Outfitting the Acolytes

[Joasht]

This is sort of a spin-off from my older thread about Henchmen. I have some spare Cadians that I am putting together as Acolytes; I initially bought them thinking I might play IG, but that is on indefinite hiatus (although, I could just paint all of them Inquisition colors and pull double duty in both this army and an IG army :X). Either way, I was thinking, how are you guys using your Acolytes, and in what combination with other henchmen?

 

The poor BS coupled with the comparatively high cost of the special weapons makes almost all the options not too great in my opinion, so I might just keep them as cheap fodder in most squads, or possibly a flamer in a close combat squad. I have seen people who have had success with the Stormbolter (although that makes it pretty expensive), and of course, people take the Meltagun because they can. BS 3 single-shot guns are just unreliable though.....

 

Anyway, thoughts?

Thanks!

[Nian]

This is sort of a spin-off from my older thread about Henchmen. I have some spare Cadians that I am putting together as Acolytes; I initially bought them thinking I might play IG, but that is on indefinite hiatus (although, I could just paint all of them Inquisition colors and pull double duty in both this army and an IG army :X). Either way, I was thinking, how are you guys using your Acolytes, and in what combination with other henchmen?

 

The poor BS coupled with the comparatively high cost of the special weapons makes almost all the options not too great in my opinion, so I might just keep them as cheap fodder in most squads, or possibly a flamer in a close combat squad. I have seen people who have had success with the Stormbolter (although that makes it pretty expensive), and of course, people take the Meltagun because they can. BS 3 single-shot guns are just unreliable though.....

 

Anyway, thoughts?

Thanks!

 

 

As many of we 3rd ed players have a mass of inquisitorial storm troopers and the new codex effectively removed them, I am guessing more players will try to use coteaz and have a few squads of Warrior Accolytes with carapace armour, hot-shot lasguns and the max heavy weapons, 3x plasma guns or 3x melta-guns.

 

At 13 points a model for the basic storm trooper equivalent, they are the cheapest troop you can get thats effective. This is a big plus in what looks to be a stupidly expensive codex that forces you to use expensive bling to do the job.

 

The BS is worse than the old 10 points Inquisitorial Storm Trooper which sucks and makes no sense. Considering inquisitors can get the best, why would they go for the basic vanilla imperial guard?

 

As I see it the BS in all the new codex are been brought to about the same amount, probably matt ward thinks it will make it easier if everything has the same stats, for the new player. A dumbing down of 40k? Probably.

 

 

 

Oh BTW, anyone else miffed by the absence of grenade launchers in the Warrior Acolyte wargear?

[TheMouth]

^^^^or that the acolytes have better LD then guardsmen....

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Poor BS or not, they are cheap. Really cheap. And their default weapon being cc weapon and pistol instead of a lasgun goes a long way. 6 man teams in razorbacks with 3 meltas or plasma are going to be a great basic unit for Coteaz lists. Beyond that, I see their main use as being cc fodder or cheap bolter/stormbolter spam. All the special CC weapon roles are done better by other henchmen for only a couple points more. Crusaders are cheaper than a stormshield and also have a powerweapon, death cult assassins have better stats and power weapons, banishers with eviscerators are a better option than fists. The only roles I see them playing in CC squads is extra bodies, but you could give them carapace or power armor to give them some more survivability.

[Nian]

You would be silly to go deliberately for close combat with them, grey knights do that with vengeance. Take them for what they are, the cheapest possible troops and the only (non servitor) infantry that can take plasma guns and melta-guns.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

You would be silly to go deliberately for close combat with them, grey knights do that with vengeance. Take them for what they are, the cheapest possible troops and the only (non servitor) infantry that can take plasma guns and melta-guns.

 

Grey Knight units are great vs meq, but can end up very inefficient against opponents where their power weapons aren't counting for anything. Henchmen have a lot more diversity, and in general benefit a lot more from having librarian buffs stacked on them. If you need to kill a horde in CC, or are fighting opponents where lots of high strength attacks are more useful than powerweapons, henchmen can come out ahead.

[Joasht]

When I said close combat squad I meant DCAs/crusaders. There is no reason to run a pure acolyte assault squad haha.

 

I think the "stormtrooper build" is frankly too expensive, at only one point less than a Grey Hunter they dont' really contribute to anything - the poor BS and S of their gun doesn't make them particularly killy.

[Trillius]

Personally I'm giving most of my acolytes bolters. You can have a squad of 10 for the same cost as an IG Infantry Squad, but with S4 AP5 weapons. I also take plasma guns as they're comparatively cheap so if they 'get hot', who cares? You're not losing an expensive marine.

[Joasht]

Personally I'm giving most of my acolytes bolters. You can have a squad of 10 for the same cost as an IG Infantry Squad, but with S4 AP5 weapons. I also take plasma guns as they're comparatively cheap so if they 'get hot', who cares? You're not losing an expensive marine.

 

Actually come to think of it now that you mention it, that isn't at all a bad idea. 5 points per pop for a boltgun-totting Guardsman isn't a bad thing.

And if you *really* wanted you could go all "Tau Fire Warrior" and go for Carapace Armor as well - not as shooty, but *marginally* better in close combat (not that it matters) and a point cheaper.....

 

But IMO the armor options are a little wonky, it personally feels like they *don't* want you to take them.

[lot187]

This is sort of a spin-off from my older thread about Henchmen. I have some spare Cadians that I am putting together as Acolytes; I initially bought them thinking I might play IG, but that is on indefinite hiatus (although, I could just paint all of them Inquisition colors and pull double duty in both this army and an IG army :X). Either way, I was thinking, how are you guys using your Acolytes, and in what combination with other henchmen?

 

The poor BS coupled with the comparatively high cost of the special weapons makes almost all the options not too great in my opinion, so I might just keep them as cheap fodder in most squads, or possibly a flamer in a close combat squad. I have seen people who have had success with the Stormbolter (although that makes it pretty expensive), and of course, people take the Meltagun because they can. BS 3 single-shot guns are just unreliable though.....

 

Anyway, thoughts?

Thanks!

 

 

I have jest been using them as wounds for the squad. Power armour & bolter is 15pts each for a crappy marine, but 5 3+ armour guys in a squad has been great. Actually 5 wish marines, 2 crusaders, 3 weapon servitors, and 2 obliterapes (jokearo) is a b-e-a-utifull heavy weapons team(preferably sitting on an objective with Coteaz) . but i have also seen them go nice with meltguns with a more cc henchmen warband. 6 crusaders, 4 death cult, 2 melta acolyte...in a storm raven. hurts.

[Nian]

Been that Hot-Shot lasguns have been nicknamed the marine killers. I don't think the Warrior Acolyte with Carapace Armour and Hot-Shot Lasgun for 13 points would be an issue for points.

Its still 7 points less than a grey knight in power armour.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

but i have also seen them go nice with meltguns with a more cc henchmen warband. 6 crusaders, 4 death cult, 2 melta acolyte...in a storm raven. hurts.

 

You're running a CC squad but not using arco flagellants??

[Joasht]

Been that Hot-Shot lasguns have been nicknamed the marine killers. I don't think the Warrior Acolyte with Carapace Armour and Hot-Shot Lasgun for 13 points would be an issue for points.

Its still 7 points less than a grey knight in power armour.

 

A Hotshot Lasgun at BS3 has a 1/3 chance of killing a Space Marine if Rapid Fired, 1/6 if at full (lol 18") range.

 

A Stormbolter at BS4 (i.e. Grey Knights) has a 2/9 chance of killing a Space Marine at up to 24". The Hotshot Lasgun has only a 1/9 higher chance of killing a Space Marine at Rapid Fire range, and is worse when further away.

 

The way I see it, those seven extra points to upgrade that Acolyte to a Grey Knight gives me:

+1 WS, +1 BS, +1 S, +1 T, +1 I, a 3+ save, a gun that is not all too much worse, a Force Weapon, Aegis, ATSKNF, Psyk-Out Grenades, Frag/Krak Grenades, Deep Strike (GKSS) and Pref Enemy Daemons.

[Nian]

A Hotshot Lasgun at BS3 has...

 

 

Yes well thats my biggest grive with the codex, so many units hae a reduced BS now, its literally BS!

 

Wasn't happy when I noticed this nerf.

[Foolio_Displasius]

Yeah, I'd initially hoped to keep my plethora of old Stormtrooper models on the table. Next edition, boys... next edition. :D

 

Of course, they could be fielded without the carapace upgrade, and their weapon could be called a "funny looking boltgun." That'd let you get 10 boots in a Rhino with 3 special weapons for 117 points. Call 'em "funny looking stormbolters" and it's more like 131 points. I'm still debating the viability of that squad as the basis of a Coteaz army, though.

[Joasht]

I've personally always avoided the Stormtroopers in the previous edition partly because I like the GK models, and partly because it has always bothered me about how they could exist. Generally, humans are killed if they have knowledge of Daemons, and since they aren't crazy fanatics or born/bred from a young age to be Space Monks/Nuns but rather normal guys who sign up for the army, I always wondered how that all fits. Do they kill them after a fight and waste all those resources training them? Or are they somehow inexplicably "special" and can somehow fight Daemons without going nuts?

 

To be honest I've forgotten their 3rd ed fluff because I simply wrote them off in my head and never cared to give them more than a glance or two, and I have no idea where my Daemonhunter codex is (haven't really touched it since 3rd ed :D).

[Nian]

I've personally always avoided the Stormtroopers in the previous edition partly because I like the GK models, and partly because it has always bothered me about how they could exist. Generally, humans are killed if they have knowledge of Daemons, and since they aren't crazy fanatics or born/bred from a young age to be Space Monks/Nuns but rather normal guys who sign up for the army, I always wondered how that all fits. Do they kill them after a fight and waste all those resources training them? Or are they somehow inexplicably "special" and can somehow fight Daemons without going nuts?

 

To be honest I've forgotten their 3rd ed fluff because I simply wrote them off in my head and never cared to give them more than a glance or two, and I have no idea where my Daemonhunter codex is (haven't really touched it since 3rd ed :D).

 

 

The Storm Trooper is the elite of the elite for normal humans, highly educated and well equipped.

They are orphans, mostly sons of officers who served the Imperium.

 

Are they untaintable, certainly not. But nor are space marines. Still they are better than most and are the standard troops for an Inquisitors own private army.

An Inquisitor doesn't sacrifice his own private staff for no reason, he needs his army to fend off rival Inquisitors own.

[Wildfire]

I think acolytes are probably one of the best things a the henchmen have going for them. They can fill out a squad with cheap disposable bodies to absorb fire (4x Arcos/Banisher/DCA and 8x acolytes seems good to me), they're you're only source of melta in the entire codex, and they can be kitted out to compliment every other type of henchmen. I don't know that I'd take whole squads of acolytes by themselves, but I don't think I'd take a squad of henchmen that weren't at least half acolytes.

[Brom MKIV]

I think acolytes are probably one of the best things a the henchmen have going for them. They can fill out a squad with cheap disposable bodies to absorb fire (4x Arcos/Banisher/DCA and 8x acolytes seems good to me), they're you're only source of melta in the entire codex, and they can be kitted out to compliment every other type of henchmen. I don't know that I'd take whole squads of acolytes by themselves, but I don't think I'd take a squad of henchmen that weren't at least half acolytes.

 

I agree. In my experiences with henchmen squads so far, t3 means lots of wounds that will spill over onto key components of your squad. Therefore it is best to build your squads as efficient as possible then fill up the rest with 4 pt ablatives. This is the main role I see acolytes performing and they are damn good at it. For me their only other roll is melta/plasma.

[Joasht]

I think acolytes are probably one of the best things a the henchmen have going for them. They can fill out a squad with cheap disposable bodies to absorb fire (4x Arcos/Banisher/DCA and 8x acolytes seems good to me), they're you're only source of melta in the entire codex, and they can be kitted out to compliment every other type of henchmen. I don't know that I'd take whole squads of acolytes by themselves, but I don't think I'd take a squad of henchmen that weren't at least half acolytes.

 

I agree. In my experiences with henchmen squads so far, t3 means lots of wounds that will spill over onto key components of your squad. Therefore it is best to build your squads as efficient as possible then fill up the rest with 4 pt ablatives. This is the main role I see acolytes performing and they are damn good at it. For me their only other roll is melta/plasma.

 

You have to be careful with this, Henchmen are generally Ld 8 without a character attached, and without ATSKNF it is a risk. Admittedly an Inquisitor (or even a GK IC) attached would make them a whole lot more reliable, but in the case of an Inquisitor, if you seriously fluff your dice, you would end up losing even more points if they run off the table :X

[The Holy Heretic]

I've personally always avoided the Stormtroopers in the previous edition partly because I like the GK models, and partly because it has always bothered me about how they could exist. Generally, humans are killed if they have knowledge of Daemons, and since they aren't crazy fanatics or born/bred from a young age to be Space Monks/Nuns but rather normal guys who sign up for the army, I always wondered how that all fits. Do they kill them after a fight and waste all those resources training them? Or are they somehow inexplicably "special" and can somehow fight Daemons without going nuts?

 

To be honest I've forgotten their 3rd ed fluff because I simply wrote them off in my head and never cared to give them more than a glance or two, and I have no idea where my Daemonhunter codex is (haven't really touched it since 3rd ed ;)).

 

 

The Storm Trooper is the elite of the elite for normal humans, highly educated and well equipped.

They are orphans, mostly sons of officers who served the Imperium.

 

Are they untaintable, certainly not. But nor are space marines. Still they are better than most and are the standard troops for an Inquisitors own private army.

An Inquisitor doesn't sacrifice his own private staff for no reason, he needs his army to fend off rival Inquisitors own.

 

An inquisitor should be willing to sacrifice planetary systems to ensure the survival of the imperium, let alone mere stormtroopers who are a dime a dozen.

 

The stormtroopers are fine to break down doors and shoot cultists, but if an investgation is too late, daemons have been summoned, and you need to call in the Grey Knights to clean up the mess, then stormtroopers, acolytes, civilians and whatever other cannonfodder who have been exposed needs to be terminated to avoid contamination. Its a small prize to pay to keep the rest of humanity safe ;)

[mlund]

My Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are the old hazmat-suit looking ones with Hellguns. Since Hellguns don't exist in any codex but Witch Hunters anymore and their armor and weaponry doesn't look nearly as reinforced as the new Cadian Stormtroopers my Stormtroopers now sport a Flak Armor / Boltgun profile. At 5 points you can't go wrong once you're maxes out on Plasma Guns. Double bonus if you have a Weaponsmith in the retinue - though I think I'll use some sort of Tech Priest model instead of those awful apes.

 

- Marty Lund

[lot187]

but i have also seen them go nice with meltguns with a more cc henchmen warband. 6 crusaders, 4 death cult, 2 melta acolyte...in a storm raven. hurts.

 

You're running a CC squad but not using arco flagellants??

 

I'm running cc with all power weapons. on the charge 16 at I6, and 12 at I3. why use flagellants? there survivability from feel no pain would never be needed until all the crusades where dead anyway, and I would sacrifice 4 attacks for power weapons.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

but i have also seen them go nice with meltguns with a more cc henchmen warband. 6 crusaders, 4 death cult, 2 melta acolyte...in a storm raven. hurts.

 

You're running a CC squad but not using arco flagellants??

 

I'm running cc with all power weapons. on the charge 16 at I6, and 12 at I3. why use flagellants? there survivability from feel no pain would never be needed until all the crusades where dead anyway, and I would sacrifice 4 attacks for power weapons.

 

Because they have a ton of attacks at high strength and weaponskill? If you're only fighting MeQ your all power weapons are fine, but arco flagellants are what you want if you ever end up in CC with anything else. If you've got hammerhand or a librarian casting might of titan, they'll smash vehicles too.

[BrotherWasted]

In case you forgot, DCA are also WS5. Yes they're strength 4, but they strike at Initiative 6. Flagellants strike at initiative 3. They will be torn apart before they get to strike.

 

Hammerhand makes all my Deathcult Assassins Strength 5 as well. In a squad of 8 DCA/3 Crusaders + Inquisitor, this makes them 32 I6 S5 Power Weapon Attacks on the Charge. Flagellants can't compare, even if they have higher base strength and attack.

 

Flagellants get 5 on the charge, DCA get 4 (2 attacks base, +1 for having two power weapons, +1 for charging). 4 attacks that ignore saves are better than five that don't.