Grey knights...

[Eorek]

I run a jump pack heavy list with a storm raven filled with deathcompany +´mephiston

 

1: they all have force weapons...Basically my powerarmour+ feel no pain is about as durable as flak armour

2: Psykout grenades + force weapon = mephiston--->Corpse

3: their shooting is supperior to mine: bolt pistols + a few meltas vs psy cannons and S5 storm bolters

4: s8 auto cannons... my storm raven was semi afraid against normal auto cannons.

5: Vindicare assassin... Puts a hole straight through my dreadnoughs and storm raven, kills guys with meltaguns/powerfists in my squads

6: furious charge kinda looses it's edge when they have guys striking at I6(halbeard purifiers)

 

Been thinking about trading mephiston for a normal librarian/astorath + adding hammer terminators ... maybe trading in a baal pred or two sounds like a plan aswell. I've known grey knights will be able to battle us blood angels very well (and all other small elite armies).

What have you guys done to combat this new army list?: >

 

going razor + predator spam is not an option for me... I like Doa(/infantry heavy lists) :huh:

[SamaNagol]

Psy-out only works when they charge. Why would Mephiston ever be getting charged?

 

DoA really doesnt work very well vs Grey Knights. Especially with Warp Quake.

[SevenExxes]

I have an untested theory.

 

Dante has Initiative 6. Attach him to a Sanguinary Guard with an added Sanguinary Priest and on the charge the unit, in theroy, would have Initiative 7.

Now I'm not too sure if the unit can use Tactical Precision and Hit&Run techniques with the added Priest, but if so then this unit could possibly hurt some Grey Knights without too much trouble. Again, that's just a theory. If that can't work because of the added Sanguinary Priest, well it's back to the drawing board for me.

Your main force could consist of a Mech List, in theory a Razorback spam with Lascannon and Twinlinked plasma guns. Whatever you place in those transports is up to you, I don't think it would make much difference.

An Honour Guard with plasma guns might be effective, but they wouldn't have Dante leading them, so perhaps they could ride a transport until it's time to disembark and open fire. With no champion that could be 4 plasma guns using Feel No Pain for Gets Hot! mishaps.

Heavy Support could consist of Vindicators, Plasma devestators (unless I'm reading that wrong and they can only have one Plasma Cannon per squad) supported by a Sanguinary Priest so those storm bolters don't hurt so much thanks to Feel No Pain. (Of course those Strength 8 auto cannons aren't gonna be too nice) Storm Ravens with plasma cannons or Dreadnoughts with plasma cannons. I'd lean more toward the Vindicators for the demolisher cannon and its blast plate. Extra armour could help too.

 

Start with Dante and his unit on the table. That Warp Quake thingy sounds too nasty to mess with. Use the Mech units to provide cover. Remember, all Rhino variant vehicles are fast vehicles.

Try and take out that Assassin as quickly as possible with massed plasma fire. (Can they still only field one?)

I really think that a Decent of Angels (I prefer to type it out as DoA in real life means Dead on Arrival :P ) would be difficult thanks to that Warp Quake thingy.

 

But again, this is all just theory and I would like to see people point out the flaws in said theory to help refine it.

 

For Sanguinius!

~Edit~ (I spelt the Primarch's name wrong! Shame!)

[Zeller]

Here's my advice. Stop taking characters. Don't bother with priests. Don't bother taking psykers. DCD w/ talons are nasty. DC are nasty. Combine fire to eliminate a squad at a time. Predators work wonders. Just pure dakka. Consider some fast vehicles to move up and remove his servo skulls. DC will kill GK grand masters.

 

Multi charge a squad. My only opponents have been pure TDA with a NDK.

[Baba Lem]

Your average Baal Pred should kill a Vindicare with one swoop of its guns.

 

I've been running lots of armour. A vindicator to scare. Around two preds, an LRC with assault terminators.

 

If you go last, you might as well hammer and shield them.

[Emperors Immortals]

In short - Dreads'n'Preds.

 

Drop some dreads in teh back lines (dc are fine) and keep some preds midfield, the GK have a fairly short firing range (24" is about the longest).

 

Try to outdistance them and really pile in against single units, like 2 RaS for every assault at least.

 

Id personally found a fair amount of bolter fire will do the job in my 2 games so far, just concentrate on a unit at a time.

 

Good luck.

[Judaz]

Here's my advice. Stop taking characters. Don't bother with priests. Don't bother taking psykers. DCD w/ talons are nasty. DC are nasty. Combine fire to eliminate a squad at a time. Predators work wonders. Just pure dakka. Consider some fast vehicles to move up and remove his servo skulls. DC will kill GK grand masters.

 

Multi charge a squad. My only opponents have been pure TDA with a NDK.

Take psykers, but use them in a defensive way. Psychic hood does wonders against GK. Put the librarian in a transport and use only self buffing powers and you should be fine.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Gun them down with baals and vindicators, mop up the rest with CC squads.

 

And even with those halberds, the normal GK squad has one attack per model(unless they have Countercharge) and some of our ICs can strike before them, and some non-ICs as well.

 

How can any soul determined to serve the Emperor's will feel fear in any way? We are the Blood Angels. Angels of Death. Fear Incarnate! It's them who should fear our wrath!

 

We've been around before those whimps with all their ooohtsey-tootsey Force Weapons, smiting the enemies of the Emperor since the Scouring Era! We are the most artistic chapter in the Imperium, our weaponry crafted with unmatched skill, our fury feared all throughout the galaxy. Our Primarch kicked demons' :sweat: even before anyone came up with the idea of those mindwiping snobs!

Our chapter fights the most important battles in the history of humanity, only to preserve the citizens of the Imperium from the threats and of course to preserve humanity itself.

Our skills with weapons is unmatched, our tanks are the fastest you'll get in a Space Marine army. The light of our Primarch and the Emperor shines upon us, and with righteous wrath and swords of steel we will call victory over the battlefields!

 

 

Um yeah. Jokes aside, they die like normal marines. Even those vindicare assassins can die - use your baals to kill them. Use psykers for the hood, it is invaluable. Get rid of Paladins.

Shoot the Dreadknight, that thing's a :lol:. After that, it's over.

 

Snorri

[d503]

played against GK today.

 

My list:

redeemer/mm, termies (chainfists), reclusiarch

tacs in rhino

tacs in rhino

10 man assault squad with astrorath

10 scouts with powerfist

vindicator

TLLC dread

 

his:

grandmaster

corteaz, with melta retinue in chimera

5 henchmen, 3 meltas, chimera

5 henchmen, 3 meltas, chimera

3 x venerable riflemen

rifleman

5 man interceptor squad

5 man GK squad, 4 GK flamers in razorback

5 man GK squad, 4 GK flamers in razorback

 

Everything was proxied - most of his marines were blood angels, but he was a nice guy and the hobby is crazy expensive here in China so i didn't mind. The list was very, very tough though. making his venerable dreads troops was just insane - they are venerable, and have a psychic power that makes them ignore shaken and stunned results.

 

He won by one objective, and I had very few things left on the table at the end; but then again I am primarily a painter and a hobbyist and this was an absolute power-army.

 

I really can't think of much that can stand up to that combination of units, bar a wall of power armour. There were 5 guys in the store, and every one of them was talking about thier new grey knights army.

 

Dunno, I just hope that there is a way to get a fair fight against these guys, cos the list so far looks very, very powerful to me.

[SamaNagol]

I played a 1750pt game today against Draigo, Paladins and JumpKnights. I had 4 MEltaBikes and 2 Vindicators as well as Mephiston, 5 DC, a Furioso and 3 RAS with Melta and PW in a TL AC Razor.

 

It was Kill Points. When the 2nd DreadKnight went down in turn 3 and he had nothing come in from reserve yet I thought it would be a tabling.

 

It almost was. Come the end of the game he only had Draigo left on the table. But that meant I had only caused 4 KPs. And he caused 5. I was gutted. The number of 5+ saves he made was OBSCEEEEENE. I made a couple of mistakes.... sending a Furioso Dread into combat to finish off a DreadKnight on 2 wounds which ended up getting slagged, and disembarking 5 DC 2nd turn to assault another Dreadknight with Mephiston only to have them run off and get butchered by Draigo's squad for a free KP.

 

Dont underestimate how hard some of these things are to kill off. Thats my best advice.

[1Drop]

Gun them down with baals and vindicators, mop up the rest with CC squads.

 

And even with those halberds, the normal GK squad has one attack per model(unless they have Countercharge) and some of our ICs can strike before them, and some non-ICs as well.

 

How can any soul determined to serve the Emperor's will feel fear in any way? We are the Blood Angels. Angels of Death. Fear Incarnate! It's them who should fear our wrath!

 

We've been around before those whimps with all their ooohtsey-tootsey Force Weapons, smiting the enemies of the Emperor since the Scouring Era! We are the most artistic chapter in the Imperium, our weaponry crafted with unmatched skill, our fury feared all throughout the galaxy. Our Primarch kicked demons' <_< even before anyone came up with the idea of those mindwiping snobs!

Our chapter fights the most important battles in the history of humanity, only to preserve the citizens of the Imperium from the threats and of course to preserve humanity itself.

Our skills with weapons is unmatched, our tanks are the fastest you'll get in a Space Marine army. The light of our Primarch and the Emperor shines upon us, and with righteous wrath and swords of steel we will call victory over the battlefields!

 

 

Um yeah. Jokes aside, they die like normal marines. Even those vindicare assassins can die - use your baals to kill them. Use psykers for the hood, it is invaluable. Get rid of Paladins.

Shoot the Dreadknight, that thing's a <_<. After that, it's over.

 

Snorri

 

As I read this I seen you as a Blood Angel General rallying your troops against the oncoming grey knight threat, I love it, if I was a battle brother in your company I would have fought with fearlessness, compassion and love for emperor and sanguinius.

[Zagman]

I play both armies.

 

Unfortunately dreads cannot be scoring with The Grand Strategy. Vehicles are listed as exceptions as the Troops scoring rule. Took me a couple of games before I realized this. Once I reread all the applicable rules, it is pretty clear that this is indeed the case. Scoring Dread Knights in a different story.

 

Firstly, I do not feel that the BA should have too much trouble with the GK. Granted, some of the old tactics are much less effective, ie FNP bubbles and to an extent Furious Charge. Though, FNP makes a shooting war with the GK much easier.

 

Rules to fight GK by:

Do not assault halberds, especially when they are equipped on purifiers.

Keep a hood on the board.

Don't go assault crazy for the first couple of turns. GK have a huge issue with long range firepower. Only their PsyRifleDreads provide reliable long ranged firepower. You should be able to out shoot them at range. When they close, assault them.

Kill the Vindicare immediately.

They die just as easily as normal marines and do not have access to FNP(Paladins aside, and anyone fielding an Apothecary is foolish).

Mephiston in truth is not as scared of the GK as most would think. Yes the possibility to be IDed by NFWs is present, but with Wings and Fleet Mephiston should do the charging and striking first. Also, it is rather difficult for GKSS/GKIS/GKPSs to wound Mephiston, needing 4s, 6s, LD9, 50/50 to beat Mephiston's Hood, or 4s, LD9, 50/50 Hood, 5s. I ran Mephiston against a pretty tough GK list ran by a very competent general. Assaulted a unit of paladins killing all of them, I then proceeded to get assaulted by a 10man strike squad. Killed them to a man and Mephiston proceeded to be shot to death by psycannons as he had been wounded and drew alot of attention early.

Warp Quakes makes DOA rather difficult to pull off, start jump troops on the board, or be prepared to drop them in save zones. Shouldn't be too difficult if you have a hood on the board.

Did I mention KILL THE VINDICARE!

[Sanguinarian]

I played a 1750pt game today against Draigo, Paladins and JumpKnights. I had 4 MEltaBikes and 2 Vindicators as well as Mephiston, 5 DC, a Furioso and 3 RAS with Melta and PW in a TL AC Razor.

 

It was Kill Points. When the 2nd DreadKnight went down in turn 3 and he had nothing come in from reserve yet I thought it would be a tabling.

 

It almost was. Come the end of the game he only had Draigo left on the table. But that meant I had only caused 4 KPs. And he caused 5. I was gutted. The number of 5+ saves he made was OBSCEEEEENE. I made a couple of mistakes.... sending a Furioso Dread into combat to finish off a DreadKnight on 2 wounds which ended up getting slagged, and disembarking 5 DC 2nd turn to assault another Dreadknight with Mephiston only to have them run off and get butchered by Draigo's squad for a free KP.

 

Dont underestimate how hard some of these things are to kill off. Thats my best advice.

 

If DC are Fearless, how did they run off? Or did they first kill the NDK with Meph and then Draigo's squad was the next closest target? That would've been a sight to see - 5 DC bringing pain to an NDK!!! Please say it's so. :rolleyes:

[SamaNagol]

The joke was Mephiston killed it on his own. And the DC didn't even get to swing. Then Mephiston took down the next Dreadknight. DC didn't even get to make it into combat. And then they ran headlong towards Draigo and 6 Paladins and got shot to bits until they made it across the board only to get sliced up in fast order.

 

Mephiston did BRILLIANTLY though. Took down 2 Dreadknights and then killed 5 Paladins, before finally dying to Draigo and his I1 Grenades who had left the squad to deal with something else then charged.

 

Draigo is HARD TO KILL.

[d503]

Unfortunately dreads cannot be scoring with The Grand Strategy. Vehicles are listed as exceptions as the Troops scoring rule. Took me a couple of games before I realized this. Once I reread all the applicable rules, it is pretty clear that this is indeed the case. Scoring Dread Knights in a different story.

 

Thank you.

 

Really.

 

If I had known that yesterday it would have been a draw.

 

Cheating git.

[SamaNagol]

Vindicators and Melta are great against paladins. Assault cannon are great against the Power Armoured Grey Knights. You can definitely out shoot Grey Knights with ease, and just ensure you stay out of combat for as long as possible.

[gundog8324]

Unfortunately dreads cannot be scoring with The Grand Strategy. Vehicles are listed as exceptions as the Troops scoring rule. Took me a couple of games before I realized this. Once I reread all the applicable rules, it is pretty clear that this is indeed the case. Scoring Dread Knights in a different story.

 

Thank you.

 

Really.

 

If I had known that yesterday it would have been a draw.

 

Cheating git.

 

 

It will need to be FAQed

 

An army’s scoring units are all the units that come from

its Troops allowance. The presence of other units may

deny an objective to the enemy, but only Troops can

control it. There are a few exceptions, however, when a

unit of Troops does not count as scoring:

• If it is a vehicle.

• If it has the Swarm special rule.

• If it has a special rule specifying it never counts as a

scoring unit.

From the BRB

 

According to the BRB The Dreads would not score because

1. They are not Troops

2. Even if they were Troops it specifically says Troop Choice Vehicles do not score.

 

However, The Dreads do score because the special rule is assigned to them that they score, and similar to Ravenwing Attack Squad Tornadoes the codex specifically says they score, and since it has not been FAQed otherwise and Codex special rule>BRB rules/exceptions.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Codex always trumps the rulebook but I don't think the Grand Strategy applies to any walkers. The Dreadknight is a monstrous creature.

 

G :)

[d503]

Codex always trumps the rulebook but I don't think the Grand Strategy applies to any walkers. The Dreadknight is a monstrous creature.

 

G :)

 

What is the wording of the grand strategy rule? does it say that vehicles can be made scoring, like it does for ravenwing speeders?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It specifically calls out which units can be selected and vehicles is not one of them.

 

G

[Ranwulf]

Assault them.

 

DoA is good, but you shouldn't rely on them unless you use Vanguard Veterans, which are quite nasty against the Knights.

 

Look, just play smart, don't go around assaulting things because you are bloodthirsty.

 

BA have more then enough weapons to take of any enemy, even in CC. Grey Knights are not CC specialists like BA, so you can win. They domn't have enough attacks, regular WS, no Feel No Pain, no Furious Charge, they do have Force Weapons, sure, but they can't rely on them to win, because you supposobly got some Librarian with you.

 

Oh, and Astorath is a destroyer of ANY GK.

 

Ran

[Baba Lem]

You won't say that again after your first run-in with rad grenades and psychotropic grenades. -_-

[Cleon]

Codex always trumps the rulebook but I don't think the Grand Strategy applies to any walkers. The Dreadknight is a monstrous creature.

 

G -_-

 

What is the wording of the grand strategy rule? does it say that vehicles can be made scoring, like it does for ravenwing speeders?

 

It does say you can choose walkers though.

 

However the rule states "The nominated units can claim objectives as if they were Troops". if its a walker (and thus couldn't score even if it was Troops) then the rule says nothing to imply that it would be scoring.

[SamaNagol]

Dreadnoughts can be made scoring using Grand Strategy.

[Bat33.1]

Assault them.

 

DoA is good, but you shouldn't rely on them unless you use Vanguard Veterans, which are quite nasty against the Knights.

 

Look, just play smart, don't go around assaulting things because you are bloodthirsty.

 

BA have more then enough weapons to take of any enemy, even in CC. Grey Knights are not CC specialists like BA, so you can win. They domn't have enough attacks, regular WS, no Feel No Pain, no Furious Charge, they do have Force Weapons, sure, but they can't rely on them to win, because you supposobly got some Librarian with you.

 

Oh, and Astorath is a destroyer of ANY GK.

 

Ran

 

DoA is not so good if the GK player gets the first turn and runs 24" warp quake bubbles around the table with instant deep strike mishap roll. Why would you want to get into cc with them early anyway? Just stand back and shoot them to death.

 

As I see it BA lists will have to adapt to the new meta game that arrived with GK, more templates, more dakka, and it may be time to add some devastators into the list with las/plas.