RetCons in Codex Grey Knights

[EPK]

RETCON: The Grey Knights are THE Chamber Militant for the Inquisition.

REFERENCE: Page 44: "As the Inquisition's chamber militant, much of the Grey Knights' work lies in the support of individual Inquisitors. Should an Inquisitor encounter a threat beyond his own means, daemonic or otherwise, the Grey Knights are his first recourse."

PREVIOUSLY: The Grey Knights were the Chamber Militant for the Ordo Malleus, the Sisters of Battle were the Chamber Militant for the Ordo Hereticus, and the Deathwatch were the Chamber Militant for the Ordo Xenos. I'm going to predict that Codex: Sisters of Battle, when it comes within the year, will likely not feature an Inquisition presence.

 

This is an interesting development. I kind of enjoyed the overlap of the Ministorum and the Inquisition/Ordo Hereticus and the convolution of imperial government it implied. Though the SoB are noted as being the "unoffficial" chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus so not too much of a stretch (and could still act in such a capacity where GKs are simply not needed, weeding out regular heretics rebels and such). Also, one of the jobs of that Ordo is to "police" the Ministorum, so it seems odd that the actual chamber militant of the Ministorum (SoB) would police themselves in a sense.

 

I'm wagering if they have nothing to do with the Inquisition, as you are thinking FB, and will therefore not have Inquisitors in their armies anymore, the new codex could possibly feature new Ecclesiarchy-type units and leaders. Warrior pontifs, confessors and such leading groups of Frateris Milita in concert with the Sisters. Though on the other hand, it could be strictly a Sisters of Battle codex with units that only fall under their military organization. I think the former sounds more interesting though, more flavor. What do you guys think?

 

So I don't mind the change in that regard, but where will this leave Ordo Xenos and the Deathwatch? Why recruit other chapter's marines when you already have Grey Knights at your disposal? Especially when you consider the very secretive missions the Deathwatch run on, why mix a bunch of chapters together and risk information traveling back to their parent chapter when again, you can just use a chapter (the GKs) that is solely loyal to only you (you being the Inquisition of course).

[Reldn]

So I don't mind the change in that regard, but where will this leave Ordo Xenos and the Deathwatch? Why recruit other chapter's marines when you already have Grey Knights at your disposal? Especially when you consider the very secretive missions the Deathwatch run on, why mix a bunch of chapters together and risk information traveling back to their parent chapter when again, you can just use a chapter (the GKs) that is solely loyal to only you (you being the Inquisition of course).

 

Somehow I get the feeling that due to this retcon we will no longer have the Deathwatch. They'll probably end up getting disbanded or just never mentioned again.

[Valerian]

So I don't mind the change in that regard, but where will this leave Ordo Xenos and the Deathwatch? Why recruit other chapter's marines when you already have Grey Knights at your disposal? Especially when you consider the very secretive missions the Deathwatch run on, why mix a bunch of chapters together and risk information traveling back to their parent chapter when again, you can just use a chapter (the GKs) that is solely loyal to only you (you being the Inquisition of course).

 

Somehow I get the feeling that due to this retcon we will no longer have the Deathwatch. They'll probably end up getting disbanded or just never mentioned again.

 

To be honest, I never much cared for the idea of the Deathwatch anyway. Why borrow Marines from various Chapters to bring them together to work for Ordo Xenos Inquisitors, when that Inquisitor could just go grab the rquisite forces from any nearby Chapter to fight for him until they weren't needed anymore?

 

Valerian

[Inquisitor Fox]

There is a long standing alliance between Malleus radicals and the Eldar Harlequins.

This one actually isn't new... the Ordo Malleus has always been described as working with the Harlequins, also the Illuminati likewise (back from when Squats were part of the fluff even!) work with the Harlequins. This may not have been common knowledge outside of real Inquisition fluff buffs (which I suppose I count as), but it's not a ret-con It's worked in with the Star Child / Numen fluff.

 

EDIT: The Deathwatch is pretty integral to 40K for it to go poof. The reason to have the Deathwatch is two fold. First, it provides a larger pool of Marines to do missions, as just one Chapter isn't enough to be across the entire galaxy on everything that needs done. They just need more men. Second, it helps disseminate alien hunting techniques and knowledge to the Chapters when their Battle Brothers return and teach what they've learned to their fellows. Both are good purposes <_<

[Codicier Lucion]

This is an interesting development. I kind of enjoyed the overlap of the Ministorum and the Inquisition/Ordo Hereticus and the convolution of imperial government it implied. Though the SoB are noted as being the "unoffficial" chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus so not too much of a stretch (and could still act in such a capacity where GKs are simply not needed, weeding out regular heretics rebels and such). Also, one of the jobs of that Ordo is to "police" the Ministorum, so it seems odd that the actual chamber militant of the Ministorum (SoB) would police themselves in a sense.

 

I'm wagering if they have nothing to do with the Inquisition, as you are thinking FB, and will therefore not have Inquisitors in their armies anymore, the new codex could possibly feature new Ecclesiarchy-type units and leaders. Warrior pontifs, confessors and such leading groups of Frateris Milita in concert with the Sisters. Though on the other hand, it could be strictly a Sisters of Battle codex with units that only fall under their military organization. I think the former sounds more interesting though, more flavor. What do you guys think?

 

So I don't mind the change in that regard, but where will this leave Ordo Xenos and the Deathwatch? Why recruit other chapter's marines when you already have Grey Knights at your disposal? Especially when you consider the very secretive missions the Deathwatch run on, why mix a bunch of chapters together and risk information traveling back to their parent chapter when again, you can just use a chapter (the GKs) that is solely loyal to only you (you being the Inquisition of course).

 

...

Commissar, if you please.

 

http://1d4chan.org/images/7/77/Commissar_NO.jpg

 

To be honest, I never much cared for the idea of the Deathwatch anyway. Why borrow Marines from various Chapters to bring them together to work for Ordo Xenos Inquisitors, when that Inquisitor could just go grab the rquisite forces from any nearby Chapter to fight for him until they weren't needed anymore?

 

Valerian

 

Let's see, how many reasons are there:

 

- So they don't have to hunt down each chapter's home world and waste time trying to convince a chapter master to lend the Inquisiton a dozen marines for a mission. The Inquisition might be powerful but even they don't just barge in and start making demands to space marines. Plus the Deathwatch are under their direct command rather than just being attached to them.

 

- It gives the Inquisitions flexibility and a variety of different marines from multiple chapters on hand. Need a sniper? they've got someone form the Mantis Warriors. Need a berserker? Space Wolves.

 

- Deathwatch marines also tend to consist of some of the best making up each chapter with captains or sergeants serving time in it for additional experience. Also meaning they don't have to frequently recruit from multiple worlds and spend time training each marine, instead taking them from chapter's who have already trained them. Meaning they can cut any losses they take much quicker than usual.

 

- It gives Games Workshop an excuse to make interesting short stories, fluff and one RPG book.

 

There is a long standing alliance between Malleus radicals and the Eldar Harlequins.

This one actually isn't new... the Ordo Malleus has always been described as working with the Harlequins, also the Illuminati likewise (back from when Squats were part of the fluff even!) work with the Harlequins. This may not have been common knowledge outside of real Inquisition fluff buffs (which I suppose I count as), but it's not a ret-con :( It's worked in with the Star Child / Numen fluff.

 

Oh I do know this, I did read the Inquisition War trilogy a while ago. But it's not mentioned any more and due to obvious reasons it seemed people were trying to avoid mentioning it. There seems to be just a slight lapse in logic when you have a wing of the secret police belonging to a highly xenophobic empire working along side aliens.

Especially when it could be risking mass conflict, and borderline civil war with the Ordo Xenos.

 

Reintroducing it again now just opens up a lot of problems and questions.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The Inquisition was at civil war with itself when it was founded by the 4 lords.. between the Promethean ressurection type folks and the ones that opposed them ;) Or rather the Inquisition was founded to help defeat the work of the other two, and then some of the will be Thorians got into the Inquisition which was founded to defeat them (irony at work..) and to be honest there's even 'civil war' between members of the same Ordo, let alone between fellow Inquisitors

 

The reason I think it doesn't come up or get mentioned a lot is that Space Marines and Guard get more screen time than Inquisitors (for obvious reasons!) so lots of the Inquisition fluff doesn't come up very often on the tabletop ;) Checking things like the novels or the Inquisitor game however, reveal a different side of the story...

 

Personally, I'm all for this fluff being brought up again. In my mind it never died in the first place, especially when the Star Child idea was also rebrought up in Xenology from the Black Library. It appears as if my own models fluff is still canon even if no one else really seems to discuss the Illuminati, the Thorians, and the Inquisition *grins*

[EPK]

Yes I agree. I don't think that Deathwatch is going anywhere (considering both the bits they include in kits AND the big old RPG they have), I simply think the GKs now being the chamber militant for the Inquisition as a whole sort of devalues them, story wise at least. I do also agree with the reasons they are still a resource to the Inquisition regardless - the Inquisition wants to have it's hand everywhere obviously.

 

But will the Deathwatch be defined as a "special agency" of the Ordos Xenos within the Inquisition or will they actually keep calling them the military arm of the Ordo Xenos despite the GK retcon? I might prefer the first option but, just stop calling them the military wing. They are usually always small specialized units anyway, aren't they? not really a military organization per se.

[Sothalor]

I would say, based on this codex, that the Grey Knights are possibly no longer the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus. There's a great deal of emphasis placed on the autonomy of the Grey Knights as their own chapter, far more so than in previous background. It only says that they work with the Ordo Malleus the most because of their overlapping areas of specialty. There is no longer any mention of a Grey Knight Grand Master serving on the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition. There's nothing that explicitly states whether they are or aren't though.

 

Other retcons I noticed:

 

1. Grey Knight Terminator squads are now led by Justicars, not Brother-Captains.

 

2. Purifiers and Paladins - these guys are more "new" than retcon.

 

3. Nemesis Force Weapons no longer grow in strength according to the wielder's abilities.

 

4. Grey Knights no longer have the Shrouding effect without Librarians. There's nothing in the fluff about them cloaking themselves either.

 

5. There's nothing anymore about how Grey Knights prefer to just die and be buried than be interred in Dreadnoughts. Again, that doesn't mean it's gone as a fluff element, it's just not mentioned.

[Grey Mage]

There is a long standing alliance between Malleus radicals and the Eldar Harlequins.

Not a retcon- and not just radicals, though its more prevalent with them.

 

The Eldar have the largest library on chaos and the demonic in the galaxy, bar none- and some inquisitors have been allowed under heavy gaurd to go and find information for some time now.

[spu00sed]

The ecclesiarchy now has men under arms.

 

Crusaders are a fighting force of the church.

[Iron Lord]

@Daedalus Templarius: Yeah, A Thousand Sons definitely seemed to me to be an attempt to solidify the definition of sorcery as warpcraft and daemonic. So I'm really surprised to see that Ward was allowed to change the definition so drastically so soon.

As I recall, the first and foremost thing in A Thousand Sons was "a sorcerer uses his powers for personal gain, whereas astropaths and navigators use their powers solely to serve the Imperium"

[- 7eAL -]

I regard all this as fanfiction by Ward, please don't start a argument in here over this, due to the frequently contradictions in every aspect of 40K, but I feel that these supposed retcons should be listed in full. Here's a few i've found out:

 

Khorne followers can now be defeated by the use of blood.

 

The Warp is now tangible meaning people can walk around and survive inside it without any problems, many locations such as Nurgle's Garden are now literal locations rather than simple aspects of something greater downsized to something mortals can comprehend, the overall corrupting effects of the warp is no longer what it once was.

 

The Grey Knights are now apparently powerful enough to just shrug off and ignore any corrupting effects of the warp and are more or less capable of generating their own Gellar Fields.

 

Daemons are outright destroyed by the Grey Knights rather than just banished.

 

They Grey Knights now make deals with Xeno races on a regular basis.

 

There is a long standing alliance between Malleus radicals and the Eldar Harlequins.

The Grey Knights are now easily capable of fighting on par with even the strongest daemons* as a result of Dreadknights, 'more immune' Grey Knights who were already immune to the effects of the negative Warp, and horribly powerful characters. There is no longer a David vs Goliath theme to the army any more.

 

The entire command structure of the Grey Knights has changed, focusing upon brotherhoods and such.

 

It is now confirmed that they use the gene seed of the Emperor rather than several pre heresy Legions as the Horus Heresy Black Library material was working towards.

 

The Grey Knights have no problems allying themselves to rogue Inquisitors who use daemonhosts, use daemon weapons and openly consort with chaos.

 

The Grey Knights see nothing suspicious about one of their members summoning ghosts of their fallen and another of their Justicars apparently turning into a highlander.

 

There are apparently only one thousand Grey Knights rather than the supposed three thousand there were previously.

 

They see nothing wrong with slaying the innocent, those who also fight for the Inquisition I.E. the Sisters of Battle, so they can use their blood in chaos rituals.

 

EDIT: Also, if Draigo's background is anything to go by, the Warhammer 40,000 time-line now extends far beyond the end of 41M.

 

The Grey Knights now guard a doomsday weapon known as the Terminus Decree.

 

* - Not including those made by Forge World. Let's be thankful he's not gotten around to trying to 'even the odds' against the greater daemon characters they made yet.

Mortarion has been severely beaten down by a certain Grey Knight and has a name carved into his heart. One of the two he presumably has anyway.

 

The Grey Knights were supposedly the Emperor's fail-safe upon dying and passed on secrets about warp craft they shared with no one else, giving them defences no one else has save for the Emperor.

 

Most Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors now apparently turn directly to the Grey Knights for help rather than their own militant wing: the Sisters of Battle.

Did he retcon the size of the grey knights?

 

I always thought they numbered closer to 6000 not the 1000 in this codex.

 

Last I read there were three thousand of them prior the this new Codex.

 

One last possible retcon I know of: The Grey Knights now harbour daemons in the form of weapons if Crowe is anything to go by.

Oh, two more things which came to mind:

 

Arrogance, hubris and pride apparently no longer equal corruption if you are a Grey Knight. At least going by Draigo's background anyway.

 

One of the things which supposedly gives the Grey Knights their immunity to Chaos is that they carry the Emperor's gene seed. This is contradicted by the entire basic plot of the Horus Heresy and the fallen Primarchs.

I commend Codicier Lucion for the work involved in this great list. Truly a blessing for the Resistance.

 

I will note, however, that Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness and the Index Astartes article describing Grey Knights and Deathwatch do not definitively indicate the number of men in the Grey Knights Chapter. They do not suggest that the number of men in the Grey Knights Chapter is any more, or less, or even the same as the number of men in any other Space Marine Chapter. I believe that the estimates of between 3000 and 6000 Grey Knights have always arisen from, perpetuated among, and spread by the members of this board who decided upon those numbers by some general consensus over issues including the unreliability of long distance Warp-travel, the need for forces patrolling everywhere at all times, and the incredibly high attrition rate of Grey Knights "Davids" in combat against Daemonic "Goliaths".

 

 

To be honest, I never much cared for the idea of the Deathwatch anyway. Why borrow Marines from various Chapters to bring them together to work for Ordo Xenos Inquisitors, when that Inquisitor could just go grab the rquisite forces from any nearby Chapter to fight for him until they weren't needed anymore?

Let's see, how many reasons are there:

 

- So they don't have to hunt down each chapter's home world and waste time trying to convince a chapter master to lend the Inquisiton a dozen marines for a mission. The Inquisition might be powerful but even they don't just barge in and start making demands to space marines. Plus the Deathwatch are under their direct command rather than just being attached to them.

 

- It gives the Inquisitions flexibility and a variety of different marines from multiple chapters on hand. Need a sniper? they've got someone form the Mantis Warriors. Need a berserker? Space Wolves.

 

- Deathwatch marines also tend to consist of some of the best making up each chapter with captains or sergeants serving time in it for additional experience. Also meaning they don't have to frequently recruit from multiple worlds and spend time training each marine, instead taking them from chapter's who have already trained them. Meaning they can cut any losses they take much quicker than usual.

 

- It gives Games Workshop an excuse to make interesting short stories, fluff and one RPG book.

To continue where Lucion left off, Space Marines are not trained to deal with the situations that the Deathwatch must handle.

 

Many of the situations that the Deathwatch must face may include political and social diplomacy, whether non-Marines are providing intelligence information, whether xenos are providing assistance and equipment, whether an information blackout must be maintained with the help of local populations and governments, and so on. This is represented by the Deathwatch roleplaying game, of course, and not on the tabletop.

 

The Deathwatch must handle aliens that are "more dangerous than the most violent of Orks", "ancient before humans crawled from the oceans", and "evil beyond measure" (Index Astartes II, 42). These include the Necrons and Tyranids, certainly, but otherwise refer to races and creatures that have never been represented by a codex, or have never been given rules, or have never appeared in more than one rulebook at a time. Descriptions of most such enemies say that their violence, technology or superior power would instantly overwhelm Imperial territories if they could ever leave their homeworld and system. A substantial list of sentient xenos races and creatures - to say nothing of non-sentient creatures that would be of use to Tyranid hive fleets - that would warrant observation, suppression, and potential elimination by Deathwatch forces is found at the bottom: Lexicanum - List of Sentient Species

 

The Deathwatch must handle xenos technologies. While it is possible for Chapter Techmarines to investigate and work on xenos technologies, the background creates or at least suggests a logical necessity for all technologies irrespective of origin to pass through the hands of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Only a politically powerless organization such as the Deathwatch can be forcefully made to deliver all technological finds from the battlefield or investigation to the Adeptus Mechanicus with minimal tampering, and so they are trained to do exactly that. In return they receive significantly better equipment such as weapon suspensors, and are allowed to apply certain xenos technologies against the xenos themselves.

 

 

The ecclesiarchy now has men under arms.

 

Crusaders are a fighting force of the church.

The Ecclesiarchy commands men who take up arms, but not even the Crusaders are considered to break the Decree Passive, because none of these forces are paid or maintained by the Ministorum. Except the Sisters of Battle, all Ecclesiarchal fighting forces are composed of volunteers whose basic necessities are presumably maintained by the support of other volunteers.

[Codicier Lucion]

The Inquisition was at civil war with itself when it was founded by the 4 lords.. between the Promethean ressurection type folks and the ones that opposed them ;) Or rather the Inquisition was founded to help defeat the work of the other two, and then some of the will be Thorians got into the Inquisition which was founded to defeat them (irony at work..) and to be honest there's even 'civil war' between members of the same Ordo, let alone between fellow Inquisitors :tu:

 

Oh, that. Yes, I already know about the conflicts involving the Thorians and constant power struggles involving them, but I meant a full scale war. You can have each faction, Horusans or Thorians etc, fighting and trying to back-stab one another but that's usually cloak and dagger work or trying to manipulate others into fighting for them. Likewise fights between members of the same Ordo seem to involve the same subtlety and rarely direct tactics. Again either Espionage or Cold Wars.

 

If the Ordos Xenos or Heretics were to reveal a long standing alliance between the Malleus and a major faction of a xenos race, one which has repeatedly fought against humanity, they would have grounds to declare them excommunicate traitoris. It would probably result in very direct battles, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers shooting at one another and basically be a direct and very public war.

 

It was more this sort of thing I was talking about when I meant trigger a civil war.

 

The reason I think it doesn't come up or get mentioned a lot is that Space Marines and Guard get more screen time than Inquisitors (for obvious reasons!) so lots of the Inquisition fluff doesn't come up very often on the tabletop ;) Checking things like the novels or the Inquisitor game however, reveal a different side of the story...

 

Agreed, unfortunately most of the Inquisitor related stuff tends to be more complex than two groups trying to just kill one another or daemons trying to summon something. As a result I think Games Workshop try to avoid using them, or using them to any extent besides being a plot device, in campaigns.

 

Even the Black Library novels involving the Inquisition tends to just ignore this at times.

 

Personally, I'm all for this fluff being brought up again. In my mind it never died in the first place, especially when the Star Child idea was also rebrought up in Xenology from the Black Library. It appears as if my own models fluff is still canon even if no one else really seems to discuss the Illuminati, the Thorians, and the Inquisition *grins*

 

Okay, that I did not know about. Where was the Star Child theory mentioned in Xenology?

 

Not a retcon- and not just radicals, though its more prevalent with them.

 

The Eldar have the largest library on chaos and the demonic in the galaxy, bar none- and some inquisitors have been allowed under heavy gaurd to go and find information for some time now.

 

I stand by what I said above. Also, wasn't Czevak the only human confirmed to be allowed inside it? I thought that was the reason Ahriman chose to specifically hunt him down and break open his mind.

 

I commend Codicier Lucion for the work involved in this great list. Truly a blessing for the Resistance.

 

Hey, anything which will eventually point out just how bad a writer he is and eventually let me field Ultramarines again without an overwhelming sense of shame has my support.

[Iron Lord]

It's worth remembering that a retcon is not the same thing as a "new development".

 

A retcon is when something, presented as fact in the setting, is explicitly changed.

 

Like- in Codex Space Marines and Codex Blood Angels, the fate of M'Kar, as compared to the newest Graham McNeil novel.

 

In Codex Space Marines:

Page 40: 935.M41: M'Kar is slain by the hand of Lord Macragge, who tears the upstart Daemon Prince limb from limb.

 

In Codex Blood Angels:

Page 16: 965.M41: Rejecting M'Kar's dastardly deceptions, Mephiston throttles the life out of his captor, but not before a sinister seed of doubt worms its way into his heroic heart.

 

But- in the newest Ultramarines novel, Graham McNeil portrays M'Kar as having been imprisoned in the star fort, rather than "slain" ever since 935.M41.

 

This, is a retcon. If it was written before Codex Blood Angels came out, Codex Blood Angels can be taken as "retconning it back".

[Gundam Fan]

People seem to ignore the fact that demons can not be killed and often reappear some time after a banishment or death. the Grey Knight codex even confirms this on page 10 in the info box: "To banish a Daemon in this manner is the closest the Grey Knight can come to a lasting victory - a Daemon bodily slain will return to the mortal realm far sooner than one banished body and corrupt soul"

 

In my mind these stories about M'Kar represent the various times that the demon has incarnated and subsequently been defeated by the forces of the Imperium.

[Gree]

People seem to ignore the fact that demons can not be killed and often reappear some time after a banishment or death. the Grey Knight codex even confirms this on page 10 in the info box: "To banish a Daemon in this manner is the closest the Grey Knight can come to a lasting victory - a Daemon bodily slain will return to the mortal realm far sooner than one banished body and corrupt soul"

 

In my mind these stories about M'Kar represent the various times that the demon has incarnated and subsequently been defeated by the forces of the Imperium.

 

Except he was imrpisoned in McNeill's book, his essence bound to a core so he could not free himself. It's not banishing. Re-read his post.

[Gundam Fan]

People seem to ignore the fact that demons can not be killed and often reappear some time after a banishment or death. the Grey Knight codex even confirms this on page 10 in the info box: "To banish a Daemon in this manner is the closest the Grey Knight can come to a lasting victory - a Daemon bodily slain will return to the mortal realm far sooner than one banished body and corrupt soul"

 

In my mind these stories about M'Kar represent the various times that the demon has incarnated and subsequently been defeated by the forces of the Imperium.

 

Except he was imrpisoned in McNeill's book, his essence bound to a core so he could not free himself. It's not banishing. Re-read his post.

 

Is there a date on when M'Kar was defeated in the latest Ultramarines novel? if it was before 965 M41 I see no problem with Mepheston encountering the demon in that year. Remember also that time keeping in the Imperium is next to impossible... I'm a little sad that they don't seem to use full imperial time stamps in the codexes anymore.

[Iron Lord]

In 999.M41 (in Codex Space Marines) M'Kar attacks Ultramar- which appears to correspond to the events in McNeill's book where he is released.

 

So- he's supposed to be imprisoned, at the time he tempts Mephiston.

 

Though I'm not sure if that's McNeill retconning where M'Kar is in his novel, or Ward retconning where M'kar is in Codex Blood Angels.

 

EDIT: Codex Blood Angels came out in April 2010- The Chapter's Due was released in May 2010.

 

So one really can't blame Ward for the inconsistency, when it was McNeill that put the limits on where M'kar was, right after the codex was released.

[Son of Rawl]

This M'Kar the Reborn is the Imperial Punching bag.

 

And everytime he appears it happens to be a Ward codex where he wants to show off a new Mary Sue charecter.

[EPK]

I would say, based on this codex, that the Grey Knights are possibly no longer the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus. There's a great deal of emphasis placed on the autonomy of the Grey Knights as their own chapter, far more so than in previous background. It only says that they work with the Ordo Malleus the most because of their overlapping areas of specialty. There is no longer any mention of a Grey Knight Grand Master serving on the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition. There's nothing that explicitly states whether they are or aren't though.

 

I have to admit, I do not have the codex myself, but FB's retcon info references the page (44) where it says "As the Inquisition's chamber militant..."

 

So it's not that they aren't the Chamber Militant of the just the Malleus wing, it is that they are now the Chamber Militant for the whole Inquisition (working most closely with Malleus as you noted, but not limited to that).

 

So no, they are still not a chapter OUTSIDE of the Inquisition per se. If anything can truly be outside their power anyway :)

[Arnil]

One question i have which is a bit off topic but i feel needs to be asked...what happened to KILL THE ALIEN!?!?! Blood Angels allied with NECRONS....Imperial Guard Allied with TAU(Dark Eldar Codex) and now we have the Jokareo(Which we had before but still) and Grey Knights(FREAKING GREY KNIGHTS) Allying with the XENOS SUCM left and right! Kill the Alien! Burn the Heretic! Purge the Unclean! WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR IMPERIAL VALUES PEOPLE!

 

In fact i want to see a Codex: Alien Hunters which goes off and starts a crucade against all those who ally with Aliens! We need a counter force to all this heresy!

[Iron Lord]

While allying with aliens is a little on the Radical side for members of the Inquisition, it's legally permissible under Imperial Law for Rogue Traders to "sanction" xenos as allies.

 

So you can have a Rogue trader walking around with an Ork or a Kroot- and they're within their rights to do so, as long as it bears the mark of sanction.

 

Rogue Traders are also entitled to make alliances with xenos.

 

The Inquisition might be a bit more careful about doing so- but they still do it- the Inquisitor in the Kal Jerico comics has a Kroot henchman.

[Arnil]

Yeah this is true and i didnt mean rouge traders so much cause they have always dealt with the XENOS so good Emperor fearing citizens like ourselves dont have to. And i guess i see the Inquisition doing it cause they ARE the Emperor's will. But i mean Grey Knights??? REALLY!??!? I have to ask...i am getting the codex later today(Hopefully) so i haven't read it but just how Heretical is this Xenos allyence...

 

Also, They fight daemons. Not even heretics unless Daemons are involved...significantly. I mean what with ALL the THOUSANDS of Deamonic incursions takeing place simultainiously through the imperium i am surprised there are only 1000 dedicated to takeing them down...so why are Grey Knights now fighting heretics (A SoB job) or even being NEAR Aliens (An Ordo Xenos job)...if they want to do that then add a few 1000 members...its kinda been my understanding that Grey Knights come in Banish all the daemons and let all the rest to be cleaned up by Imperial Guard/Inquisitorial Stormtroopers or Space Marines...so why are they now the "ONLY" Ordo Millitant???

 

Still...i have to say i love the new models...i like how the DreadKnight looks...I am currently painting one for a friend...how well was it put in the codex? I mean its not like they RETCONed it in too right? Sanguinius didnt ride a Ruby and Gold Dreadknight into battle against the Daemon prince at the Gates to the Imperial Palace right?

[Iron Lord]

Their alliances are primarily against the daemonic- those alien races who have anti-daemon tech or knowledge are the ones who will ally.

 

That said, such alliances don't always hold- the Grey Knights are currently on hostile terms with the alien race that granted them certain daemon-trapping devices- so they can't replace them.

 

its kinda been my understanding that Grey Knights come in Banish all the daemons and let all the rest to be cleaned up by Imperial Guard/Inquisitorial Stormtroopers or Space Marines...so why are they now the "ONLY" Ordo Millitant???

 

In the 5E main rulebook, the Ordo Malleus are referred to as "the militant arm of the Inquisition"- so it's possible they were already going down that road.

 

Members of the other two branches of the Inquisition can be included in a Grey Knight Army- it may be a case of whenever an Inquisitor of any Ordo uncovers daemonic influence- they call in the Grey Knights then fight alongside them.

 

Still...i have to say i love the new models...i like how the DreadKnight looks...I am currently painting one for a friend...how well was it put in the codex? I mean its not like they RETCONed it in too right? Sanguinius didnt ride a Ruby and Gold Dreadknight into battle against the Daemon prince at the Gates to the Imperial Palace right?

 

Nope- it was created later. There are hints that it might be based on alien tech- but it could just as easily be ancient human tech.

[TheReclusiarch]

The one thing I reacted to was that the Grey Knights now had dealings with Xenos. I think this is totally awesome! They are both more disciplined and more free thinking than the rest of the imperium! I'm totally in love with the new backgrounds, and so are all of my friends, their friends etc, etc. Remember, people complaining on the forums tend to be more vocal than those are not (judging some thing's popularity on forums are often a bad idea!). All in all, I believe the Grey Knights fluff has been a huge success! :P

 

Hmm, I think you got most of the retcons. Either way, it's nice to see the universe evolving!