Tournament winning lists..a little confused

[teemoki]

Hiya boys! Had plenty of games in for the past week or two since you guys helped me with my army. (I'm the girl that no one really thought would take 40k seriously so no one helped me at my LGS) You guys helped me though and I have to say it really helped a lot! I was very slow my first few games but picked it up quickly :D

 

So my list previously had a lot of AV13 predators and baal predators in it. It has been doing good for me (won 2 games so far!) but I am wondering...I looked up a lot of BA tournament winning army lists and a lot of them had a few things that confused me: (There are a lot of lists I saw like 10+ so this isn't just from a small pick of local type tournaments)

 

1) Almost none of the tournament winning BA lists I saw ran Baal Predators. Why not?

2) NONE of the tournament winning lists spammed a lot of AV13. Why would you not use 3x Baals 3x Preds? That's really great armor saturation... :|

3) A lot of older lists almost always had Mephiston...a lot of people are using Sanguinor now in 2011. Why? o_O

4) A lot of the lists looked very...the same. For example a majority of the lists had Meph or Sanguinor, LR with Assault Termies, 1 Tactical, 2-3 AssaultSquads in RBs with 1 Melta, and sometimes a Furioso, Storm Raven or 10 man JP assault squad. Can't Vanilla marines do this kind of thing easier, cheaper and better? They aren't even spamming RBs for fast so...I don't get this?

5) The top 3 BA lists I was told here and almost in all consensus everywhere I read is RB spam, AV13 Pred spam or DoA. None of which I saw in any of the tournament lists anywhere...'Ard boys, Adepticon etc. Whats going on? Aren't those types of lists playing to BA's best strengths? Why are people playing lists more like the one in my question 4?

6) Again...why would you not run 3x Baals and 3x Preds? AV13 fast walls, with great firepower and fairly cheap prices...they seem too good for me to pass up and like an auto-include in any competitive list...Why? :|

 

As you guys can tell I still have a lot to learn. But as you guys said before I can ask as many questions as I like! :P Well I'll check this tomorrow, up too late already...got to goto bed. School tomorrow :D

[JamesI]

Well, sometimes its money. 6 predators is expensive to buy.

 

It could also be style of play. I personally only own 2 Predators (with the ability to turn one of my other vehicles into a Pred if I felt like it), basically because mech isn't a style I prefer. And when I do go Mech, I prefer Vindicators.

 

I watched someone play at Adepticon with a Land Raider with assault terminators, Corbulo, Mephiston, another Librarian (I think) 1 large jumpy assault squad and 1-2 assault squads in Razors. It was really effective (making the second day at the Adepticon Championships).

[Brother Nathan]

Yup kits are expensive. i dont own many veichles, but do run most of them. And i seriously cant say anything is a really bad option in our dex. the only things i wouldnt think about are the captain and the techmarine...

As for armoured wallls, there is a list that out preforms us in that area, mechanisied guard... sure they may be slower, and less accurate, but they are cheaper and tougher(i thinkfront armour = 14?) Also you do have the whole 5th ed set up. tanks are much improved. anti tank is more important as a result. so you have the problem of ' tanks are king, long live tanks, melta is king, long live melta'

now as for the prolems with baals, they are ap4. dont get me wrong, i loves my baals. out flanking behind enemy armour with them is fun. but other than the occasional rending shot and lucky failed save they dont kill many meqs( marine equivilents) and with cover saves involves for others they can do very little sometimes. ive seen mine square down on a single guardsman running for an objective and open fire with all guns and fail to heat his hair...

at the same time they can kill 10 marines in one volley. take out a landraider(cant scratch a monolith though so beware...) and down squadrons of veichles with the fact that teven the sponsons can hurt light veichles...

seriously if you like them then run them. just because some tourney players run certain list dosent mean you should. we have a very versitile dex and i dont think it should be run with one army list in mind like how competitive chaos is (plague marines, bezerkers, lash princes and vindicators/oblits) to my mind our dex has good options and versitility and should be used. if you dont like how others run their lists simply dont copy them... ;)

ps vindicators can also work well with your list if you want to try them too.... they tag team well with baals... ;)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There are lots of good units to choose from in the codex so I think there is more than one way to win consistently with BA.

 

G :wacko:

[Taz]

I can't say for sure why Mephiston's seeing such a decline but it may have something to do with the recently released Grey Knight codex, which is full of ways to ruin a Librarian's day, not to mention power weapon-heavy units, and nobody, much less a tournament regular enjoys watching their 250 point walking slaughterhouse get negated and whiffed early game. Sanguinor has a 3+ invuln, a jump pack that can't be canceled by a psychic hood, isn't affected by their Storm Raven missiles or psyk-out grenades, is a beast in CC even before he gets into combat with the enemy HQ you chose at the start of the game for him to reroll both hits and wounds on from his 6 attacks on the charge, AND buffs a random one of your sergeants with +1 WS, wound, initiative and attack for the whole game. Oh, and did I mention everyone within 6" of him gets another +1 attack to boot? Sounds to me like Sanguinor would be a pretty good go-to guy for taking on those smug, gunmetal Daemon-hunting know-it-alls. :wacko: Even in an all-comers list he's a high-power HQ that gives significant buffs to your army. That said, Nathan is right in that we have a highly versatile codex with tons of great units and different ways to use them. Just because something isn't popular in tournament settings doesn't mean it's not good or fun to play. It's people who spend the time to come up with new lists and strategies apart from the tried and tested ones that come up with the tournament lists of tomorrow. Who knows? Maybe people will become too used to the lists you described and won't be expecting you to use something other than the run of the mill list like the one you mentioned, or RB spam. ;)

[1Drop]

This is all interesting, by the questions you have asked I have learned a bit too from the answers from the vets on here :P

 

And vindies do work amazing with baals, 2 or three of each although I would always have 2 baals and a squad of 3 attack bikes if points permit it!

[SincaiN]

I usually play at least 1500pts and there are always 2 Baals in my List.. They are a good cheap do it all tank. And like what was said above I run 1 or 2 Vindi's with them in the bigger games, a great one two punch combo. But I think it comes down to your own style of play, using what you are comfortable with will always be the best option. I'm a Mech fan myself but I'm also a Jump Pack fan so I use a lot of tanks but not many transports. Usually just the 1 RB for the combat squaded Tac to grab/hold objectives.

 

I'd say DS comes into play mostly on the lists people play. If you are going to DS a lot of units it can be hard for your static units to keep up. I also don't DS much as I prefer to know exactly what I have and when, I don't like to play the chances as much. But some people like the DS style and run that very well.

[Redfinger]

Lists are not going to win you games, a sound understanding of the rules and tactics is what will win them.

 

Ashton

[tehreverend]

Lists are not going to win you games, a sound understanding of the rules and tactics is what will win them.

 

Ashton

 

Actually, you need understanding and a good list. Both are important parts of the tactical process. While it is true that a good player with a poor list will probably do better than than a poor player with a good list, neither will do as well as a good player with a good list.

[Corby]

There are lots of good units to choose from in the codex so I think there is more than one way to win consistently with BA.

 

G ;)

 

 

This is an excellent point. The awesome thing about all the new codexs is , that they no longer have a set "build" that makes them competitive. Theres plenty of room for thinking outside the box and bizzare combinations of units that still remain effective.

[teemoki]

@JamesI: Thanks for the input. How did the list play at Adepticon? Just curious what it's play style is like :) Also to answer your first question sorta thing I don't really have any budget. I know it seems like I'm spoiled but I'm working too and you make a lot of $ as a bartender ;)

 

@Brother Nathan: Love your name! Brother Nathan sounds so Blood Angely :) Anyways, thanks for the advice. Like I said above I am in college right now but I work as a bartender so I don't really have any other expenses. (Rents pay for lodging and allowance for food) so I kind have my $ to do whateva :P So what I got from your helpful post is that we are so versatile minus 1 or 2 units that we can really work with whatever and do well? How would you go about making a balance list then that can "do well" vs everyone?

 

@Black Orange: That's good to know. So pretty much the BA codex (unlike others) doesn't need a specific route to take huh? We can do whatever pretty much and be succesfull?

 

@Taz: That makes sense. I forgot about the Sanguinors other special rules! :P Also I agree with a list that you play best is a list you play often. I need to just make up my mind...

 

@1Drop: I know right! The guys here are amazing! So helpful and quick to respond :D

 

@SinCain: Ya...thats me too. I love the AV13 preds all around but then I also want 10x man Assault Squads with 2 Meltas a PF and Priest with them. However I'm not sure how to pack them all together into 1850 lol... :|

 

@tehreverend: Agreed!

 

@Corby: Thanks for following up with what he said. Makes me feel more comfortable trying to make my own list and stay competitive than trying to look towards what the tournament lists are doing.

 

 

 

 

With all that said... :) How would you guys go about making an ALL COMERS list with Sanguinor, 4-6x AV13 preds (Baals and regular) and 1-2 squads of 10 man assault squads with 2 meltas,1 power first and 1 priest with a jump pack? What do you guys think is the weakness of a list like that? So I know what else to fill up my army with to make up for the weakness. For example if you think its a glaring weakness of anti-AV14 maybe an honour guard squad of meltas as a suggestion? I don't know...what do you guys think? Good base core? What to compliment it with? Vindicators maybe?

 

Oh on another note what is this Baal Pred + Vindicator 1,2 combo people are talking about?

 

Thanks you guys for the help so far! ;)

[Taz]

I think if you have some Lascannons scattered amongst your standard preds AV14 wouldn't cause you much trouble. Maybe one with LC on the turret and another with LC sponsons?

 

I think a bigger weakness for this army would be hordes. From what I'm looking at I'm seeing a distinct lack of template weapons. So your army can bring heavy strength attacks but against something like nids or orks there's the distinct chance of simply getting swamped. Consider adding flamers, maybe even a flamestorm Baal pred. Also a Devastator squad with some missile launchers or plasma cannons may give you a good firebase, the plasmas are great against hordes and the missile launchers can do something similar OR hunt vehicles/heavy infantry with krak missiles, and as mentioned before Vindicators rock FACE for that sort of thing.

 

Also, adding a melta honor guard to Sanguinor probably isn't going to be getting the most from your HQ. Sanguinor is a CC unit through and through and adding meltas to him and sending him after tanks isn't the best use of him. I'd suggest an honor guard tooled up for close combat, with a chapter banner, Blood Champion and maybe even another PF. If you DID like the idea of a melta HG enough to use it opt for Dante. He has an Infernus pistol, which bumps up your melta shots to 5, has a flippin' sweet death mast that gimps an enemy HQ at the start of the game and basically does the OPPOSITE of what Sanguinor does to your sergeants. Plus his Precision Strike special rule will allow you to put him directly up the butt of your opponent's favorite vehicle and turn it to slag, while his Hit and Run can make sure all your HG doesn't get mauled too badly in CC. Plus he's 50 points less than Sanguinor which means some nifty extra kit for your army OR another Priest which any assault squads you add will thank you for.

 

Also Chaplains are fun, even without DC, tho those are fun, too.

 

I envy you, with your bartender job and disposable income. ;P

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Lists are not going to win you games, a sound understanding of the rules and tactics is what will win them.

 

Ashton

 

Well a bad list will surely lose more often than a solid list. :)

 

 

At the OP -

 

If you compare our codex with SW you will see that we have many of the same units as vanilla SM while SW do not. Many of our units are also enhanced such as the Lucifer patterned chassis for our tanks. We have some of the best special characters as well as some of the best assault units. These are all WIN in my mind. On top of that we have the Stormraven as well... dont be fooled by those that say it is crap - it is an excellent tank and superior to the landraider in my mind. Our codex gives you the ability to go beyond the conventional envelope. Of course we dont have Captains with artificer armor and relic blades but who cares?

 

G :lol:

[Leonaides]

Also, adding a melta honor guard to Sanguinor probably isn't going to be getting the most from your HQ. Sanguinor is a CC unit through and through and adding meltas to him and sending him after tanks isn't the best use of him. I'd suggest an honor guard tooled up for close combat, with a chapter banner, Blood Champion and maybe even another PF. If you DID like the idea of a melta HG enough to use it opt for Dante. He has an Infernus pistol, which bumps up your melta shots to 5, has a flippin' sweet death mast that gimps an enemy HQ at the start of the game and basically does the OPPOSITE of what Sanguinor does to your sergeants. Plus his Precision Strike special rule will allow you to put him directly up the butt of your opponent's favorite vehicle and turn it to slag, while his Hit and Run can make sure all your HG doesn't get mauled too badly in CC. Plus he's 50 points less than Sanguinor which means some nifty extra kit for your army OR another Priest which any assault squads you add will thank you for.

Note - Sanguinor is not an IC, so you can have whatever you want in an honour guard bought thru him - shooty works fine. The only problem with taking him but only a couple of squads is that you dont make the most of his extra attack rule - getting it on 1 squad is good, but if you have to split off one of your squads for any reason (flanking, protecting your tanks from counterattack or whatever) then you've lost 10 attacks, and paid twice as many points for the 10 bonus attacks you do get.

 

One of the nice things about a Vindi and a couple of Baals (or the other way around) is you can lob a demolisher shell downrange at a nice tank, or a big mass of infantry (wahtever is a more pressing priority to kill), and then mop up any stragglers with the Baals. If shooting at infantry, and your shot actually scatters onto another unit, then your Baals can either finish off the unit you hit or still target the orignial unit, making sure both units are weaker.

[Black Memories]

The issue I've noticed in tournament play with BA players running heavily mechanized lists is that they totally lack a backbone. They're like an armored shell with nothing inside, and it's a lightly armored shell at that. While the preds have AV13 front, the sides are just 11, and easy for any army with reasonable mobility to get to. The fact that its so expensive point-wise to run these lists with fast vehicles means your troops often dont have standing power once their transport is gone. Also dakka preds really just don't scare me, so I have no issue prioritizing the razorbacks first. Additionally the amount of fast/drop-down melta weaponry available to a lot of armies means that your tanks aren't nearly as survivable in some situations, and against some armies, as assault squad guys with feel no pain and some cover might be (Exceptions apply).

 

The other thing I'm seeing on this is while people tend to advocate a DoA build or a razor/av 13 build, many successful tournament lists seem to be hybrid builds, which makes sense given the setting. From personal experience I've always found running a good mix of vehicles, jump troops, guns, and assault really allow me the ability to change and adapt to whatever my opponent throws at me mid-game. Armies like razorspam and some DoA armies just don't have the same adaptability as a a balanced list (though I've personally run some very adaptable DoA lists). Razor/armor spam is very limited for BA in that while you will mercilessly pound certain army types, there are many army types that will cause a significant amount of problems for you.

 

As others have said I think the "trick" to tournament lists is run something you're comfortable using and know how to win with. While most people would consider assault terminators more competitive than the death company, I've found in the right setting the death company can be extremely effective in competitive play, and very hard to get rid of if you neutralize some of the ranged threats. That, however, is not to say that assault terminators are not extremely effective. Point being, as others stated, the Blood Angels have the good fortunes of having a codex that gives you more than one way to skin a cat.

 

I've talked with several other BA players since the codex came out. The one thing they all said or agreed with was your army itself must have some kind of cohesion. Blood Angels lists are very synergy based, so taking the odd model here or there is not a great idea. If your army works with all its components in their proper fashion, then regardless of the "build" you're running, you will have a good chance of winning your games.

[Black Memories]

With all that said... ;) How would you guys go about making an ALL COMERS list with Sanguinor, 4-6x AV13 preds (Baals and regular) and 1-2 squads of 10 man assault squads with 2 meltas,1 power first and 1 priest with a jump pack? What do you guys think is the weakness of a list like that? So I know what else to fill up my army with to make up for the weakness. For example if you think its a glaring weakness of anti-AV14 maybe an honor guard squad of meltas as a suggestion? I don't know...what do you guys think? Good base core? What to compliment it with? Vindicators maybe?

 

Oh on another note what is this Baal Pred + Vindicator 1,2 combo people are talking about?

 

Thanks you guys for the help so far! ;)

 

If you run the two squads, sang, the priest, and 2 baals and 2 reg preds, that's actually a reasonable foundation for a list. and comes to about 1400~ points. If you added say...2 melta attack bikes and maybe another troop choice, perhaps in a razorback, you now have a very versatile, fast army with a great amount of mobile firepower. You could also throw in a vindicator with this setup and have some pretty heinous firepower. As mentioned above the list would be weak to being swarmed, but you'd have a significant amount of firepower to deal with it. Keep in mind with jump infantry you can hold them in reserve or two and place them out of the way to soften the enemy with your guns before you actually need them to objective steal.

 

If you wanted a more assault oriented twist, I'd run the 2 baals, 2 preds, 2 assault squads and priest, grab a furioso dread and switch sang to mephiston and now you've got a very fast assaulting and shooting army.

 

There's lots of options you can do with a base like that with a blood angels army, just experiment and have fun what works for you. Blood Angel lists have a lot of variety.

[Something Wycked]

With all that said... ;) How would you guys go about making an ALL COMERS list with Sanguinor, 4-6x AV13 preds (Baals and regular) and 1-2 squads of 10 man assault squads with 2 meltas,1 power first and 1 priest with a jump pack? What do you guys think is the weakness of a list like that? So I know what else to fill up my army with to make up for the weakness. For example if you think its a glaring weakness of anti-AV14 maybe an honour guard squad of meltas as a suggestion? I don't know...what do you guys think? Good base core? What to compliment it with? Vindicators maybe?

 

Oh on another note what is this Baal Pred + Vindicator 1,2 combo people are talking about?

 

Thanks you guys for the help so far! ;)

There are two weaknesses of that list: the first is against armies that can outshoot you. Tau, IG, Marines who missile launcher/bike/melta spam, Eldar/Dark Eldar with their bright/dark lances. These are problems since vehicles only have one "wound" - all it takes is a roll of a 4, 5, or 6 (using a melta or other AP1 weapon) to kill a vehicle.

 

The second weakness is against hordes. Your assault squads will certainly do a number of casualties to a horde of units, but they'll still have plenty left where those came from. Templates are your friend in this case.

 

I know you said you like Predators a lot, but the reason you cited is the AV 13. Vindicators also have AV 13, and are still fast so you can zoom them around with your Baals. But I'm biased towards Vindicators and against Preds ;)

 

To make a list with these parts, I'd recommend leaving the sponsons off of the Baals to save points. I don't have the codex with me atm (at work ;) ) so I can't cobble the points together, but basic elements form a solid list. 2 Vindicators, 2 Baal Preds, Sanguinor, Priest, 2 Assault Squads, and if you have the points I'd recommend a Librarian for the utility- you can shut down your opponent's psykers and also bring some additional buffs to your army as well. If there are enough points, I wouldn't argue with not taking a Librarian and instead adding an additional Assault Squad.

 

All of those units have good synergy- the vehicles can move just as fast as the infantry and still fire, or they can move flat out if they need to reposition quickly and likewise the infantry can keep up with the vehicles. The Priest and Sanguinor and Librarian all offer AoE benefits and so can all improve a handful of entire squads.

 

You have a very solid core of units for your army; there's not much (if anything) that you need to change.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Lists are not going to win you games, a sound understanding of the rules and tactics is what will win them.

 

Ashton

 

Truest statement.

 

I think also there is a big misconception that the so-called 'easy button' lists that people copy/build for tournaments, are also winning these tournaments... most of the time they are not.

[SamaNagol]

The most pertinent post I have read in this topic is the man who said 'I have no problem prioritizing targets and picking off the Razorbacks'. This is the flaw of Predator lists. Predators are not scary. And the one thing even less scary than Predators are 6 man RAS squads which have to walk on foot.

 

Land Raiders are scary, especially with DC or Terminators in. Vindicators are scary. StormRavens are scary. Dreadnoughts. These all will demand attention.

 

1750 being the new UK tournament standard makes things interesting because whilst the convention would be 'I need more Troops', the reality is 'I can take bigger things to distract away from my Troops'.

 

My 1750 list currently runs as

 

Mephiston

 

Furioso Dread w Talons & Extra Armour

 

5 DC in a FlamerBack w Hammer n PW

6 RAS w LClaw and Meltagun in a TLAC Razorback w Extra Armour

6 RAS w LClaw and Meltagun in a TLAC Razorback w Extra Armour

6 RAS w LClaw and Meltagun in a TLAC Razorback w Extra Armour

 

Vindicator w Extra Armour

Vindicator w Extra Armour

 

2 Melta Attack Bikes

2 Melta Attack Bikes

 

The Razorbacks are generally the last thing that get shot. Which works for me.

 

I can't speak highly enough of Vindicators with Extra Armour. They are fast so can always move 12 and fire their one gun unless Stunned. They provide great mobile cover and the other units can help ensure you don't get outflanked by Melta teams. Every vehicle in my army moves Fast and still fires at full effect so attacking them in Close Combat and needing 6s to hit makes even Thunder Hammers incredibly ineffectual.

 

But you can run a wide variety of units out of the BA dex, and as long as you form good synergy in your tactics you can beat most enemies.

[Black Memories]

The most pertinent post I have read in this topic is the man who said 'I have no problem prioritizing targets and picking off the Razorbacks'. This is the flaw of Predator lists. Predators are not scary. And the one thing even less scary than Predators are 6 man RAS squads which have to walk on foot.

 

Land Raiders are scary, especially with DC or Terminators in. Vindicators are scary. StormRavens are scary. Dreadnoughts. These all will demand attention.

 

1750 being the new UK tournament standard makes things interesting because whilst the convention would be 'I need more Troops', the reality is 'I can take bigger things to distract away from my Troops'.

 

But you can run a wide variety of units out of the BA dex, and as long as you form good synergy in your tactics you can beat most enemies.

 

By far the best points to be made about competitive lists, and how you should design your list concepts. Identify why your list is weak in an area, play around it or build around it. Also I like the part about having scary stuff distract away from troops. I've found that after 1500 points I can take about 15 scoring models (for me its usually a jp assault squad and a razor squad) and force my opponents to fire at whatever large object of doom i have coming at them. This tactic works startlingly well. I've found a complimentary tactic is to do what a lot of Blood Angels players who tend to razorspam avoid doing, which is rely on your troops to smash some people up. Don't forget that BA assault squads with a sang priest are some of the best troops in the game, accurate deep strike really menaces armies that want to deploy a lot of armor as well, you're also guaranteed a glance with melta guns, and glances are all you need to slow mechanized forces.

 

Basically what I'm supporting is that there is no alpha list for Blood Angels, and every list you make will have some kind of flaw. The potential flaw in sam's list is that his troops are not going to knock anyone's teeth out and at some point that may be just what's required of them, but there's even ways around that (group assaulting). and he's compensated for that they're being supported by some very good combat troops and distractions.

 

One more thing, keep in mind that attack bikes with meltas are not to be over looked. They are easily the most under-rated models available in a Blood Angel's army, in my opinion.

[spec.ops]

Q1: Almost none of the tournament winning BA lists I saw ran Baal Predators. Why not?

 

A1: BA’s main strength are bodies, not armor. Reason, everyone needs troops for scoring but no one’s troops can do what we do: accurate Deep Striking, 18” movement, +1 on assaults, Feel No Pain on a T4/Sv3 chaises, and multiples of special weapon especially meltas (anti-vehicle). Thus, the more vehicles you take the more you take away from BA’s main strength – Bodies. Plus, it is easier to down a vehicle than 11 SM's with FNP.

 

Priest: JP

RAS: PF/ TH + 2x Melta

 

This is one of the main skeleton outlines for a successful list capitalizing on BA’s strength. From this point you can upgrade them or keep them as is with few select support elements.

 

Q2: NONE of the tournament winning lists spammed a lot of AV13. Why would you not use 3x Baals 3x Preds? That's really great armor saturation... :|

 

A2: See A1

 

Q3: A lot of older lists almost always had Mephiston...a lot of people are using Sanguinor now in 2011. Why? o_O

 

A3: It depends on the list, but imo Special Characters only in non-competitive lists, but they sure are fun! =]

 

Q4: A lot of the lists looked very...the same. For example a majority of the lists had Meph or Sanguinor, LR with Assault Termies, 1 Tactical, 2-3 Assault Squads in RBs with 1 Melta, and sometimes a Furioso, Storm Raven or 10 man JP assault squad. Can't Vanilla marines do this kind of thing easier, cheaper and better? They aren't even spamming RBs for fast so...I don't get this?

 

A4: You are right to question these “competitive” lists. In a competitive BA list, who the heck takes Tac’s? 3xRB’s not 6xRB’s…WTH? Everything else mentioned is mid tier, but there are better choices for support in a competitive list. As for the lists you are viewing, well I hardly ever see any truly competitive lists floating about. Reason, the few people who know how to build lists don’t post because they don’t need too. =P If they do post lists it’s just for show. For the majority of the lists you see they are just looking for advice – rightfully so! Lastly, the lists you are referring to might be built around posted missions for a select tourny or teched for anti-meta at the time.

 

Q5: The top 3 BA lists I was told here and almost in all consensus everywhere I read is RB spam, AV13 Pred spam or DoA. None of which I saw in any of the tournament lists anywhere...'Ard boys, Adepticon etc. Whats going on? Aren't those types of lists playing to BA's best strengths? Why are people playing lists more like the one in my question 4?

 

A5: good question...vehicles (Razors) are the meta and BA loves DOA lists. I remember hearing Ardz was punishing anyone who took units/ models that moved more than 12" so that hurts anything BA. lol

 

Q6: Again...why would you not run 3x Baals and 3x Preds? AV13 fast walls, with great firepower and fairly cheap prices...they seem too good for me to pass up and like an auto-include in any competitive list...Why? :|

 

A6: I would like to refer to A1, but BA AV’s are unique to BA and are competitive in their own right. Almost everything in the BA codex is fan-freaken-tastic compared other dex’s. I guess I could sum this up by saying that BA’s main strength is bodies, but we also excel at everything else. =P

 

Hope this it helped.

[teemoki]

Awesome! Thanks for the help guys! So more bodies is what we do best huh... Hmm... that kind of goes against what I was thinking of doing after you guys suggested to take whatever I wanted and play with it till I got good with it since our codex is so versatile...

 

Was looking at the codex a little while ago and :3

 

12 Dreadnaughts? Is possible right? LOL How competitive would that be haha. I wonder if people would expect that even o_o Sounds scary to me...

[SevenExxes]

Wouldn't that include 3 DC dreadnouts? To have 3 DC 'nougts you would need 15 regular DC models and that would take up a troops slot so it's really 11 Dreadnoughts

[teemoki]

Ya never mind lol... was just thinking about it for dumb reasons. I will never build that many drop pods. Never...

 

What are your guys thoughts on the Stormraven? I'm thinking of using them as plain gunships. (Not carrying anything at all) Spamming a high rate of fire or flamers on my other vehicles. That sounds like it would synergize well together. Stormravens can pop anything they want and templates and TLACs will come to clean up.

 

Also it feels like it will be easy to pop. For it's points I don't want to invest too much into it since it's a fairly easy to pop AV. (12)

[Taz]

While possible, not using them as transports again feels like not getting the most out of your models, especially since they're flying transports that can carry dreadnaughts. If you're going to get Stormravens at least put a dread with some blood talons in the backseat to throw at opponent's troop squads.