A change in Space Wolves' image in Prospero Burns

[Gv0zD]

I'm not sure if I'm making a post in the right section, but since it's dedicated to HH novel I think it's ok.

 

I've almost finished Prospero Burns (what a slow reader I am :D ), and I got a feeling that Mr. Abnett introduced a certain change in Space Wolves background. What I mean is that in the book the SW are shown as "space barbarians", or even "tribals", similar to the image of barbarians provided in AD&D handbooks, released in early 90-s.

 

Before the book was released, I thought of SW as of regular marines with thier image developed in a way to instill fear upon their enemies. The latter impression falls in line with the "space vikings" theme. The vikings were a brutal force, that used their frocious image to break their enemies' morale, and thus gain advantage in battle. And this fear tactics suited SW perfectly. In the same time they were regular marines to me in terms of their beliefs and knowledge of the world. They had psykers, techmarines (who study on Mars and should be aware of what things are in reality), and they use all the available technology.

 

The idea of SW double nature was stressed in the book, but with all thier way of life outside the battle being detailed, an impression of primitive barbarians has strongly settled in my mind. They don't trust written texts, they literally live like cave men, wearing pelts and leather masks, sleeping in cave-styled chambers, and they have pretty warped unerstanding of the warp ;) and the world in general.

 

It goes further with the author mentiong and referring to historical nations and cultures, that have little in common with vikings. I'm talking about Rus tribes and Ahmad Ibn Rustah (an arab trader who ventured into modern Russia territories) in particular. While the medieval slav tribes interacted with scandinavian people (the actual vikings) in many different ways, war, slavery and governace being the major ones, the slavs were not the vikings we all know. This extention of SW background really changes some of their old-school image, and retcons the "space viking" image, making them "space barbarians".

 

I can't tell whether it is good or bad, I just wanted to express my thoughts that were 'tormenting' my mind for some time. Perhaps this change makes SW more universal in terms of cultural traits and character development, removing the limitation on names to the scandinavian ones. And it is good news to my fellow SW players in Russia who can finally say that thier armies derived from Russian hystory and culture without making certain historical assumptions and reinterpretation of facts ;)

 

That's all. I just wanted to express my opinion on the book and Mr. Abnett's work, so feel free to comment on this post, and express your own ideas and considerations.

 

Cheers! :P

[tiberium40k]

Before the book was released, I thought of SW as of regular marines with thier image developed in a way to instill fear upon their enemies. The latter impression falls in line with the "space vikings" theme. The vikings were a brutal force, that used their frocious image to break their enemies' morale, and thus gain advantage in battle. And this fear tactics suited SW perfectly. In the same time they were regular marines to me in terms of their beliefs and knowledge of the world. They had psykers, techmarines (who study on Mars and should be aware of what things are in reality), and they use all the available technology.

 

The idea of SW double nature was stressed in the book, but with all thier way of life outside the battle being detailed, an impression of primitive barbarians has strongly settled in my mind. They don't trust written texts, they literally live like cave men, wearing pelts and leather masks, sleeping in cave-styled chambers, and they have pretty warped unerstanding of the warp :cuss and the world in general.

 

It goes further with the author mentiong and referring to historical nations and cultures, that have little in common with vikings. I'm talking about Rus tribes and Ahmad Ibn Rustah (an arab trader who ventured into modern Russia territories) in particular. While the medieval slav tribes interacted with scandinavian people (the actual vikings) in many different ways, war, slavery and governace being the major ones, the slavs were not the vikings we all know. This extention of SW background really changes some of their old-school image, and retcons the "space viking" image, making them "space barbarians".

 

I think you hit the nail right in the head here. IMO, this change isn`t for the better. If we look at how different all the legions are, there is still one thing that makes them all similar; they are Adeptus Astartes. Yes, they all have cultural/organisational/tactical elements to them that make them unique, but still they are all futuristic genehanced supersoldiers whose only purpose in life is to wage war. The new Space Wolf fluff in the book put all the emphasis on their barbarism, to the point when I started asking myself weather I am reading a book about some fantasy or D&D barbarian-themed faction. It peeled away much of the "space marine" part of the Space Wolves and literally made them barbarians in space rather then a barbarian-themed Legio Astartes. For the life of me, I cant imagine why Abnett made them purposefully abhor literacy, proper lighting and heating. The absence of these does not make them look more "badass", it looks like they keep themselves backward on purpose! Like the scene where they demolish a part of their ship (turning off fire protection!!!) so it would feel more like the Fang. To me, its like a modern tank crew throwing away all the advanced targeting and high-electrinic systems in their third generation MBT so they could operate a tank like the first Mark I crews did.

[SCC]

One thing to remember here is that the 30K/HH era Wolves are much closer to the barbarian state than their modern (40K) descendants are. With the exception of a small number of Wolves recruited from Terra the Wolves of the HH are drawn directly from the tribes conquered by Russ himself. When they join the Legion they bring with them all those primitive beliefs en masse, beliefs only reinforced by Russ himself, raised as a barbarian and who reigned as one too.

 

Then, consider that when the Fenrisians/Vrylka are recruited into the Legion following the reunification of Russ and his Father, that more of their culture is imported into the Legion with them despite hypno-indoctrination and so forth for a variety of reasons including the fact that 'Imperial culture' is far less monolithic in 30K than 40K and because the Legion itself willingly adopts the trappings of its Primarch, further diluting the more 'civilised' nature of the Terran Wolves (assuming of course they are more civilised).

 

Russ' own proclivities shouldn't be ignored either, whether he plays up the 'barbarian' aspect as part of his role as the Emperor's hound or to create an image or to ensure foes underestimate him, remember that with his living example to follow the Wolves will also be more primal than their modern counterparts. This also runs into conjecture about these 'original' Marines being closer to the parent Primarch in outlook, ability (size, strength etc.) and mind than 40K Marines who know their genefathers only as figures of legend.

 

Finally, don't underestimate the effects 10,000 years passing can have on a people. It's possible that the early Fenrisians were more Rus (the people) like than their 40K fellows. In many ways its possible that the Space Wolves themselves and their recruiting led the people of Fenris into a more Viking like way of life/outlook from their earlier Rus-like roots. After all if the Wolves start recruiting the fiercest warriors or most cunning raiders wouldn't other warriors adopt the ways of these warriors and their more Viking-like tendencies in the hopes of being recruited to join? It's easy to see how 10,000 years of a self-reinforcing circle like that could move a people form 'Rus' to 'Viking' quite easily.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Actually, I probably would have liked more of a duality to the Legion, between the primitive barbarians they show to the galaxy, and the more intelligent, 'cultured' warriors who show that image. Instead, we get Wolves that act like barbarians, talk like barbarians, and think like barbarians, yet we only have the word of a Space Wolf of "trust us, we're actually not like this... now excuse me while I go back to eating raw meat and drinking from a horn, while scorning academia".

 

Actually show the intelligence-gathering, the in-depth planning, the stuff that makes them not the barbarians they want everyone to think they are. As it stands, while they might not originally have been barbarians, by the time of Prospero Burns they're losing themselves within the act.

[Gv0zD]

While, I understand your point, SCC, and I can fully understand the difference between external and internal traits the Wolves deliberately develop, I don't buy their actual barbarism, so thoroughly detailed by Mr. Abnett (by both the cultural references and descriptions of their mode of life). Most Legions recruited from death worlds, with primitive population, which exist in harsh environment and almost total lack of civilization.

 

Take Blood Angels. Sanguinius' native tribe strongly reminds me of a tribe from Fallout 2 (that also has giant scorpions, radioactive wasteland) but the Blood Angels don't inherit their tribal culture, and their initiation process is compared to rebirth. Thei Baalites become Astartes and obtain all the necessary skills and knowledge. Now, the Wolves keeping their barbaric nature as a curtain to outsiders is pefectly good, but being literally barbaric is some kind of exaggeration. I won't even question the origin of SW psykers, and how were the Terran SW Libbies integrated into native Fenrisians and their beliefs and shaman stuff.

 

This and Mr. Abnett deliberately including the references to non-scandinavic cultures, thus moving the SW cultural background from vikings to generic barbarian tribes, that inhabited whole Europe and Russia in ancient ages.

[SCC]

As I say GvOzD, the birth of the Space Wolves Legion proper (the recruiting of Fenrisians en masse) is a very different event to 'modern' recruitment of individuals or small numbers into a Chapter. This isn't a small number of feral warriors joining a proud Imperial Chapter with thousands of years of history and tradition and being absorbed by that organisation, it's thousands (or more) of warriors led by a supremely charismatic leader (Russ) suddenly being inducted into a smaller, less well defined organisation with a far weaker sense of identity. The idea of a wholesale cultural change under those conditions doesn't seem inconceivable to me.

 

As to the BA, well, we don't know much of the BA in the HH era at this point. I will say that much of the theme of the BA is tied up in the transmutation of the poor benighted barbarian Baalites into literal and figurative Angels. There's also the difference between Russ and Sanguinius, Russ is, for better or worse, a barbarian king (or a viking chief if you prefer) among a barbarian people whilst Sanguinius is an angel amongst mortals. The Primarchs' personalities/roles/stereotypes have a huge effect on the personalities/roles/stereotypes related to each Legion, so the fact that Russ is arguably more similar to his people means the SW Legion is more likely to import the Fenrisian culture than the BA are to adopt Baalian culture wholesale in the same way. Instead the BA adopt more of their Primarch's traits (nobility, physical beauty, a gift for the arts etc.) and less of the culture that raised him. That is, of course, pure speculation based on 'modern' BA and it too may change considerably when we get to the BA in the HH novels.

 

Switching tack back to the Nordic/Scandinavian and the Rus/'generic barbarbarian' (and I'm not sure I'm willing to concede Abnett's depiction is 'generic' in that sense given the ibn Rustah parallels and others), as I said, 10,000 years is a long time, who's to say the SW didn't start as 'generic' and evolve into something more akin to the 'viking' people we know them as know (especially with some help from the SW through recruiting practices, the taking of all the stable land meaning the islanders have no option but to live a life of raiding, hunting etc.).

 

Regarding psykers, my memory isn't what it used to be, were there any Terran psykers in Abnett's book? Again though, I imagine the Fenrisian culture/Russ' own preferences/superstitions (regardless of knowledge gained later, superstition is hard to abandon for many) to have drowned out the influence of the Terran Wolves - a phenomenon that also occurs in other Legions (there are notable divisions in loyalties between Terran and non-Terran Marines in several early novels, including Abnett's first HH works).

 

Which brings us back to the idea that the influx of recruits that are attendant with the reunification of Primarch and Legion can, and often do (see the WE or T'Sons) have a major influence on the birth of a Legion proper (that is, a post-Terran Legion led and shaped by a Primarch). I think Sanguinius and the BA are (or could be) an exception to this rule because not only do they transform from less than 'pure' humans to specimens of physical perfection but there's also a marked change in mental character, from barbarian to patrician that's absent for most other Legions.

[Aeddon]

It always bothers me when people use the word 'barbarian'. The word itself is nothing more than a roman (biggoted) characterization for people that speak differently than they do (non-latin speakers). The irony I suppose is how well that term fits into this discussion.

 

What I think Mr. Abnett was doing was depicting the early Space Wolves as more of an early germanic culture, which is where todays germanic, scandinavian and russian cultures derive from. As far as accusing them of purposely doing thing 'wrong' I believe that miscomception comes more from lack of prospective than anything else. Much like how the roman empire saw the 'barbarians' as backward and wrong simply for being different you are now looking at the early Space Wolves as backward because they do not fall in line with the rest of the imperium. This is an extention of their 'anti-authority' nature that they are so (in)famous for and I think was done quite well. We can also see further parallels with the more 'modern' Space Wolves, seeing that they have adopted writing along with other imperial ways of life. This adaptation falls right in line with what we see throughout the general germainic cultures through their transformation from pre-christian cultures to christian cultures.

 

I think the BA example is a bit flawed, if nothing else it goes off of what the primarch wants. Sanguinius embraced art and sophistication where Russ embraced the fenrissian culture of his upbringing. I'm not trying to say there was anything wrong with either choice, simply noting the difference.

 

Also, I'm not really familiar so I'll ask here, do most other chapters who recruit from feral/death worlds like the Space Wolves recruit exclusively from one planet or do they tend to recruit from several planets?

 

Thanks and hope I didn't offend anyone, not my intent.

[Gv0zD]

It always bothers me when people use the word 'barbarian'. The word itself is nothing more than a roman (biggoted) characterization for people that speak differently than they do (non-latin speakers). The irony I suppose is how well that term fits into this discussion.

I'm aware of the initial meaning of the word, and in my first post I specifically mentioned "the AD&D Barbarian" to give the expression of what I thought.

 

What I think Mr. Abnett was doing was depicting the early Space Wolves as more of an early germanic culture, which is where todays germanic, scandinavian and russian cultures derive from.

That's what I was trying to say as well. What Mr. Abnett wrote about SW peaceful life doesn't refer specifically to Vikings (as we all got used to call SW), but refers to 'barbaric European nations' in general. So if we would make a parallel with fantasy (and we also do so quiet often), we can the similarities between Abnett's SW and early D&D barbarians (I keep referring to D&D because I recently uncovered old AD&D Barbarian Handbook of mine and the description there fits Abnett's SW perfectly). And by introducing the traces of Russian culture (which is not viking in any way) in the book, Mr. Abnett broadens the SW historical prototype from Vikings to Barbarians (early Medieval European Tribes if you will).

 

Now, I can't tell if this "broadened" image refers exclusively to Heresy-era SW or to the Legion/Chapter in whole. And this is my initial question. Could it be the general change in SW image/character, so that we'll start calling them "space barbarians" in future, or it is just an expression of one author that has noting in common with main GW fluff? And in future we may see new SW heroes called not Bjorn or Ulrik, but also Ivan or Vladimir ;)

 

Also, I'm not really familiar so I'll ask here, do most other chapters who recruit from feral/death worlds like the Space Wolves recruit exclusively from one planet or do they tend to recruit from several planets? [/qoute]

If a Chapter has its own homeworld, then it recruits generally its natives. The known exclusions are Imperial Fists, Black Templars and Dark Angels, who have no exclusive homeworld and/or are constantly crusading the galaxy.

[Marshal Rohr]

You just seem really excited that your Space Wolves can match your nationality.

 

 

*slow clap*

[tiberium40k]

It always bothers me when people use the word 'barbarian'. The word itself is nothing more than a roman (biggoted) characterization for people that speak differently than they do (non-latin speakers). The irony I suppose is how well that term fits into this discussion.

 

The term actually originated from ancient Greece. ;) Its original meaning isnt really important to its modern usage. Just look at what happened to "dictator".

 

As far as accusing them of purposely doing thing 'wrong' I believe that miscomception comes more from lack of prospective than anything else. Much like how the roman empire saw the 'barbarians' as backward and wrong simply for being different you are now looking at the early Space Wolves as backward because they do not fall in line with the rest of the imperium. This is an extention of their 'anti-authority' nature that they are so (in)famous for and I think was done quite well. We can also see further parallels with the more 'modern' Space Wolves, seeing that they have adopted writing along with other imperial ways of life.

 

Eh, that would perhaps be the case if the Fenrisians were keeping their culture in the face of Imperial assimilation, but stuff like literacy isn`t as much a Imperial trait as it is a civilisational one. The Fenrisians are not simply different, they are at a civilisational stage that is insanely backward compared to a space-faring one that is the Imperium. Yet the Space Wolves keep this level despite having plasma rifles and tanks. Its like the Ultramarines deploying in the triplex acies.

[Gv0zD]

You just seem really excited that your Space Wolves can match your nationality.

 

 

*slow clap*

:)

However, it is not true. There were some people (at B&C, my LGS, local forums etc) who claimed that Russians descended from Vikings and hence the reference in the book. When I read the book (well, most part of it :) ) I was under the expression that the whole SW theme moved to the barbarians in general, and not the Scandinavian Vikings with the respected attributes, traits, names and other stuff. Judging by the book, the SW can take roots from German tribes, Huns, Franks, Bulgars or any other. So my point was that with the book released, the SW became not just space vikings, but barbarians.

[Iron_Adam]

I only had the most basic understanding of space wloves before I read the book, because I am somewhat new to this, for lack of a better word, obsession. But I basically understood where the fenrisians came from, and mr. Abnett kind of affirmed it in a way I really love! The primitive hardwiring meeting the almost disdain for the futuristic equipment they use reminds me of so much in our culture of the guy who can do something extremely well, and refuses to adapt to newer ways of doing things. It also brings to mind the Germanic warriors in the movie gladiator, but able to play 3 simultaneous games of regicide.

[Grimtooth]

Want to know the definitive answer of which culture the Space Wolves was based off?

 

FENRISIAN CULTURE!!!

 

The deal with Space Wolves is that they are not so much as based on a culture (despite the overuse of Elder Futhark runes everywhere) is that they are based on a concept of the "noble savage". Let us compare the Space Wolves to what is probably one of the most widely known "noble savage", Conan the Barbarian. Not the movie version, the written version.

 

Conan was born on the battlefield, grew up on the battlefield, lived his life in battle. Throughout his life, he became versed in cultures not of his own, military tactics not his own, and pretty much incorporated that later on when he became one of the most powerful kings in the Hyborean age. His religion was Crom, who he did not ask for favor, but only looked to honor via his battles and accomplishments.

 

In addition, one major comparison between SW and Conan was their inherent hatred and defense against the supernatural. There are several instances that when Conan was facing an enemy with supernatural powers, it was his primal fury that would rebuke the supernatural powers, give him strength to fight the supernatural, and save the day. It is in fact a literary device used through many different fantasy works, but almost always shows that the primal natural fury in all men is stronger then the supernatural.

 

A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns just reinforces this among the VI Legion. The Wolves of the VI are reflections of Russ. His "barbarian" act is echoed through his sons in that while they are fierce in battle, they also display tactical cunning that belies their appearance (see the battles in both Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns). We also catch a glimpse of intellect, far beyond their appearance in the tactical decision games (incidentally, I played many of these while serving in the Marine Corps during my off time) they play during their downtime as well as knowing an ancient cultural reference far in the past when Hawser uses the name he uses specifically to make contact with the VI. Not to mention discovering the entire plot behind Hawser and the Thousand Sons attempt to infiltrate. If we take it that the Thousands Sons are so much more intelligent and refined then the VI, yet we have them finding out the Thousand Sons plot and then actually using it against them.

 

So make them what you want for your own reasons, ie, Nordic, Slav, Germanic. However all they are is Fenrisians, based upon a long time concept of the noble savage.

[Blacksad]

Eh, that would perhaps be the case if the Fenrisians were keeping their culture in the face of Imperial assimilation, but stuff like literacy isn`t as much a Imperial trait as it is a civilisational one. The Fenrisians are not simply different, they are at a civilisational stage that is insanely backward compared to a space-faring one that is the Imperium. Yet the Space Wolves keep this level despite having plasma rifles and tanks. Its like the Ultramarines deploying in the triplex acies.

this is wrong in so many ways... civilisation isn't about reading, it's about acting. The power of storytelling (as the Fenrisians worked) is a superb alternative as long as the civilisation does not come into contact with a people that depends on the written word, which is the only reason the Space Wolves needed to adapt, which they did.

 

civilisation does not necessarily mean YOUR civilisation.

[Grimtooth]

Eh, that would perhaps be the case if the Fenrisians were keeping their culture in the face of Imperial assimilation, but stuff like literacy isn`t as much a Imperial trait as it is a civilisational one. The Fenrisians are not simply different, they are at a civilisational stage that is insanely backward compared to a space-faring one that is the Imperium. Yet the Space Wolves keep this level despite having plasma rifles and tanks. Its like the Ultramarines deploying in the triplex acies.

this is wrong in so many ways... civilisation isn't about reading, it's about acting. The power of storytelling (as the Fenrisians worked) is a superb alternative as long as the civilisation does not come into contact with a people that depends on the written word, which is the only reason the Space Wolves needed to adapt, which they did.

 

civilisation does not necessarily mean YOUR civilisation.

 

Sounds like you are now just taking the King/Lee series of the Space Wolves as canon. With the release of A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns, along with the pending Battle of the Fang, the vision of the Ragnar series Wolves is going to change immensely.

 

Notice how in 10,000yrs Fenrisian culture has not changed? That is paramount to how the Wolves continue to be today, 10,000yrs or not. Russ said how it was to be, in combat, at rest, organization, everything. To this day, Great Hunts continue with the full intention of finding Russ. To this day, Wolf Lords will leave if they fill the current Great Wolf is not following Russ in true form.

 

This isn't a matter of adapt or die. The Wolves know what they are meant to do, it has been remembered time and time again, passed along from saga to saga, and there is no need to change. The enemy has revealed itself in all it's maleficum and it must be banished back to the warp in the bloodiest way possible.

 

Does anyone see the similarity between the Ragnar assault on the asteroid and the VI assault on the Quietude orbital dock? Does anyone see the similarity between Lukas freezing an entire world and the use of the orbital dock as a planetary assault? What about the desire to see Antimon brought into the fold of humanity in Wolf at the Door up until the very end when Bulveye kills the new uncompliant leaders and Logan's rage at the Inquisition's treatment of the IG at the end of Armageddon? 10000yrs of seperation, yet the humanity of the Space Wolves is still the same as well as their ferocity.

 

People need to remember, the Space Wolves believe that despite everything that has happened, the real battle is yet to come. They believe Russ will be back at the Wolf Time. They believe this and live this every day of their lives. That type of belief does not foster change or evolution of battle doctrine. The Wolves when Russ left are the Wolves of today.

[The Emperor's Champion]

(double post....)

[The Emperor's Champion]

I'm not sure if I'm making a post in the right section, but since it's dedicated to HH novel I think it's ok.

 

I've almost finished Prospero Burns (what a slow reader I am <_< ), and I got a feeling that Mr. Abnett introduced a certain change in Space Wolves background. What I mean is that in the book the SW are shown as "space barbarians", or even "tribals", similar to the image of barbarians provided in AD&D handbooks, released in early 90-s.

 

Before the book was released, I thought of SW as of regular marines with thier image developed in a way to instill fear upon their enemies. The latter impression falls in line with the "space vikings" theme. The vikings were a brutal force, that used their frocious image to break their enemies' morale, and thus gain advantage in battle. And this fear tactics suited SW perfectly. In the same time they were regular marines to me in terms of their beliefs and knowledge of the world. They had psykers, techmarines (who study on Mars and should be aware of what things are in reality), and they use all the available technology.

 

The idea of SW double nature was stressed in the book, but with all thier way of life outside the battle being detailed, an impression of primitive barbarians has strongly settled in my mind. They don't trust written texts, they literally live like cave men, wearing pelts and leather masks, sleeping in cave-styled chambers, and they have pretty warped unerstanding of the warp ;) and the world in general.

 

It goes further with the author mentiong and referring to historical nations and cultures, that have little in common with vikings. I'm talking about Rus tribes and Ahmad Ibn Rustah (an arab trader who ventured into modern Russia territories) in particular. While the medieval slav tribes interacted with scandinavian people (the actual vikings) in many different ways, war, slavery and governace being the major ones, the slavs were not the vikings we all know. This extention of SW background really changes some of their old-school image, and retcons the "space viking" image, making them "space barbarians".

 

I can't tell whether it is good or bad, I just wanted to express my thoughts that were 'tormenting' my mind for some time. Perhaps this change makes SW more universal in terms of cultural traits and character development, removing the limitation on names to the scandinavian ones. And it is good news to my fellow SW players in Russia who can finally say that thier armies derived from Russian hystory and culture without making certain historical assumptions and reinterpretation of facts ;)

 

That's all. I just wanted to express my opinion on the book and Mr. Abnett's work, so feel free to comment on this post, and express your own ideas and considerations.

 

Cheers! :)

Honestly, the D&D type Barbarians are basically synonymous with a type of viking warriors.

D&D Barbarians have Rage as their special ability because they are, in fact, berserkers. The term "berserker" itself comes from the Norse warriors called Ber Serks (bear shirts), who were warriors that would work themselves into a relentless battle-frenzy as they went into battle. The Space Wolves have always been considered as somewhat the loyalist counterpart to the World Eaters' Khorne Berzerkers.

The Space Wolves would technically be Ulf Serks(wolf shirts), but that's not really any different other than the pelt type.

 

As for not liking written texts, that's a reflection of vikings having a strong oral tradition passed down by their skalds. The tale of Beowulf, for example, is likely much much older than the first written version of it, with the story having been passed down as skaldic tradition for a long time before anyone thought to write it down.

The Space Wolves have always been among the most superstitious of the First Founding Legions, and particularly paranoid of magic. So perhaps their general mistrust of magic and their superstitious nature combines with their skaldic tradition to make books associated with the enemy in their minds. Afterall, sorcerors and books go together like bread and butter.

 

The Space Wolves have always been far more mystical about things than "ordinary" Chapters. Perhaps it's a side effect of their mistrust and general lack of understanding where psionics and sorcery are concerned, compared to an average Chapter. They believe in numerous wolf spirits and Rune Priests summon storms that reflect their emotional state. It has always been one of those strange things about Techmarines that they manage to somehow find balance between their Chapters' views and what they're taught by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Where the Wolves are concerned, I'm sure the Omnissiah and the Allfather become basically the same and their Space Wolf mysticism is layered on top of the Adeptus Mechanicus' own superstitions, rather than the Adeptus Mechanicus actually clarifying much of anything in their minds.

 

As for living in caves, THAT may be a bit far. I always envisioned the Fang's living areas to be a lot like a viking longhouse, with their main dining hall being like Valhalla.

[Gv0zD]

Honestly, the D&D type Barbarians are basically synonymous with a type of viking warriors.

Yes and no. The handbook I'm referring to displays barbarians as primitive tribal culture (just don't get me wrong here <_< ) with no writing, which they substitute with gestures, oral stories; with shamans being their leaders; with their own understanding of the world particularly, thier understanding of magic); a culture that is not known by civilized world and thus feared by it.

 

I'll go a bit off-topic here. I found this book when I was trying to create my Barbarian character for PnP D&D, and was seeking for more in-depth info. In the beginning I wanted to build a viking-styled character, but with that book I significantly changed my mind, and the comparison with Conan (the written one, of course) suits here perfectly.

 

So, with Prospero Burns being released we got the broadened and extended Space Wolves, not just fierce berserking viking-like warriors, but the self sufficient culture, a barbaric/tribal culture, with all the necessary attributes. The "new" Space Wolves have created the niche for barbaric warriors in 40k (at least that's my own impression), not just space vikings (which IMHO limits the gamers' creativity), and provides us with more rich and deep background.

 

The Space Vikings stereotype provided us with image of fierce berserking loyalist marines with nordic flavor, but still, marines. The Space Barbarians is more of a cultural aspect and it shows us their unique traits and cultural richness.

 

We always compare different chapters with different historical warriors, like Black Templars being the crusading knights, Dark Angels being the classic knightly order, SW being vikings etc. But now I think it's improper to call SW vikings, as they are now a single culture not just warriors with certain flavor, an entire layer or 40k culture, if you will.

 

To me, this change enforcerces creating DIY chapters, i.e. different "tribes", that were parts of the Legion (even replace the word Chapter for Tribe in terms of SW possible successors).

 

Do you follow me, fellas? :)

[tiberium40k]

civilisation isn't about reading, it's about acting.

 

Adaptation=/=civilisation. The level of advancement of a civilisation is often measured by its progress in agriculture, long-distance trade, occupational specialization, and urbanism. Aside from these core elements, civilisation is often marked by any combination of a number of secondary elements, including a developed transportation system, writing, standards of measurement (currency, etc.), contract and tort-based legal systems, characteristic art styles, monumental architecture, mathematics, science, sophisticated metallurgy, politics, and astronomy.

 

The power of storytelling (as the Fenrisians worked) is a superb alternative as long as the civilisation does not come into contact with a people that depends on the written word, which is the only reason the Space Wolves needed to adapt, which they did.

 

Except they didnt, at least not in PB, and they didnt do it on purpose.

 

civilisation does not necessarily mean YOUR civilisation.

 

That would be culture. And last I checked, 2011 earth has no FTL, Titans, Plasma reactors...

[Texpef]

Thing is they have technology its just well hidden afterall they were technically capable of basically rebuilding the body of Hawser for example, that would require a great degree of technical skill and technology something alot claim the Space Wolves do not embrace...

[Ubermensch Commander]

Actually, I probably would have liked more of a duality to the Legion, between the primitive barbarians they show to the galaxy, and the more intelligent, 'cultured' warriors who show that image. Instead, we get Wolves that act like barbarians, talk like barbarians, and think like barbarians, yet we only have the word of a Space Wolf of "trust us, we're actually not like this... now excuse me while I go back to eating raw meat and drinking from a horn, while scorning academia".

 

I had a similar issue with the book. Abnett made such a big effort to have them try and say "No it is all an act! *wink wink nudge nudge*" yet every five seconds he uses descriptives like "feral", "savage", "monstrous" or synonyms thereof, describing them in animalistic terms that it fell flat on its face. For pity's sake he had them lounging and panting like dogs and the boss hanging out in the back like the Alpha wolf in the back of a cave.

 

Also; trying to show that Russ had "compassion" for Magnus while yelling into the face of a guy who "may or may not" be an agent of the Thousand Sons and "may or may not" be a communication device irked the HELL out of me. Sorry, Russ is an angry, bestial dude with a hate-on for psykers. Trying to shoe horn in a scene to show he "really does care" is as bad as trying to show the Space Wolves aren't feral numbnuts while still keeping their feral aspects.

 

It seemed like he wanted to have it both ways and I was NOT sold on the matter.