thought those were the angry marines? Semper Iratus, always angry all the time Watch out for that Power Sack Full of Power Doorknobs. To say nothing of the dreaded Predator Angrinator -Stormshrug Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I love what you guys did with my ale. We Templars usually just have it straight, but that splash of lemonade you Wolves add makes it light and refreshing ;) . Great for in the summer. I don't know about the parasol though.... :P B) Templars don't drink Ale. We enjoy hard liqours. Straight. From the bottle. If You were implying solid rocket fuel, then the term "canister" was more appropriate. No wonder You guys are angry all the time ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If Templars are supposed to be Germanic... and the Germans beat the Irish in Beerfest... I think we all know who the SM Drinking Champs are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If Templars are supposed to be Germanic... and the Germans beat the Irish in Beerfest... I think we all know who the SM Drinking Champs are. RUSSians? B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Enjoy your Vodka. The drink of college girls everywhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Enjoy your Vodka. The drink of college girls everywhere. Please, don't get so upset :) Our bolter-babes will leave something for Your folks too. Maybe :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Clearly one has never awoken to find half a sorority passed out in your living room... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Clearly one has never awoken to find half a sorority passed out in your living room... It takes more than that to take out a proud son of Russ! And at least we stay awake during the process. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226632-black-templars-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2716326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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