Fenric Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The Nemesis Daemonhammer is nothing more than a thunder hammer with the Nemesis special rule, making it a Force Weapon instead of a Power Weapon. The REAL benefit is that the Dreadknight will strike at regular initiative with it instead of initiative 1. Personally, I would choose it over a Greatsword, but that is just me. You're losing the chance for a bonus attack anyway, and you don't need re-rolls if you're striking at strength 10. Well depends on what you want to attack with it. If you want an infantry killer the sword is many times better due to reroll misses+wounds. Versus toughness 6 opponents it coems pretty close versus higher damage(sword) versus strike first after the first round of combat(if damage is dealt with the hammer). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Thunder Hammer has the ability to inflict "crew shaken" on a vehicle if it hits, regardless of other effects, whether it penetrates or not. I think it does something to ordinary models as well (Maybe reduce them to Init 1?) so- there is a benefit. And here is the kicker: why would you pay points for something that causes "crew" shaken, when you supposedly already have str.10 and 2D6 armor pen? There are plenty of dread ccw that don't double strenght, suck as both blood talons and the force weapon for B.A libby dread. I'm finding it hard to believe that you really get all of those perks out of a 130 point model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Initially, I too didn't see any reason for the daemonhammer on a DK. But actually, for 10 pts, you do get a significant benefit. The DK has been specifically designed -- in both fluff and rules -- to go up against enemy Monstrous Creatures. Especially ones with invul saves like Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes. Without the hammer, even 5 S10 attacks on the charge are not likely to kill off the target. With a Greatsword, even with all the rerolls, you are also not likely to kill the target. But take the daemon hammer and you can get some bashing in your first turn, then pretty much always have the Initiative advantage going forward. And as we all know, Initiative is THE most important stat in close combat. I actually think the hammer is worth its points, therefore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Wounding T8 on 2+ and possible force weapon kill seems enought to kill just about anything in the first turn. At least every monsterous non-named nid and wraithlord out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Wounding T8 on 2+ and possible force weapon kill seems enought to kill just about anything in the first turn. At least every monsterous non-named nid and wraithlord out there. Many -- most? -- daemonic MCs are immune to Instant Death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 They do plenty else. The Doomfist is the ONLY way to give it a CC weapon that provides the nemesis force weapon functionality (force weapon, daemonbane) without also giving it another bonus (+1 invul from sword, +2 ini from halberd, etc.) Compare it to the other weapons, and it makes perfect sense for it to be str 6, but no sense at all for them to be str 10. And remember also that the model itself has actual fists. Fists (at str6): Cheapest option, has an extra attack. Hammer: Costs more, but has the higher strength to really smash vehicles, and the thunderhammer traits. Sword: Most expensive, but great all around due to re-rolls. Fists (at str10): Still cheapest, still extra attack, but now the best option overall, including better than the really expensive sword. Why would they have the best weapon option be the default, and make the other two choices pointless? The logic here is obvious. If you play with the doomfists giving you str, realize that you are giving yourself the most advantageous interpretation even though it isn't the most logical. This. Same thoughts I'm having, although I wouldn't be surprised if GW FAQ'ed them to be S10 nonetheless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I still reckon the sword is very useful, due to the rerolls, I've lost count of the amount of times I've failed to hit things, even just needing 3+, rerolls are pure awesomesauce :D Plus the sword looks amazing :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Wounding T8 on 2+ and possible force weapon kill seems enought to kill just about anything in the first turn. At least every monsterous non-named nid and wraithlord out there. Many -- most? -- daemonic MCs are immune to Instant Death. You reckon the Dreadknight will beat a Blood Thirster anyway? Or The Slaanesh one. Which are the only ones I've ever seen, and extremely rarely at that. Nid MC's have no chance, and are by far the most common ones. Talos is screwed too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Don't forget Deamonbane, psychers and deamons that fail that test are gone regardless of EW. Not guaranteed with most being LD9-10, but keep making him roll dice an he is bound to fail eventually (saves or leadership). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 You reckon the Dreadknight will beat a Blood Thirster anyway? Not the most likely outcome, no. ;) But the hammer gives it a better chance than with plain doomfists exactly because of the initiative issue. Niether the plain doomfists nor even the greatsword are as good because the BT will still go first in the 2nd round of combat. The hammer will give you more attacks at the enemy in these cases than any other option. Whether that's worth 10 pts to you or not is up to you. :whoops: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227146-doom-fists/page/2/#findComment-2721668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.