DCA versus SS! Round 1, Fight!

[Gentlemanloser]

I'll admit, I'm not keen on the Inquisitorial side of Knights, being a GK player. But having skimmed the Inquisitorial stuff, Death Cult Assassins always stood out to me as the 'wow' choice of Henchmen.

 

So just for fun, I thought i'd mock up some basic Mathhammer pitting a comparable Squad of DCA versus that of the standard Grey Knight troops, the Strike Squad.

 

DCA versus SS

 

12 x DCA, 180 points;

 

WS5, S4, I6, A36, Save: 5++

 

10 x SS, 200 points;

 

WS4, S4/5, I4, A11, Save: 3+

 

 

 

Results for a single Assault round.

 

DCA attacking SS;

 

Hit on 3+, 24 Hits. Wound on 4+, 12 Wounds. No Save, 12 Dead SS.

 

SS attacking DCA (With Hammerhand)

 

Hit on 4+, 5.5 Hits. Wound on 2+, 4.6 Wounds. 5++ Save, 3.1 Dead DCA.

 

 

Lets make this a little more realistic, and look at both sides shooting/getting the charge.

 

 

DCA attacking SS;

 

Hit on 3+, 32 Hits. Wound on 4+, 16 Wounds. No Save, 16 Dead SS. (BOOM! Headshot!)

 

SS attacking DCA (With Hammerhand);

 

20 Storm Bolter shots, hit on 3+, 13.3 Hits. Wound on 3+, 9 Wounds. 5++ Save, 6 Dead DCA

Initiative 6, 6 DCA attack

Hit on 3+, 12 Hits. Wound on 4+, 6 Wounds. No Save, 6 Dead SS

Initiative 4, 4 SS Attack

Hit on 4+, 4.5 Hits. Wound on 2+, 3.75 Wounds. 5++ Save, 2.5 Dead DCA

 

Next round;

Initiative 6, 3.5 DCA attack

Hit on 3+, 7 Hits. Wound on 4+, 3.5 Wounds. No Save, 3.5 Dead SS

Initiative 4, 0.5 SS (Justicar) attack

Hit on 4+, 0.25 Hits. Wound on 2+, 0.2 Wounds. 5++ Save, 0.13 Dead DCA

 

Next round, the Justicar is killed.

 

There are approximately 3.3 DCA left. Not bad for a unit that’s 20 points cheaper. ;)

 

 

Heh. DCA. don't leave home without them! :wacko: (And whatever you do, *don't* let them get the charge!!! ;))

[Wildfire]

Now figure it with DCA getting a popped transport at 24", and the GKs walking backwards and shooting them for 3-4 rounds.

[Gentlemanloser]

How are the SS gonna pop the Chimera with thier Storm Bolters? :wacko:

 

If we're taking other units into account, maybe the DCA are in a Raven, or get summoned by a Lib, or the SS gets tied up by shunting NDKs/Interceptors, or DSing Termies and can't retreat.

 

Maybe the DCA walk behind a Dread or another chimera and are out of LoS to the Strike Squad.

[Marshall666]

Dreadnaught 115 points ...

 

I see u 65 points cheaper than your DCA, and render them useless.. :wacko:

[Gentlemanloser]

Winner!

 

Flawless Victory!

 

LoL!

 

Besides, the Dread would do the same to the SS, Krak grenades, or no! :wacko:

[Wildfire]

How are the SS gonna pop the Chimera with thier Storm Bolters? :rolleyes:

 

What SS squad is going to forgo psycannons?

[Something Wycked]

What SS squad is going to forgo psycannons?

The one that's coming in cheaper to fill a Troop slot, or only used to DS onto an objective or or or... Not everyone is going to kit their squads the same way.

[grimz]

I think DCA are a bit under rated for what they can actually do. And given this is primarily a Power Armour forum it kinda makes sense.

 

That said - GKSS have some really great utility, scoring and being able to stop enemy deep strikers are really great.

 

It'd be great to actually get a report of some DCA actually in a game

[Wildfire]

As I've said in another thread, I think DCA (and Arcoflagellents) look very good for their cost. The problem is that they're glass hammers, so I think full squads of them is going to be a big points sink that will rarely work well enough to be worth the cost. I feel a better way to use DCA is 2-4 in a squad of naked Acolytes to use as meat shields. Run those numbers, if you will.

 

The other problem with DCA is that they're $15 a pop, if I recall correctly. Who's going to field an army of them at that price?

 

Edited to add: well, I ran the numbers myself. 4 DCA with 8 naked Acolytes in a Chimera is only 147.

 

DCA turn

Chimera discharges squad, which shoots las pistols and does squat with them. Chimera can also shoot/flame, but we'll discount that as well. Then the charge:

 

DCA strike with 16 attacks, 10.67 hits, 5.33 wounds, no saves allowed. Let's round in favor of the GK and say 5 dead.

 

5 remaining GKs strike back (with hammerhand) with 6 attacks, 4 hits, 3.33 wounds, again we'll round in favor of the GK: 4 dead.

 

4 remaining Acolytes manage to throw 12 attacks, 6 hits, 2 wounds, and we'll say both saved.

 

GK's turn

DCA strike with 12 attacks, 8 hits, 4 wounds

 

Justicar strikes back, hitting 1 time (as majority WS is now 5), wounding .84 times, rounded 1 one dead acolyte

 

Acolytes attack 6 times, hit 3 times, wound once, maybe saved.

 

 

As you can see here, even constantly rounding in the favor of GKs you can trade almost a full GK squad in 2 rounds of combat for 20 points of Acolytes, be safe from shooting on your opponent's turn, and still have a credible threat against another squad (4 DCA and 2-4 acolytes) PLUS a Chimera that is freed up after it unloads it's cargo, all for less than 75% of the cost of a full Strike Squad, or a bit more than 80% of a full 12 DCA. This is the way to build a good DCA squad.

[Resv]

What SS squad is going to forgo psycannons?

The one that's coming in cheaper to fill a Troop slot, or only used to DS onto an objective or or or... Not everyone is going to kit their squads the same way.

 

Wait...what? That is your reasoning? I really don't think you will ever see a GKSS without a Psycannon for their price. If GK do anything well is it killing light to medium armor. Also, if you are really bent for points that you are taking the bare minimum of Gray Knight squad then your list has some other problems besides being better than Death Cult Assassins.

 

Also, lets not forget that DCA don't have grenades.

[Wildfire]

Also, lets not forget that DCA don't have grenades.

 

Well, that is a very good point. It's also made me realize that there is no way to get grenades anywhere in the Henchmen entry. If only Inquisitors were still Elites, it'd be worth their minimal cost just to get grenades in said squad.

[RedMoon]

thats why i see a lot of people putting them in crusaders and redeemers since they have frag launchers, but that ups there points a LOT

[Reclusiarch Darius]

DCA work best in a Stormraven with either Coteaz or a Librarian attached to grant them 'Hammerhand' (or in the Librarian's case, actually boost them to S6 with 'Might' stacked on top). Chimeras are too slow a delivery system, you need to be pulling Turn 2 charges.

 

I'd also advise against pure DCA squads. However, instead of useless red-shirts cluttering up the unit, take some Banishers w/eviscerators. 2-3 gives you insurance vs walkers and tanks (two things DC can't kill at all), and you still have points for 5 x DCA. This is what I'd field;

 

3 x Banisher w/eviscerator, 5 x DCA

(150 points)

 

Strike squads perform a different role, that of bringing more dakka, psycannon and power-armoured manz into your list (not to mention the utility of Deepstrike or a dedicated transport, and the sometimes useful 'Warp Quake'). I'd argue Purifiers are a better investment, but thats not possible in a Henchmen army unless you give up the Librarian for Crowe (which is quite a questionable trade-off).

[Brom MKIV]

It'd be great to actually get a report of some DCA actually in a game

 

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=226868

[Wildfire]

DCA work best in a Stormraven with either Coteaz or a Librarian attached to grant them 'Hammerhand' (or in the Librarian's case, actually boost them to S6 with 'Might' stacked on top). Chimeras are too slow a delivery system, you need to be pulling Turn 2 charges.

 

I'd also advise against pure DCA squads. However, instead of useless red-shirts cluttering up the unit, take some Banishers w/eviscerators. 2-3 gives you insurance vs walkers and tanks (two things DC can't kill at all), and you still have points for 5 x DCA. This is what I'd field;

 

3 x Banisher w/eviscerator, 5 x DCA

(150 points)

 

Strike squads perform a different role, that of bringing more dakka, psycannon and power-armoured manz into your list (not to mention the utility of Deepstrike or a dedicated transport, and the sometimes useful 'Warp Quake'). I'd argue Purifiers are a better investment, but thats not possible in a Henchmen army unless you give up the Librarian for Crowe (which is quite a questionable trade-off).

 

Turn 2 charges? No, you should want to be pulling late game charges with a unit that deadly. Early charges will leave you stranded in enemy rapidfire range without support. There goes your 600 point unit.