Inquisitor =D= Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Edit; I thought to perhaps open up the discussion to better said topic. Why is the Digital Weapon an option for the Brotherhood Champion? Digital Weapons allow 1 failed to wound roll to be rerolled per assault phase. The Brotherhood Champions have Anointed Blades which on top of being NFW's allow you to re-roll All failed to wound rolls. So... Why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Because proof reading is not a strong point of GW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I think the better question is "why have a Brotherhood Champion"? :mellow: Joke aside this is GW, such things are commonplace. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 maybe he can reroll a failed reroll to wound :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangelCJ Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 i al;ways thouhgt digital weapons where only for shooting and the anointed weapon was only for CC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Something about a die can only be re-rolled once is in the rules. So nopes, just GW fail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I think the better question is "why have a Brotherhood Champion"?;) Joke aside this is GW, such things are commonplace. True. Not to say he's rubbish (pure-GK players looking for their cheap HQ stop here) but like half the stuff in this codex the BroChamp feels incomplete. Giving him access to a wider range of options would be a start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I'm starting to feel the 'dex was released too early. It needs more work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Man I Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 maybe he can reroll a failed reroll to wound ;) We hear you like reroll your rerolls. So we put a reroll in your reroll so you can reroll while rerolling! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I think the better question is "why have a Brotherhood Champion"?;) Joke aside this is GW, such things are commonplace. True. Not to say he's rubbish (pure-GK players looking for their cheap HQ stop here) but like half the stuff in this codex the BroChamp feels incomplete. Giving him access to a wider range of options would be a start. Sigh, the Brotherhood Champion is not HORRIBLE BEYOND ALL REASON. He has one, and really, only one place in any army - a HQ in a PGK for very small point games. Off the top of my head, (aka I don't have the codex with me): 1) Its 100 points for a guy thats marginally better than a Justicar. Okay. 2) His stances are mostly pointless, and even his AoE sweep would probably hit no more than say, 2-3 models. Sometimes you'd have just one attack. And Rapier Strike probably won't have anything to target because its MC/IC only. 3) His gimmick......is rather gimmicky. It *could* work, but you have to pass a psychic test then hit. And assume your opponent was hitting him with something worth pulling your gimmick on, and not some random grunt. This plus part is that he is basically a Chaplain of sorts, albeit with one wound. But frankly, as I recall it only triggers when he charges, and under many circumstances, it is difficult to be the one charging when you are only moving 6" a turn, particularly against faster armies. Very honestly if you have no reservations (i.e. you don't mind playing the Inquisition), an Inquisitor is SO MUCH BETTER. If I had 100 points to blow on an Inquisitor you have a full 75 points to spend on wargear - heck most of the time you almost never need that many points anyway! And an Inquisitor is SO good for what you are paying for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 OM Inquisitor, TDA, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Psycannon: 80 points and 3W. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2716937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Sigh, the Brotherhood Champion is not HORRIBLE BEYOND ALL REASON. He has one, and really, only one place in any army - a HQ in a PGK for very small point games... Wasn't implying why you hadn't considered this. It was more in agreement that there's plenty of wasted potential with this unit, while trying to retain some optimism. :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2717008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I'm starting to feel the 'dex was released too early. It needs more work. Yeah... Eight years is cutting it a bit close ;) Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2717052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor =D= Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Yeah I thought it must've been an oversight. But now I feel I must defend the poor fellow... WS 7, Ld 10... In all honesty those are some pretty good odds to me. Here's my plan for him, when I face that nutty guy at my LGS who runs 2 trygons with a Hive Tyrant as his spearhead I am gonna happily throw this champion into one of them. Hive Tyrant probably, but IF he goes down (Remember the 2+/3++) I'm bringing that MC down with me! That's 100pts of GK bringing 200+pts to the pit with himself. I like those odds. Think of the applications here. Tyrants, Typhus, Abby(?), Greater Daemons, Thunderwolf HQ(?), Soul Grinders, Talos, Wraithlord, Land Raider, Titan? "If the test is successful, the Brotherhood Champion immediately makes a single attack against one enemy Model that was in base contact when he died. If this attack hits, both models are removed as casualties with no saves of any kind allowed." Headlines at next Apocalypse game, "Brotherhood Champion takes down Reaver Titan" :( =]D[= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2717371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 And their goes a Champion who heroicly in death killed 1 guardsmen called Matt, he rolled double 1 but hey that guardsmen died. Wouldnt that make his sacrifice look even more "stupid"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2717704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor =D= Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 It'd be worse if all he killed was a nurgling... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2717962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
501st Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 The Brotherhood Champion is roughly the equivalent of a Space Marine Chaplin, he allows his squad to re-roll hits and to wounds on the turn he charges as well as being a damn good all rounder. His ability to switch fighting style is very useful, for example if there is a huge dreadnought rampaging through your lines and your anti tank paladins are too far away charge it and switch to defensive that way he has a re-roll able 3+ invulnerable save. If there is a bloody fast enemy charecter doing the same charge it and switch to rapier strike and get D3 In10 attacks which can insta kill. If there is a horde of orks charge and switch to Blade Storm so you get an attack on every enemy in Base to base. and after all that if he does go down you at least have a chance to be spiteful and kill the model that killed you I personally use a Champion instead of a captain just cos my captain always ends up getting his face chewed off Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If there is a bloody fast enemy charecter doing the same charge it and switch to rapier strike and get D3 In10 attacks which can insta kill The Brotherhood Champion and Rapier Strike can't inflict ID. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Hatter Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If there is a bloody fast enemy charecter doing the same charge it and switch to rapier strike and get D3 In10 attacks which can insta kill The Brotherhood Champion and Rapier Strike can't inflict ID. Why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo1701 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 With regard to taking down a reaver (and it's been a while since I've looked at the APOC rules so please correct me if I'm wrong), isn't it stated somewhere that super heavies can't be damaged by any psychic powers, of which heroic sacrifice is? On the subject of heroic sacrifice, if the BC charges he can reroll to hit correct? SO, does that mean he can also reroll to hit with his heroic sacrifice if he's killed in a turn in which he charges? If so, brutal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Hatter Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 On the subject of heroic sacrifice, if the BC charges he can reroll to hit correct? SO, does that mean he can also reroll to hit with his heroic sacrifice if he's killed in a turn in which he charges? If so, brutal. For sure, it's a CC attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA.Rauk Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If there is a bloody fast enemy charecter doing the same charge it and switch to rapier strike and get D3 In10 attacks which can insta kill The Brotherhood Champion and Rapier Strike can't inflict ID. He has a psychic weapon, so not quite sure why he can't. And the Brotherhood Champion isn't really all that bad imo. He's 100 points for something that not only multiplies whatever part of your force is assaulty, but he also is a threat for those big CC monsters (Swarmlord, Mephiston and Abbadon I'm looking at you.). Overall, a good buy for a 100 point guy that has the versatility a good number of our HQ's offer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundam Fan Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If there is a bloody fast enemy charecter doing the same charge it and switch to rapier strike and get D3 In10 attacks which can insta kill The Brotherhood Champion and Rapier Strike can't inflict ID. Why? Indeed, the champ does have a nemesis force sword so he can inflict ID with a successful LD 10 Psychic test however if he activates his NFS he can't use heroic sacrifice so it's a bit of a tough choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If there is a bloody fast enemy charecter doing the same charge it and switch to rapier strike and get D3 In10 attacks which can insta kill The Brotherhood Champion and Rapier Strike can't inflict ID. Why? Indeed, the champ does have a nemesis force sword so he can inflict ID with a successful LD 10 Psychic test however if he activates his NFS he can't use heroic sacrifice so it's a bit of a tough choice. Perhaps gentleman loser is pointing out that, given the current rules, if you're not a unit you still have to follow the rules of force weapons in the book, which means, given he is psychic mastery 1 means only one test for one wound max, but really it doesn't matter because all your attack must be directed against one IC/MC and if you wound and pass it's gonna insta gib the one guy you were hitting anyway, and if they're immune it doesn't matter how many of them were instant-death. Bar that no idea IMO though he should have been an elite choice, i'd give up an elite slot + 100pts to have him running around with a squad of my purifiers or something like that. But really when I can run a GM/Libby combo or a Crowe/Libby team I see no reason to include him :). ~Gil :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Nah, I was geting hung up with the GW article that thought Crowe could ID like Skulltaker. My bad! ^_^ Sure, you can use their Force Weapon (and I'd go with the interpretation that all wounds caused ID), but as said, that locks out HS. Still, if you can get the Rapier Strike in that that would probably be the better use of a Psychic Test than HS, and doesn't mean you lose your mini! Best of both worlds really. You get two chances of IDing an IC/MC. When you Rapier Strike them, then if you fail to wound and they kill you, you get to HS them anyway. HS would be better for EW targets. I still think the BC is a poor HQ choice. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226805-the-brotherhood-champion/#findComment-2718350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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