Grey knights...

[SamaNagol]

The thing is, Grey Knights lists can be SO varied that you can't plan to face 'Grey Knights'.

 

Vindicators work against everything. They are great. They deny everything an armour save and will Instant Death paladins too. Having a Psychic Hood on the board can help you make the GK less effective.

 

And ALWAYS kill the Vindicare immediately.

 

Other than that, you could be facing against massed Henchmen, big units of Death Cultists, Paladins and Draigo, Purifiers and Crowe, Dreadknights, Venerable Dreads.... all manner of different units which are all viable.

[1Drop]

More and more I'm not liking the sound of a battle with the GK, sit back and shoot them to bits sounds good but melta has to get close :D and melta is their main weakness, multimelta has a bit more range so my attack bikes should do ok against them (I hope) and I'm gonna have to get some more melta cannon I think.

[Ranwulf]

You won't say that again after your first run-in with rad grenades and psychotropic grenades. :D

 

I already did. One of the main advantages of playing a Blood Angel is that Death Company Dreads, or even regular Furiosos inside of Stormravens allows me quite the ability to choose who I fight.

 

Oh, and the Vindicare does not survive an assault by ANY of the dreadnoughts. Also, don't overestimate the Vindicare, you SHOULD take care of him, because he can be quite annoying, but in the end, you still got you cover saves, he still needs Line of Sight, he CAN misses(he did in my first game, and that was over for him) even tough that's quite unlikely, he does not fight well in missions with Dawn of War.

 

Remember, the Grey Knights are WAY to over specialized, because if you make them all pump'd up they cost bloody as hell, which they still die like marines in shooting phase. So you can choose your enemies.

 

For instance, in my first game, I got two Stormravens one with Astorath and Terminators(who got Furious Charge and Fearless), another one got Lemartes and Death Company(without JP) more two Dreads, a Librarian and a DC. I also got some Assulat Marines, I am not sure, just that I did Combat Squad them.

 

I fought those annoying Rifleman Dreads, two regulars Grey Knights squads a Vindicare Assasin and Draigo with some Paladins coming in a Raven.

 

I didn't deploy a THING, the less he shoots me, the better. After his first turn which was sending his Raven forwards, we got my second turn.

 

Both of my Stormravens arrived and made their flatout. I shot his first dread with PotMS Multimelta. Destroyed the thing. My second Stormraven shot the other Rifleman dread, and got him a weapon destroyed.

 

His second turn he sent his Raven towards mine with Lemartes, and tried to shoot it to death with all missiles, lascannons and multi melta. Well, he missed 3 of his Missiles, the Multi Melta was too far away to actually being able to double the dice and the lascannons got a 4 that I was able to cover save. His vindicare shot my other Stormraven with Astorath, but when he hitted, he penetrated and I got my cover save. Now, the rifleman dred left shot his two Autocannon shots, but one missed and the other did a glancing hit, that I did not cover save, but got a weapon destroyed(the Lascannon).

 

Now, my third turn was MY retribution, first my Assault Marines DS, but one of them was destroyed for being to close to one of the Rhinos. The other one landed behind the dread and my Stormravens got close to the Grey Knights squads, allowing me do dissembark all things. The Assault Marines destroyed the second twin linked auto cannon(damn, that thing just didn't die), one of the Stormravens shot the one carrying Draigo getting the thing Immobilized, the other one got one of the Rhinos a Weapon destroyed, the second Raven open fired and destroyed the Rhino with Grey Knights. In the Assault Phase the DC dread meltgunned the Rhino and popped it open, allowing Astorath to happily assault with his termies and the dread, while Lemartes had his fun assauling the Knights.

 

Astorath killed three of the Knights. They tried to use theirs hammerhands, only to be stopped by my Furioso Librarian(LD9 against LD 10 Makes ALOT of difference), but they hitted of eight attacks, seven and wounded five. I lost one SS/TH and one LC, but since he didn't get a TH(it was too expensive for him), my DC Dread killed everything without even lefting some scrap to the termies.

 

He did however made the second squad Hammerhand, but thankfully, Lemartes killed four of the enemy before they had the chance of killing more DCs, and it did not made a difference to the Furioso Librarian the Psykout Grenades, since he was already charging in Init 1. He did however killed three of my DCs and wounded Lemartes(a thing he quite disliked later), so the rest of the DC mopped up them.

 

Now, I won both CC, and he was sending his Termies after me in the Third Turn, thanfully, I was quite away to him to do anything. The Vindicare however was annoyed and tried to outright kill Lemartes, hitting with the Exitus and wounding it, but lucky for me, I still got the Inv. Save, which I made(he, Lemartes is known in my LG Club as pretty much unkillable since my game against wolves where he made ALL the Inv. Saves, besides one, where he got crazy). The last Dread launched an assault against the Assault Marines, thanfully, he had no weapon, so we got stucked in combat.

 

The fourth turn was the Stormraven retribution. Both of them moved 6" and shot everything they had at the Paladins. Well, 8 Hellfury missiles, 2 Multi Meltas and one Plasma Cannon made sure to take 4 of the Pallys, but Draigo got all his saves... My DC dread was charging towards them, while Astorath and the Termies were positioned in such a way that I could attack after they destroyed the Dread. My Librarian flew and got in the front of the Vindicare Assasin, while Lemartes run after the Assasin, but didn't have enough distance to do anything. So in CC, my DC dread charged while the Librarian stayed in CC with the Assasin(seriously, 3 Lighting Reflexes Inv. Saves, WTH?). His dread got an immobilized with a good punch from my Assault Sgt. I left my DC dread in the open, couldn't charge, but that was not the point of the dread in that moment.

 

His next turn was pretty much moving Draigo and friends toward my Dread, hoping killing him. Which they did, after a good Hammer blow, but not without the Halberd paladin losing of of his wounds. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention, but the Storm Raven destroyed one of my others while Immobilized in the previous turn, and then destroyed one of the weapons of my Dread in this turn. The vindicare did another three of his Inv. Saves, truly annoying me.

 

Astorath and his friends got close to Draigo alongside Lemartes, however I was far away enough so that he couldn't charge my squad. My last stormraven moved 24" and shot Draigo with his Multi Melta, but he made his save. The Dread then finnaly took out the Vindicare Assasin, making 1 Inv save, but failing another.

 

Now, his turn he "danced" his squad and shot dead one of my LC termies(damn you TDA...).

 

In the end I won, mostly because I rightfully chose what to do, I got some luck, and seriously, he spent WAY too much in the Paladins.

 

Now, bear with me, this is an example of my first game with them, remember, you STILL are the best Marines army to be able to choose his

enemies. And of course, killing them.

 

Oh, and Draigo Grand Strategy was giving Counter Attack to the Paladins, since he knew I was not going to have anything in ground for long.

 

Ran

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I missed that... Walkers are indeed on the list. Pretty cool for sure.

 

:)

 

G :D

 

 

 

 

Codex always trumps the rulebook but I don't think the Grand Strategy applies to any walkers. The Dreadknight is a monstrous creature.

 

G :P

 

What is the wording of the grand strategy rule? does it say that vehicles can be made scoring, like it does for ravenwing speeders?

 

It does say you can choose walkers though.

 

However the rule states "The nominated units can claim objectives as if they were Troops". if its a walker (and thus couldn't score even if it was Troops) then the rule says nothing to imply that it would be scoring.

[1Drop]

You won't say that again after your first run-in with rad grenades and psychotropic grenades. <_<

 

I already did. One of the main advantages of playing a Blood Angel is that Death Company Dreads, or even regular Furiosos inside of Stormravens allows me quite the ability to choose who I fight.

 

Oh, and the Vindicare does not survive an assault by ANY of the dreadnoughts. Also, don't overestimate the Vindicare, you SHOULD take care of him, because he can be quite annoying, but in the end, you still got you cover saves, he still needs Line of Sight, he CAN misses(he did in my first game, and that was over for him) even tough that's quite unlikely, he does not fight well in missions with Dawn of War.

 

Remember, the Grey Knights are WAY to over specialized, because if you make them all pump'd up they cost bloody as hell, which they still die like marines in shooting phase. So you can choose your enemies.

 

For instance, in my first game, I got two Stormravens one with Astorath and Terminators(who got Furious Charge and Fearless), another one got Lemartes and Death Company(without JP) more two Dreads, a Librarian and a DC. I also got some Assulat Marines, I am not sure, just that I did Combat Squad them.

 

I fought those annoying Rifleman Dreads, two regulars Grey Knights squads a Vindicare Assasin and Draigo with some Paladins coming in a Raven.

 

I didn't deploy a THING, the less he shoots me, the better. After his first turn which was sending his Raven forwards, we got my second turn.

 

Both of my Stormravens arrived and made their flatout. I shot his first dread with PotMS Multimelta. Destroyed the thing. My second Stormraven shot the other Rifleman dread, and got him a weapon destroyed.

 

His second turn he sent his Raven towards mine with Lemartes, and tried to shoot it to death with all missiles, lascannons and multi melta. Well, he missed 3 of his Missiles, the Multi Melta was too far away to actually being able to double the dice and the lascannons got a 4 that I was able to cover save. His vindicare shot my other Stormraven with Astorath, but when he hitted, he penetrated and I got my cover save. Now, the rifleman dred left shot his two Autocannon shots, but one missed and the other did a glancing hit, that I did not cover save, but got a weapon destroyed(the Lascannon).

 

Now, my third turn was MY retribution, first my Assault Marines DS, but one of them was destroyed for being to close to one of the Rhinos. The other one landed behind the dread and my Stormravens got close to the Grey Knights squads, allowing me do dissembark all things. The Assault Marines destroyed the second twin linked auto cannon(damn, that thing just didn't die), one of the Stormravens shot the one carrying Draigo getting the thing Immobilized, the other one got one of the Rhinos a Weapon destroyed, the second Raven open fired and destroyed the Rhino with Grey Knights. In the Assault Phase the DC dread meltgunned the Rhino and popped it open, allowing Astorath to happily assault with his termies and the dread, while Lemartes had his fun assauling the Knights.

 

Astorath killed three of the Knights. They tried to use theirs hammerhands, only to be stopped by my Furioso Librarian(LD9 against LD 10 Makes ALOT of difference), but they hitted of eight attacks, seven and wounded five. I lost one SS/TH and one LC, but since he didn't get a TH(it was too expensive for him), my DC Dread killed everything without even lefting some scrap to the termies.

 

He did however made the second squad Hammerhand, but thankfully, Lemartes killed four of the enemy before they had the chance of killing more DCs, and it did not made a difference to the Furioso Librarian the Psykout Grenades, since he was already charging in Init 1. He did however killed three of my DCs and wounded Lemartes(a thing he quite disliked later), so the rest of the DC mopped up them.

 

Now, I won both CC, and he was sending his Termies after me in the Third Turn, thanfully, I was quite away to him to do anything. The Vindicare however was annoyed and tried to outright kill Lemartes, hitting with the Exitus and wounding it, but lucky for me, I still got the Inv. Save, which I made(he, Lemartes is known in my LG Club as pretty much unkillable since my game against wolves where he made ALL the Inv. Saves, besides one, where he got crazy). The last Dread launched an assault against the Assault Marines, thanfully, he had no weapon, so we got stucked in combat.

 

The fourth turn was the Stormraven retribution. Both of them moved 6" and shot everything they had at the Paladins. Well, 8 Hellfury missiles, 2 Multi Meltas and one Plasma Cannon made sure to take 4 of the Pallys, but Draigo got all his saves... My DC dread was charging towards them, while Astorath and the Termies were positioned in such a way that I could attack after they destroyed the Dread. My Librarian flew and got in the front of the Vindicare Assasin, while Lemartes run after the Assasin, but didn't have enough distance to do anything. So in CC, my DC dread charged while the Librarian stayed in CC with the Assasin(seriously, 3 Lighting Reflexes Inv. Saves, WTH?). His dread got an immobilized with a good punch from my Assault Sgt. I left my DC dread in the open, couldn't charge, but that was not the point of the dread in that moment.

 

His next turn was pretty much moving Draigo and friends toward my Dread, hoping killing him. Which they did, after a good Hammer blow, but not without the Halberd paladin losing of of his wounds. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention, but the Storm Raven destroyed one of my others while Immobilized in the previous turn, and then destroyed one of the weapons of my Dread in this turn. The vindicare did another three of his Inv. Saves, truly annoying me.

 

Astorath and his friends got close to Draigo alongside Lemartes, however I was far away enough so that he couldn't charge my squad. My last stormraven moved 24" and shot Draigo with his Multi Melta, but he made his save. The Dread then finnaly took out the Vindicare Assasin, making 1 Inv save, but failing another.

 

Now, his turn he "danced" his squad and shot dead one of my LC termies(damn you TDA...).

 

In the end I won, mostly because I rightfully chose what to do, I got some luck, and seriously, he spent WAY too much in the Paladins.

 

Now, bear with me, this is an example of my first game with them, remember, you STILL are the best Marines army to be able to choose his

enemies. And of course, killing them.

 

Oh, and Draigo Grand Strategy was giving Counter Attack to the Paladins, since he knew I was not going to have anything in ground for long.

 

Ran

 

 

That's good news to me bro, I plan on running 10 DC, DC Dread and lemartes in a SR and 5 cc terminators (2 LC 3 TH/SS) and sang priest and Chaplin (maybe astorath) with libbie dread in a second SR

 

So you have two very similar units and hearing that they dished out so much pain is sweet music to my ears.

[Bat33.1]

His second turn he sent his Raven towards mine with Lemartes, and tried to shoot it to death with all missiles, lascannons and multi melta. Well, he missed 3 of his Missiles, the Multi Melta was too far away to actually being able to double the dice and the lascannons got a 4 that I was able to cover save.

 

If I recall correctly melta doesn't get a second dice against a SR due to the 'ceramite plating' rule.

 

It's just a shame GW don't add the 'ceramite plating' as an option for the LR as per the FW rules for the LR Achilles as it would make GW's ultimate space marine tank more of an option with so much melta around under 5th.

[1Drop]

His second turn he sent his Raven towards mine with Lemartes, and tried to shoot it to death with all missiles, lascannons and multi melta. Well, he missed 3 of his Missiles, the Multi Melta was too far away to actually being able to double the dice and the lascannons got a 4 that I was able to cover save.

 

If I recall correctly melta doesn't get a second dice against a SR due to the 'ceramite plating' rule.

 

It's just a shame GW don't add the 'ceramite plating' as an option for the LR as per the FW rules for the LR Achilles as it would make GW's ultimate space marine tank more of an option with so much melta around under 5th.

 

Yeah is that the FW LR with the extra armour? It's really good, I think I may order one of the LR's off their. I really want a thunderhawk but they are like 300 quid!

[Kastellan Kong]

I run a jump pack heavy list with a storm raven filled with deathcompany +´mephiston

 

I don't want to be a kill joy, but Death Company and Mephiston wont fit in the same Storm Raven. Mephiston isn't an independent character and can't join a squad. And since you can't embark two squads in one transport I really don't see how you're getting around this.

[Zagman]

I run a jump pack heavy list with a storm raven filled with deathcompany +´mephiston

 

I don't want to be a kill joy, but Death Company and Mephiston wont fit in the same Storm Raven. Mephiston isn't an independent character and can't join a squad. And since you can't embark two squads in one transport I really don't see how you're getting around this.

I think he meant (DC in SR) + Mephiston. Thats the way I read it.

[Kastellan Kong]

I think he meant (DC in SR) + Mephiston. Thats the way I read it.

 

Aye, probably right! Had to check anyway :D

[Red Fury]

Well the Gay Knights are changing up my list. That Dante+SG+SP combo unit of doom just got hit by the nerf stick, err...halberd. A cheap unit of halberds is going to totally destroy anything you charge into it, including I5 SGuards with 2+ armor. With 5 guys there is likely to be nothing left to attack back after all the I6 attacks are done. These GK can take a 250 point squad of ten marines all with halberds, give them counter attack and boom, 20 I6 PW attacks, ouch. Hell, terminators would be only 200 points for 5 getting 15 attacks with counter-charge. Oh and both can use hammerhand to get the +1S....jeez.

 

I'm thinking of adding storm shields to my VV and making up a new HQ unit consisting of a Reclusiarch with a HG kitted our with shields claws and a hammer. If we want to hold onto the title of CC champ, we need more survivable units.

 

Remember, the Grey Knights are WAY to over specialized

Really? what's so specialized about a marine squad all with storm bolters and S5 power weapons...for 100 points. Or put them all in termi armor and add a +1A for another 100. Massed grey knights is going to be tough. I think it will be easier to deal with all the new toys they have, it's the troop choices that are making me worry.

[1Drop]

:'( this is so sad, have GW made an army that is too good? I know they have been around for a while now but until recently I hadn't stepped foot in a GW store since 2002 so they are new to me... I'm starting to think that they are invincible and unless you play someone that isn't as good a general as you, you're going to get your backside handed to you. I don't like the sound of this at all.

 

So ok I understand that GK don't like melta (I mean who does like their face melted off) and that they can be out shot due to LR inferiority to most but we are a CC orientated force so how am I supposed to layeth the smack down on these silver ponces up close and personal?

[SamaNagol]

Because Blood Angels are not really an assault army.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

:'( this is so sad, have GW made an army that is too good?

GK’s are by no means “too good” I only reserve that title for IG mech/vets & thunderwolf cav but I digress.

 

BA players who believe they can dominate every game in close combat will find yet another army that does it better. The basic brute force approach will not work vs. GK’s any better than it works against Daemons. Coincidently, defeating both armies will be somewhat similar in the approach.

 

GK’s are mostly a medium ranged, medium mobility, monster close combat army. They will be few in number and are really just high cost marines with lots of tricks. As stated, everything that removes MEQ’s from the table works just as well vs. GK’s but the average trooper is a ton more expensive per model.

 

Just like Codex: DH, every loss they take is a serious one and a considerable setback. GK players are going to have to be very careful as per what they risk. As such, you don’t have to do that much damage to them to cripple their advance.

 

BA’s are mostly medium to long ranged, highly mobile, good close combat army. To make up the difference, GK’s will need to advance down table every game. Like all armies reliant on close combat, they have to eat incoming fire every step of the way. As a fast army, BA’s can backpedal the approach and maximize fire the whole way. Likewise, all advancing armies are vulnerable to assets held in reserves. Reserve units that enter from the table edge will be in prime range for quality shooting & same turn assaults.

 

Remember, you will win more games exploiting an enemy’s weaknesses than merely countering their strengths. Never try to beat an opponent at their own game. Force them to play your game. In a 40K context, mobile armies can accomplish this much easier than slower armies.

 

Da ‘ed onez go fasta, -OMG

[Zagman]

:'( this is so sad, have GW made an army that is too good? I know they have been around for a while now but until recently I hadn't stepped foot in a GW store since 2002 so they are new to me... I'm starting to think that they are invincible and unless you play someone that isn't as good a general as you, you're going to get your backside handed to you. I don't like the sound of this at all.

 

So ok I understand that GK don't like melta (I mean who does like their face melted off) and that they can be out shot due to LR inferiority to most but we are a CC orientated force so how am I supposed to layeth the smack down on these silver ponces up close and personal?

 

Grey knights are tough, but can be beaten. I play them, and against them. There are a couple of things to watch.

 

Halberds: Only will be seen on purifiers, not points effecient in other setting. If they are running purifiers it is either a low model count Crowe force, or they are using up their elite slots so less likely to see the vindicare or VenPsyRifleDreads. Pufifier forces lack long ranged AT. Do not charge them, they'll devastate you. Though, most times they will have a hammer and up to 4 psycannons, meaning you may only face 10 halberd strikes, so you'll lose 3 before you can strike(if they get hammerhand off). If they are loaded up on psycannons assault, if not, sit back and shoot them staying out of assault range. Psycannons are nasty and likely to do more damage to you then a couple of halberds. If they have halberds on GKSS/GKIS, your opponent isn't being very efficient. Assault, they won't be able to deal enough wounds to scare you.

 

And they only have countercharge if they have a GM and choose that squad. Unlikely to see this very often as there are better uses for The Grand Strategy.

 

GK only have two options for reliable long range support, PsyRifleDreads and the vindicare. The vindicare can easily be killed, just shoot him, he'll die. The PsyRifleDreads can be a real pain if they are Venerable, though most opponents won't run them as such due to a cramped elites section and the cost. Regular PsyRifleDreads die just like any other AV12.\

 

A single psychic hood really ruins the GreyKnights day. I even still run Mephiston against them. So long as you aren't being charged by any ICs it is unlikely he'll die very easily.

 

FNP bubbles still have their uses, just not in CC. They make trading shots with the GK much easier.

 

GKs are cool with pretty toys, the'll die just like any other marine, but with a more hefty hit in points.

[SamaNagol]

Remember, you will win more games exploiting an enemy’s weaknesses than merely countering their strengths. Never try to beat an opponent at their own game. Force them to play your game. In a 40K context, mobile armies can accomplish this much easier than slower armies.

 

Quoted for truth. I firmly believe Mech BA beats GK soundly unless you roll below average dice. Being able to move your Vindicators, Bikes, Predators and Razorbacks 12" every turn and still fire is priceless against an army that is paying points passively for every model having a Force Weapon and wants to be up close with you after softening you up with medium strength/weak AP ranged weapons.

 

You can out-maneuvre Grey Knights and bring a weight of numbers against their smaller body count.

 

Of course facing a Henchmen build is completely different. I'd assault the Acolytes/Jokaero all day, and twice on weekends whilst Assault Cannon/Bolter/Flaming the Death Cultists to....death.

[1Drop]

Remember, you will win more games exploiting an enemy’s weaknesses than merely countering their strengths. Never try to beat an opponent at their own game. Force them to play your game. In a 40K context, mobile armies can accomplish this much easier than slower armies.

 

Da ‘ed onez go fasta, -OMG

 

I've been waiting for someone to say something inspirational so I could quote them in my sig and you're it, haha, thanks bro, that's some wisdom!!

[Volchek]

Plasma. Lots of Plasma. And Tac Sqds or Assault Sqds with Plasma Gun and Plasma Cannon with Razorbacks with LasPlas, in combat sqds.

 

4 Plasma Cannon templates from a Dev Sqd will ruin a GK squad pretty quickly, and with a 36" range....

 

And Sternguard, don't forget the Sternguard with special issue ammo and 2 LasCannons or Plasma Cannon.

 

Spread around some Sang Priest for FNP bubbles and wear them down with fire before they assault you.

[Ranwulf]

Remember, the Grey Knights are WAY to over specialized

Really? what's so specialized about a marine squad all with storm bolters and S5 power weapons...for 100 points. Or put them all in termi armor and add a +1A for another 100. Massed grey knights is going to be tough. I think it will be easier to deal with all the new toys they have, it's the troop choices that are making me worry.

 

S5 power weapons that relies on a Psyker test to do that, WS 4 that hit pretty much everything on a 4+, and 1 attack base, max of 2. Stormbolters, yup good, but a 10 man GK squad cost 200 points, vanilla. You need the army specialized. They are not as good as they look like, they need someone to take out Tanks, someone to take out hordes, and in their case, they CAN be Marines killers, but that still depends on the situation. Also, Grey Knights are slow. They are a middle range army that without support, are really slow to enter in the fray. If they get, sometimes they will simply get stomped because of dwindle number. NO, GK is an army that need specializations, because they look like they can do everything, but they don't. They are not fast enough, have a hard time killing tanks, unless you make a unit ready to do that. They are too expensive already, trying to make them take all comers make them even more.

 

Grey Knights, as far as I have seen them, either play with specialization or extremely expensive good for everything units. Grey Knights vannilla are not good for everything, they can assault reasonably well, against Marines armies, great, against hordes? They need special troops for the job.

 

Draigo lists with Paladins know this, they need someone to soak up damage from shooting, because Paladins die like hell for Meltas, Plasmas and, as I have seen them, to Obliterators, specially those that are hiding in some terrain.

 

Ran

[1Drop]

So is plasma a bigger threat to GK than melta?

[Rybnick]

I don't think plasma is a bigger threat than melta in most circumstances, just a different kind of threat and it really depends on the type of plasma gun your equiping as well as the squad you are equipping it on that matters.

 

For example I still won't be taking plasma weaponry in my assault squads as melta is a much more versatile gun in the squad (normally I skip special pistol upgrades for my Srgt's but I could see the benefits of a plasma pistol there if you have spare poins) capable of killing tanks and highly armored targets with ease. However a plasma gun makes a lot more sense in a tactical squad since they will normally be avoiding getting up close where the melta shines, and they can stand and rapid fire death into the advancing enemy.

 

We have a pretty big advantage over most other marine armies in my opinion when it comes to fighting GK and that is easily accesible FnP. It's sometimes shocking just how durable 3+armor save, a 4+ FnP roll and cover will make your marines. I've had 20 tactical marines pull up in rhinos dump out and rapid fire into 5 devestators in cover with FnP and they still only manage to kill 2 marines out of the squad. Granted I had some amazing armor/cover saves but still we can weather a lot of shooting from those fancy storm bolters if we have too. Just be careful where and when you assault and get as many shots into grey armor that you can and we should do fine. Oh and be sure and introduce that pesky Vindicare assassin to you Baal Predator!

[Ranwulf]

So is plasma a bigger threat to GK than melta?

 

Not exactly. To Paladins, Melta is a hell of a threat. Plasma is good against overall army.

 

Ran

[Volchek]

It's not that Plasma is a bigger threat, but like others have stated it's a different kind of threat. Melta means you have to be closer to the enemy unit to affect it, and meltaguns cant't rapid fire.

 

I equip my Assault squads with a meltagun, plasma gun, and sgt with PF and plasma pistol. I equip my tac squads with a missile launcher or multimelta and plasma gun, sgt with PF. My Dev squad is where I really go all out with 4 Plasma Cannons. 36' range, Blast, S7, AP2. If even just 2 of the 4 blast templates are on target it can really ruin the enemy squad's day. Even if they are terminators, they will only get their 5+ invul save at best, 4+ if they are in cover.

 

In my last game against Salamanders the 4 Plasma Cannon dev sqd killed 80% of 2 tac squads, a unit of scout snipers, and unit of termies after they had to disembark from an immobilized Land Raider. They lasted long enough to do that because I had maxed the unit at 10 marines. At the end of the game I still had 2 plasma cannons alive from that unit.

[1Drop]

Cool, can you still buy single metal marines with heavy weapons? Cos the devastator boxed set has four different heavys right? I quite fancy making a devs squad with four plasma cannons!

[Rybnick]

In a game last night verse vanilla marines my 2 Devestator squads were easily the MVP's of the night. I had a 10 man Dev squad with 4x ML combat squaded and a 5 man squad w/ 2x Plasma cannons. They broke the back of my enemy on turn 3 when the ML Dev's popped a Rhino near my objective (it was a capture and control game) and then the plasma cannon dev's scored 2 consecutive direct hits with their cannons obliterating the 10 tactical marines that were inside the destroyed Rhino. Long story short I'd tabled him by turn 4, and my Dev's killed a metric ton of power armored and terminator armored marines. I think over all they wracked up 10x Tactical marines, 2 Devestators, and 3 Terminators. They contributed much more than my normal Dev set up of either dual 4x ML squads or a 4x ML and 2x Lascannon squad. I'm completely sold on Plasma cannons Dev's now, just have to model a few up! :angry: