A Primarch Theory...

[Brannick]

There have been numerous threads of late that have mentioned the 'traits' of the Primarchs. We have Roboute and his logistics and tactics, we have Angron with his pride and anger - you get the picture.

 

But what of 2 and 11?

 

In my ponderings I have thought that perhaps one of 'the missing' may have been the original 'blank' - the complete opposite to Magnus so-to-speak. A Primarch that is so obscure to the warp that his essence actually dissipates anything 'warp-like', he is the ultimate blunter x1000! The Chaos Gods certainly wouldn't want such a chap trundling around the galaxy and, therefore, set their schemes in motion to topple him, cue Russ or whatever happened to take out 2 and/or 11.

 

Just a musing in terms of what one of the missing two may have had as their prime skill-set. What do you think? Can you come up with anything interesting trait-wise for 2 and 11?

 

Cheers

[Perrin]

I think your blank idea is pretty good :)

Doesnt one of the Primarchs have invisibilty? Or is that one of the existing ones, Magnus could probably be invisible if he wanted too, and Kurze is pretty much invisible when he wants to be, but stealthy rather than magical.

I want to say one could do something with water, because Vulkan = Fire and Corax/Sang = Air, but being able to use water or swim really well would be completely useless ;)

[Midgard]

Wasn't Corax the "invisible" Primarch through a form of mind clouding or some such?

[Mr. Sandbot]

I think your blank idea is pretty good <_<

Doesnt one of the Primarchs have invisibilty? Or is that one of the existing ones, Magnus could probably be invisible if he wanted too, and Kurze is pretty much invisible when he wants to be, but stealthy rather than magical.

I want to say one could do something with water, because Vulkan = Fire and Corax/Sang = Air, but being able to use water or swim really well would be completely useless

 

Supposedly Corax has that ability. Its not exactly invisibility, more so the ability to not be noticed (this was shown in the Raven's Flight audio book).

 

Personally, i think the pariah primarch idea isn't a bad one. Pariah's also have a tendency to be disliked and if a primarch has a tendency to be potentially disliked by his peers and his own legion, then I can see the potential for his destruction.

[Leonaides]

Would the Emperor make a primarch who, just by standing in the same building, completley negates his abilites... I'll say that again - Completely. No psychic ability whatsoever.

[Codicier Lucion]

Would the Emperor make a primarch who, just by standing in the same building, completley negates his abilites... I'll say that again - Completely. No psychic ability whatsoever.

 

They all had psychic powers to some extent, even the Russ. Perhaps he made them as a backup plan to take down any one of the other primarchs if they turned to chaos in the same way the Space Wolves were supposed to take down Legions. Or perhaps as a method of dealing with against full scale daemonic incursions like the Blood Angels' war on Signus Prime.

 

Or possibly, and more likely, outside interference from the things which cause untouchables to appear in the human species could have made them develop in such a way.

 

It's an old theory but a fun one to play about with and create ideas around.

[GooseDaMoose]

I like it!

 

I can't believe no one's ever thought of that before. Awesome!

 

But what about 11 then?

[Perrin]

Maybe none of the Primarchs were meant to be a Blank, so the Emperor had to kill them.

[Justin Kase]

I think your blank idea is pretty good :)

Doesnt one of the Primarchs have invisibilty? Or is that one of the existing ones, Magnus could probably be invisible if he wanted too, and Kurze is pretty much invisible when he wants to be, but stealthy rather than magical.

I want to say one could do something with water, because Vulkan = Fire and Corax/Sang = Air, but being able to use water or swim really well would be completely useless :D

 

So, Primarch 11 is... Aquaman?

 

I do like the blank idea, though I thought it was meant to be more traits like "Compassion, Anger, Curiosity" than "Fire, Air or Invisibility". Basically, fractions of one persona, as opposed to a division of super powers.

[Sons of Horus]

hasn't this thread happened before? I'm pretty sure it has been suggested MANY times in much older discussions.

[Valkyrion]

hasn't this thread happened before? I'm pretty sure it has been suggested MANY times in much older discussions.

 

Probably, but it doesn't stop it still being fun though.

 

I like the idea of one being a blank precisely because it would mess with everyone's head. Like a failsafe device. I can imagine the Emperor not being overly keen on having lunch with him, but when you are taking over the galaxy I suppose you can let a few things slide.

 

Maybe the Emperor had intended to create an entirely blank chapter. He has a chapter to fulfill every other role except dedicated psyker/daemon hunters (until the GK's, I mean). A full legion of blanks is the perfect defence from the Chaos gods who the Emperor had just betrayed.

 

Why they disappeared I have no idea. Maybe they became too blank, or their geneseed didn't take properly, resulting in a load of useless marines. Maybe they were sent into the Eye of Terror. Who knows?

[Brannick]

Is the 'trait' of Magnus his skill of sorcery? It was the anti-Magnus avenue that I was working with in terms of the concept in the opening post. When running the theory through my miniscule brain I couldn't detect a flaw in terms of the current fluff. Chaos would definitely want such a Primarch dead and I could see them weaving their mysterious ways to oust him. There could be a multitude of 'others' who wouldn't want such a being to exist either.

 

Am struggling to come up with another trait for the other missing Primarch though, hmmmm.

[Iron_Adam]

I think the 2 unknown primarchs where destroyed because the civilizations they landed on where fiercely allied to xenos species, and plainly refused to submit to the emperor. Cause the life of an imperial citizen be it human or post human, is awful. I could totally see a primarch refusing to take part in a war when the system they inhabit is 100% happy

[Epistolary Exander]

I dont think an "untouchable" primarch would affect the emperor too much. The Big E. was surrounded by sisters of silence at Nikkea & he appeared fine. The Big E. was able to used as a psychic beacon to guide transports down to the venue & extend his own psychic aura over the thousands of dignitaries including Magnus who is his arguable the second/ third most powerful psyker in the imperium.

 

It certainly is a cool idea, but wouldnt a legion of pariahs be horrifically small, numbering perhaps in the 100s? Not unless you specifically breed pariahs to feed the legion its recruits.

 

Just a thought against this idea, it has been suggested that the members of the 2nd & 11th legions were absorbed into the Ultramarines legion & there is no evidence to suggest there are/ were pariahs in there ranks. Saying this there is also no evidence to go against this theory B)

[Perrin]

Maybe just the Primarch as a Blank then, but wouldnt that mess with his marines feelings towards him? Being Blank kinda makes other people hate you a little.

[Justin Kase]

I think the 2 unknown primarchs where destroyed because the civilizations they landed on where fiercely allied to xenos species, and plainly refused to submit to the emperor. Cause the life of an imperial citizen be it human or post human, is awful. I could totally see a primarch refusing to take part in a war when the system they inhabit is 100% happy

 

Problem is, they mention that all 20 were found and reunited with their legions - which seems to indicate that they found at least some common ground.

[Master Exorcist]

hmmm.... that sound quite plausible, any ideas on what the other would be?

 

if all primarchs are supposed to represent some element of humanity then what is left? beastman?

 

while some primarchs had psychic mutations none sport any physical deformities....this could fit in to the whole purgation of records thing.....

 

any thoughts?

 

ME

[Brannick]

@ Exorcist - the mutation option was something I had pondered; as you say, it does seem to 'fit' too. A mutation can be visible or it can be very subtle.

 

@ Exander - would the marines of an 'untouchable' Primarch not inherit his trait via the geneseed, rather than having to be born with the ability? I am not too sure how it works in this regard.

[gil galed]

I think there is a decent chance that one of them was a blank. In various books I seem to remember the Emperor being described as an anathema to the warp regardless of the fact he has a huge psychic potential. As such a primarch who embodies his opposition to the warp seems fitting.

 

In regards to invisibility it's constantly talked about but I have yet to see any actual published document inferring it to be true.

 

Given what we know, that all the primarchs were found, but two of them did not take part in the heresy and were did not overtly rebel against the imperium it seems to me that there must have either been something wrong with them, or else they rebelled in some other way.

 

Although of course GW has said they left them blank so we could make our own, so really they are nothing, :)

 

~Gil ;)

[greatcrusade08]

my own theory (stolen from red dwarf) was that one of the primarches was sent spiralling back in time, being summoned by the magicks of anatolian shaman to 4000BC

[Perrin]

my own theory (stolen from red dwarf) was that one of the primarches was sent spiralling back in time, being summoned by the magicks of anatolian shaman to 4000BC

 

Where he then guided mankind through the ages, conquered Earth, and created.. himself? My head hurts.

[Mr. Sandbot]

my own theory (stolen from red dwarf) was that one of the primarches was sent spiralling back in time, being summoned by the magicks of anatolian shaman to 4000BC

 

Where he then guided mankind through the ages, conquered Earth, and created.. himself? My head hurts.

 

Holy crap thats genius. The last primarch is a fragment of the Emperor who would combine with the shamans later and become himself and then proceed to create that fragment of himself again.

[LorgarXVII17]

I personally think primarchs 2 and 11 were destroyed because they discovered something they werent supposed to, such as Chaos. There might be other theories, perhaps they died when they landed on their planets? Anything is really possible with them. I just wish GW would stop with the whole "Theyre so you can make your own legion!" thing. With loyalist chapters and traitorous warbands/chapters theres no reason to have that anymore.

[Valkyrion]

All 20 primarchs were found and all 20 primarchs and their legions fought during the Great Crusade.

The two missing legions and primarchs went missing before the Heresy started and would likely have been loyalists.

 

GW haven't pursued the 'make your own legion' line for around 20 years.

 

If one of the missing primarchs was so far removed from humanity that he was a complete and total mutant then I doubt he'd have been reuinited with his legion and the other primarchs.

 

The missing legions did not fall to chaos, or else Horus doing so wouldn't have been such a surprise.

It is hinted that one may have been destroyed by the Space Wolves (Russ at the end of Prospero Burns), that a legion was absorbed by the Ultramarines (First Heretic), but these are either highly ambiguous (Russ, for example, could have attacked another legion in the past without destroying them that we haven't heard about), or from dubious sources (a daemonic vision).

 

Dorn and Malcador don't seem to be mourning the two missing legions in Mechanicum, rather commenting on their absence.

 

I don't believe either legion was destroyed in the traditional sense, rather that either or both Primarchs with or without their legions were reassigned to something more important than the crusade and were in no position to be recalled for the Heresy.

 

All the 40k story takes place in our galaxy, so there are at least 100,000,000,000 (one hundred billion) other galaxies and thats just in our year 2000 observable universe. Imagine what else might be discoverable in 40,000 years. The scale is something that cannot ever really be properly touched on because it's too mindblowing. Up to 400,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy alone would give one or two people a lot to do.

 

With the crusade seemingly unstoppable at the time, could the Emperor not have dispatched two legions to conquer the rest of the observable universe? Expand mankinds control to everything anywhere ever? We know the Emperor is ambitious, and long before mankind came along the Galaxy had been the Empire of other races, but none had conquered the whole universe. For an immortal god like super being, what is the extent of their ambition?

[Magic Dragon]

The thought occured to me while I read the conversation between Dorn and Malcador that if it were allowed the two "missing" legions could be summoned if and when it were allowed by the Emperor. This suggested to me that perhaps these two primarchs rather than being dead are in stasis somewhere due to their supposed transgressions. I originally thought their respective legions may also be in stasis but the information presented in TFH seems to suggest that rather than being wiped out or put in stasis the surviving marines were assigned to other legions and sworn to never mention their lost primarchs again.