Tournament winning lists..a little confused

[Black Memories]

Black Memories - yes you can usually get a Turn 3 charge with DoA, but there are 2 problems with that, if you are taking this squad in order to get into CC 1) you're a turn later than a squad starting on the board and 2 ) you still run the risk of a DS mishap - and the best case scenario if that happens is you are delayed by a turn, leading to a turn 4 charge. How many times do people supporting DoA as an assault troop entry mechanism think to remind their readers about this - it wont make a difference to the ones who know what they're doing, but the ones who really need the advice and are just starting the game need all the mental shortcuts /pros and cons pointed out to them so they learn more and learn better. 3 assault marines will probably loose a marine or 2 to a full 10-man IG squad, leaving you with a single guy who will bounce off the next infantry unit it goes near. It only takes a couple of lucky dice rolls with the first IG squad for your 3 marines to die in that first combat. I dont generally consider any unit reduced to 3 men as combat effective - its just become a suicide/hail mary squad that i dont expect to survive a H-to-H round (if it does, great, but I dont plan on it).

 

I didnt want to go into multiple units since to keep it simple, though I agree using other vehicles as mobile cover works well for deployed JP troops (indeed, thats how I usually use them).

 

Whenever I actually drop my JP guys down via deep strike, I actually always use them as a shooting unit first. The way my list plays out is the assault marines are actually a "wave 2" if you will, so if they arrive a turn or two late it isn't that big of a deal. I don't consider it a main form of combat entry though, which i may not have made clear. I just think it makes the unit slightly more dual purpose. The initial purpose is tank hunting and then after that's done I use them to objective steal.

 

The reason I went ahead and said combine the units is since everything has a strength and weakness and most agree that a Blood Angels list is very synergy dependent I went ahead and included that as a reason that Jump Packers aren't so fragile.

 

About the three man squads....My assault squads/death company marines are notorious in my local gaming group for dropping down to 2-3 models left, then rolling up an entire flank on their own in murder-machine fashion. They like to play it slow with the armor saves, make the enemy think they're not a threat. Then when all the odds are against them they actually begin to fight. I realize not everyone has these results, but the amount of times it's happened in my games is pretty amazing. Hell against IG I even throw my assault bikes into combat against their infantry if I don't have a reasonable target to go after, if nothing else but to hide from heavy weapons. They usually win those combats too. Results may vary I on that subject I guess.

[SamaNagol]

In DoA lists your RAS are you anti armour anyway. RAS and Honour Guard Melta is what you rely on to pop armour.

[teemoki]

Thank you everyone! I have really learned a lot from everyone here! B)

 

I will be making a list soon which I will post a link here to from the army list forum!

 

Here's how I'm planning to start - with target priority (messing with my enemies target priority) and synergy in mind)

2 vindicators (the omg gotta kill those vehicles)

2 baals (to mop up after vindicators - also less targeted because of the vindicators

1 storm raven (going to test it out as everyone suggested since i want to see for myself if it can actually work with it or not...AV12 isn't going to live for very long so not really expecting much from here MAYBE. I did include 2 vindicators though to help saturate the shots away from this vehicle. Hope it works! I also took advice from 99.99% of the people here who said to include something on it instead of running it as purely a gunship. I will be putting a Furioso in it most likely and that's it.)

Furioso Dreadnought (this will be carried with my Storm raven. Debating on strategies with the SR if my opponent goes first and it survives his shooting. I will either move it 12" and shoot 2 guns or flat out and shoot 1. I'm thinking 12" is better because I will most likely get a 2nd turn assault no matter which way I take.

1 or 2 assault squads (10 2 meltas 1 pf)

 

Thats the base so far...what do you guys think? B) again appreciate all the help and feedback yall!!

[Zagman]

Thank you everyone! I have really learned a lot from everyone here! ;)

 

I will be making a list soon which I will post a link here to from the army list forum!

 

Here's how I'm planning to start - with target priority (messing with my enemies target priority) and synergy in mind)

2 vindicators (the omg gotta kill those vehicles)

2 baals (to mop up after vindicators - also less targeted because of the vindicators

1 storm raven (going to test it out as everyone suggested since i want to see for myself if it can actually work with it or not...AV12 isn't going to live for very long so not really expecting much from here MAYBE. I did include 2 vindicators though to help saturate the shots away from this vehicle. Hope it works! I also took advice from 99.99% of the people here who said to include something on it instead of running it as purely a gunship. I will be putting a Furioso in it most likely and that's it.)

Furioso Dreadnought (this will be carried with my Storm raven. Debating on strategies with the SR if my opponent goes first and it survives his shooting. I will either move it 12" and shoot 2 guns or flat out and shoot 1. I'm thinking 12" is better because I will most likely get a 2nd turn assault no matter which way I take.

1 or 2 assault squads (10 2 meltas 1 pf)

 

Thats the base so far...what do you guys think? :) again appreciate all the help and feedback yall!!

 

Looks to be a solid start. The best advice I can give you is to pick up the core of your force and start playtesting. Also, I have found Mephiston to be a solid HQ choice for Mechanized lists as he is fast enough to keep up and draws the same AT firepower which threatens your vehicles. Fly him forward, find him a cover save, and watch your opponent squirm as your force moves up and prepares to start firing.

 

I do use the Storm raven as primarily a gunship. I also give it a locator beacon to shuttle a librarian furioso for Dawn of War, Flatout and a no Scatter deployment since the Librarian furioso cannot fly on the first turn in Dawn of War.

 

Podding your Furioso is also a viable option as it will drastically change your opponent's target priority.

 

Assault Squads in LR/LRC/LRR are an extremely resilient troop choice which meshes well with your AV12+ army.

[teemoki]

@Zagman: Thanks for the advice! I've read a bunch of other peoples army lists and comments as well all over the place and almost every time someone posts a army with a podded Furioso it gets shot down almost always because it will be the only thing behind lines so it's a high priority target and will die before doing anything and also that it is in melta range already so it has an even higher chance of getting popped. What do you think about that? That's the reason I thought people were interested in only taking it in SR's or with more than 1 pod.

 

Thanks for the advice on the RAS in LR/LRC/LRR. I am assuming it is meshed well because it is also another high av target with high priority? I can see it annoying my opponent having a SR, 2 Vindicators, and LR in my side of the field :tu: lol

[CaptainLNH]

I use a Vindicator and Baal Pred w/Flamestorm/HeavyFlamers as a team of destruction. Deploy Vindicator on one flank, and leave Pred. in reserve. Opponet always hides infantry in cover to protect them from Vindicator. Vindicator fires on anything that comes out of cover, so opponent keeps units on flank in cover. When the Pred. arrives, I bring it onto the flank with the Vindicator, and use it to triple flame any units in cover hich their always are, and if I don't break their armour, the number of hits kills 60--80% of the unit. For me the using different armour types in teams always rewards me. I am going to try teaming with my Stormraven now that I have it painted.

 

Good Luck with your Army Teemoki.

[Black Memories]

Thank you everyone! I have really learned a lot from everyone here! :)

 

I will be making a list soon which I will post a link here to from the army list forum!

 

Here's how I'm planning to start - with target priority (messing with my enemies target priority) and synergy in mind)

2 vindicators (the omg gotta kill those vehicles)

2 baals (to mop up after vindicators - also less targeted because of the vindicators

1 storm raven (going to test it out as everyone suggested since i want to see for myself if it can actually work with it or not...AV12 isn't going to live for very long so not really expecting much from here MAYBE. I did include 2 vindicators though to help saturate the shots away from this vehicle. Hope it works! I also took advice from 99.99% of the people here who said to include something on it instead of running it as purely a gunship. I will be putting a Furioso in it most likely and that's it.)

Furioso Dreadnought (this will be carried with my Storm raven. Debating on strategies with the SR if my opponent goes first and it survives his shooting. I will either move it 12" and shoot 2 guns or flat out and shoot 1. I'm thinking 12" is better because I will most likely get a 2nd turn assault no matter which way I take.

1 or 2 assault squads (10 2 meltas 1 pf)

 

Thats the base so far...what do you guys think? :) again appreciate all the help and feedback yall!!

 

The only thing to be careful of is to make very sure of what you're doing with your vindicators. You have a half-and-half assault element that could easily be splattered by an errant vindi shot, or a tank or such. That's always a concern to me. Who is going to be the HQ unit? Or am I missing something? If it's sanguinor just throw him in that stormraven. Lasguns and bolt pistols kill him as easily as any heavy weapon so make sure to protect him from inferior troop rapid fire.

[Zagman]

@Zagman: Thanks for the advice! I've read a bunch of other peoples army lists and comments as well all over the place and almost every time someone posts a army with a podded Furioso it gets shot down almost always because it will be the only thing behind lines so it's a high priority target and will die before doing anything and also that it is in melta range already so it has an even higher chance of getting popped. What do you think about that? That's the reason I thought people were interested in only taking it in SR's or with more than 1 pod.

 

Thanks for the advice on the RAS in LR/LRC/LRR. I am assuming it is meshed well because it is also another high av target with high priority? I can see it annoying my opponent having a SR, 2 Vindicators, and LR in my side of the field :) lol

 

You are correct that the Furioso is in melta range. You can alleviate this somewhat by positioning. But taking say a Librarian furioso with Blood lance and Shield has the potential to net you 3 vehicles if you are lucky. It also forces your opponent to redeploy and counter the Dread, and usually over counter as having cover save thanks to shield gives you more survivability. If they don't counter with enough firepower, your dread can survive to cause further damage. Now these meltas are not adancing towards your army. You may also have a pod on their objective. This tactic doesn't work as well as utilizing a Ven dread like vanilla marines can, but it has its uses. Another possible use is a frag cannon furioso for choice AT or infantry targets, long fangs come to mind. Two S6 rending templates as well as a meltagun is a very versatile alphas strike. With just one pod, you guarantee that it deploys first turn. Otherwise you would need three pods to get a second 1st turn pod.

 

RAS in LR/LRC/LRR are high armor values scoring units. They are synergystic with your other higher armor values and can provide long ranged fire support or hoard control based upon their make.

 

I believe that I commented in your other thread about army lists and posted a suggested list.

[teemoki]

Phew! Thanks guys! Here's the list I finally came up with. Tell me what you guys think in the thread please. I tried to take as much as possible away from this thread and put the thought of making a competitive army that synergizes well together and is strong into the list. Hope to hear what you guys think! Thanks!

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=227041