Magic Dragon Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Okay so we all know that these days Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are entirely separate entities. It does seem however that early incarnations of the fluff had them being joined in a very real way and there were strong references suggesting Sigmar Heldenhammer indeed was a Primarch. So I guess this thread is a bit of a What If? like the old Marvel comic books. I'm curious what people think Sigmar's Legion would have been like if that piece of fluff had been retained. What would it be called, what sort of combat style and cultural influences do you think may have been included.. *This thread is meant to be fun and purely speculative please don't go all fluff nazi on it* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I still maintain that Sigmar IS a Primarch until they give me two Primarchs that prove otherwise. Rubinek - Primarch of the Iron Hearts Sigmar - Primarch of the Valedictors I imagine the Valedictors would be kinda like a cross between the Imperial Fists and the Salamanders. All German-ish and Imperial, but with a love of smithing and hammers. I imagine the Iron Hearts to be the original "technology" Legion. Back before the Iron Hands got all weird and body dysmorphic, and misunderstood Ferrus' outlook, which eventually made them tech-obsessed, I think of the Iron Hearts as having an actual understanding of technology because Rubinek was raised on a world where technology wasn't misunderstood. The Legion would have invented stealth fields, and maybe Vortex Grenades, and maybe even the Dreadknight (because the thing had to come from somewhere, right?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2719635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I still maintain that Sigmar IS a Primarch until they give me two Primarchs that prove otherwise. Rubinek - Primarch of the Iron Hearts Sigmar - Primarch of the Valedictors I imagine the Valedictors would be kinda like a cross between the Imperial Fists and the Salamanders. All German-ish and Imperial, but with a love of smithing and hammers. I imagine the Iron Hearts to be the original "technology" Legion. Back before the Iron Hands got all weird and body dysmorphic, and misunderstood Ferrus' outlook, which eventually made them tech-obsessed, I think of the Iron Hearts as having an actual understanding of technology because Rubinek was raised on a world where technology wasn't misunderstood. The Legion would have invented stealth fields, and maybe Vortex Grenades, and maybe even the Dreadknight (because the thing had to come from somewhere, right?). I am pretty sure Primarch Rubinek has already been retconned away...I remember hearing that the author had doen enoough research on Space Marines, and simply used the title Primarch due to its importance in the 40k verse. sigmar could be cool though. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2719665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 This theory was done away with when Gw specifically stated that the worlds of Warhammer fantasy and 40K were seperate so Sigmar was not one of the lost Primarchs just like Archeon was not abadons great great great great granddaddy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2719774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Dragon Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 This theory was done away with when Gw specifically stated that the worlds of Warhammer fantasy and 40K were seperate so Sigmar was not one of the lost Primarchs just like Archeon was not abadons great great great great granddaddy Did you actually bother to read the original post? Might help to do so before you post next time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2719849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Okay so we all know that these days Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are entirely separate entities. It does seem however that early incarnations of the fluff had them being joined in a very real way and there were strong references suggesting Sigmar Heldenhammer indeed was a Primarch. So I guess this thread is a bit of a What If? like the old Marvel comic books. I'm curious what people think Sigmar's Legion would have been like if that piece of fluff had been retained. What would it be called, what sort of combat style and cultural influences do you think may have been included.. *This thread is meant to be fun and purely speculative please don't go all fluff nazi on it* Cult of Sigmar, but in Spaaaace! Not sure there's anything more you'd be able to draw from them. A love of hammers, strength in unity, mistrust of psykers, etc. EC, what are you basing the Iron Hearts ideas off? All we have to go off for them is a Chapter name, and a mis-titled Chapter Master. They could be anything. Not that I think it isn't a good idea, but we've already got three "technology" Legions, we don't really need a fourth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2719877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Back in the days I used to think that founder of a chapter was called Primarch. You know, the very first "chapter master". Like Sigismund was the Primarch of Black Templars.... About Sigmar.... Somewhere between Imperial Fists and Salamanders sounds ok. I'd also give a little touch of Space Wolves, he was worshipper of Ulrik after all and united wild tribes.... there is something savage about him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2719899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Okay so we all know that these days Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are entirely separate entities. It does seem however that early incarnations of the fluff had them being joined in a very real way and there were strong references suggesting Sigmar Heldenhammer indeed was a Primarch. So I guess this thread is a bit of a What If? like the old Marvel comic books. I'm curious what people think Sigmar's Legion would have been like if that piece of fluff had been retained. What would it be called, what sort of combat style and cultural influences do you think may have been included.. *This thread is meant to be fun and purely speculative please don't go all fluff nazi on it* Cult of Sigmar, but in Spaaaace! Not sure there's anything more you'd be able to draw from them. A love of hammers, strength in unity, mistrust of psykers, etc. EC, what are you basing the Iron Hearts ideas off? All we have to go off for them is a Chapter name, and a mis-titled Chapter Master. They could be anything. Not that I think it isn't a good idea, but we've already got three "technology" Legions, we don't really need a fourth. Kinda. The Salamanders mostly just make high quality regular stuff. The Iron Hands eventually stumbled into technological backwardness like the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the Iron Warriors(if those are the third) are just siege masters who eventually got Obliterator virused. We're still missing a Legion who was actually technologically enlightened from the start and knew what they were doing. It's a bit weird to me that none of the Primarchs would've landed on a world like that of the Interex. And maybe Rubinek made allies with local alien empires. Basically he and the Iron Hearts could've been the true sci-fi Legion. Almost like a Space Marine version of the Tau Empire. So between consorting with xenos and tech-heresy it'd give solid groundwork as to why the Legion might've been expunged, while simultaneously explaining where a lot of the weirder devices/machines in the Imperial armories might've come from. Rubinek and the Iron Hearts are still in print. What's more, they UPDATED the story "Hell In A Bottle" to read "Primarch" instead of "Commander" in the newest printing. So regardless of the author's actual intent, the IS a Primarch Rubinek of the Iron Hearts in the canon right now. And actually, for all their claims of the Fantasy and 40k worlds having been separated, it's complete nonsense. They were still printing new stuff that spans both worlds as recently as the Codex:Chaos Daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2720066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 We're still missing a Legion who was actually technologically enlightened from the start and knew what they were doing. It's a bit weird to me that none of the Primarchs would've landed on a world like that of the Interex.And maybe Rubinek made allies with local alien empires. Basically he and the Iron Hearts could've been the true sci-fi Legion. Almost like a Space Marine version of the Tau Empire. So between consorting with xenos and tech-heresy it'd give solid groundwork as to why the Legion might've been expunged, while simultaneously explaining where a lot of the weirder devices/machines in the Imperial armories might've come from. I love this idea. We have plenty of Legions already succumbing to Chaos. How about one who's fall had nothing to do with it whatsoever. We know that more technologically advanced human populations had survived out there, why not have one of the missing primarchs fall there. He and his legion start off on the crusade but than the Terran marines start to realize just how "tainted" their new brothers and primarch are. It doesn't even have to be about consorting with xenos - just simply tech-heresy (one of those human populations that held onto ancient tech that much better than Terra). In fact the other fallen Primarch could be the "xeno consorter" as we know Fantasy Sigmar dealt with dwarves quite closely... More OT though, I'll start by saying I'm not a fan of them being linked in anyway however I do not have a problem with 40K lore giving a nod to Fantasy. A Cigmar or Sagmir (or hell, even just plain Sigmar), as Primarch of one of the lost Legions works for me. Again, I like EC's take on those marines. As a primarch do you think he would be along the lines of Horus being well rounded? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2720151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 There was no 'tech-heresy' in the Crusade - anything the Emperor approved was ok, and the Ad Mech viewed him (allegedly) as the Omnisiah made flesh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2720348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 There was no 'tech-heresy' in the Crusade - anything the Emperor approved was ok, and the Ad Mech viewed him (allegedly) as the Omnisiah made flesh. True, The Emperor could approve things, but there WERE plenty of things The Emperor DIDN'T approve - and therefore plenty of opportunity for tech-heresy. And of course this would be super-likely if the tech in question was partially alien in origin, or made through alliance with xenos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2720398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 That said, he was willing to make use of xenos tech himself (the Gate, of Old One or Eldar origin). But "I'm allowed but you're not" does seem rather common in the Imperium- with high ranking people able to get away with things that get low-rank ones into deep trouble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2720447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 That said, he was willing to make use of xenos tech himself (the Gate, of Old One or Eldar origin). But "I'm allowed but you're not" does seem rather common in the Imperium- with high ranking people able to get away with things that get low-rank ones into deep trouble. That was more a case of 'the ends justify the means' in trying to find a method of FTL travel which would not force Imperial Ships to be purely reliant upon the warp and be the first steps towards an imperial webway, at least that's what I heard anyway. The Ad Mech tech heresies mostly consisted of creating AIs and worse things, or xenos technology they didn't understand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2720457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 And just because we can't name the types of tech heresies one of the Lost Legions might've committed doesn't mean that's not what happened. After all, what source would list those heresies for us when *RECORDS EXPUNGED*? It's possible they did something so -out there- that we don't even consider it in the context of 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2720676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don the Oiler Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Sooo, we need an explanation about the elves forgetting they're originating from a space-faring race that could easily solve their problems with chaos on that planet and that isn't exactly on the best of terms with humanity. Or are the elves just mutated humans and not related to the Eldar at all? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2723390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Sooo, we need an explanation about the elves forgetting they're originating from a space-faring race that could easily solve their problems with chaos on that planet and that isn't exactly on the best of terms with humanity.Or are the elves just mutated humans and not related to the Eldar at all? For a shortish version of the answer, see:THIS For further explanation of things you may not be aware of that will thereby explain things in the aforementioned link, see:THIS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2723423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree over this particular issue. It's one of those issues where both sides can point to evidence that "proves them right". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2723667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Dragon Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Okay this is getting slightly off topic. Lets get back to the original idea and keep discussing ideas of what a Sigmar Legion might have been like, what it might have been called etc. It would be awesome to see some ideas of a colour scheme using the SM painter. Lets get creative guys and go wild with a few homebrew ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227065-what-if-sigmar-heldenhammer-was-a-primarch/#findComment-2723688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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