cac1389 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 played a game yesterday and found out its not a nemesis sword, so no 2+2++, and only one force weapon a turn. whats your thoughts on this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 There's really nothing to discuss. Its not a nemesis force sword and as such doesnt follow the rules for nemesis force swords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTAG Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 A 2++ in close combat is somewhat ludicrous. That being said, I wish it had some rules that made it more killy. Against things other than Daemons I mean. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Daemons and psykers. Isn't it master crafted as well? Even a master crafted force sword is nothing to sneeze at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cac1389 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 does eternal warrior stop force weapons, cause my draigo got gibbed by mephisttons sword? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yes- the Instant Death ability of Force Weapons does not work on a creature with Eternal Warrior- since they are immune to Instant Death. So, Draigo can "instagib" Mephiston- but not vice versa. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 does eternal warrior stop force weapons, cause my draigo got gibbed by mephisttons sword? Yes it does stop force weapons. Ultimately Draigo for all his supreme grand masterness is not that amazing in combat, he'll always be beaten by things like Sanguinor or other close combat HQs. You're paying for Grand Strategy and Scoring Paladins. Obviously against daemons / psykers he's a bit better. Although what's really great is how the Titan Sword has daemon bane yet daemon bane says it only works with nemesis weapons. Thanks GW for a rule which doesn't work. ~Gil :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I figure that, like with the Dreadknight being able to buy an teleporter that normally only works on an Interceptor, it's a specific exception, to the general rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Imho he's a less killy 'super HQ' with some force organisation/multiplication shennanigans in return. I don't like him personally because I'm not a fan of paladins. For those people that do, he's probably quite good. (Although even in a paladin heavy list I'd probably still go for a normal GM and try to grand strategize them into scoring on objective missions) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cac1389 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 so then, so far out of 6 games using him, hes died 4 of them discounting the one to mephiston :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 He's got a pretty nice statline for a marine character. WS 7 is almost as high as it gets for Marines (only The Sanguinor and Castellan Crowe have it higher). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I'm not understanding how Driago isn't a combat monster? Str 5, 6 with hammerhand and 10 against psykers and daemons, force weapon, 2+/3++, 4 attacks, eternal warrior. He should smash Mephiston. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Don't regular force weapons remove models from play, rather than causing instan death? In which case it would work on Draigo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I'm not understanding how Driago isn't a combat monster? Str 5, 6 with hammerhand and 10 against psykers and daemons, force weapon, 2+/3++, 4 attacks, eternal warrior. He should smash Mephiston. Yes he beats mephiston one on one but mephiston beats him in general (Purely in terms of combat anyway). Mephiston has the same number of attacks, also has a force weapon, same was, higher ini and higher strenght (mephiston needs to pass a psychic test, draigo needs to fight a psyker or daemon), more toughness, more wounds, greater speed, a debuff and the ability to sweeping advance. Draigo has his advantages too (stormshield, eternal warrior, IC) but they dont weigh up. Now, outside of combat, Draigo has force organisation altering power and grand strategy. Which is very good (if you like paladins). But in combat he's not a monster. Good yes, but not a monster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Don't regular force weapons remove models from play, rather than causing instan death? In which case it would work on Draigo. They used to- but in 5E I think they changed it to plain "inflicts instant death" (on successful psychic test) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Yep. Force Weapons cause Instant Death when the psychic test is passed. On that note, Skarn is right. Draigo is slightly more likely to be tearing Mephiston a new cuss hole rather than the other way around. Luck must have been against you cac1389. Draigo should be a good match for other 250-275pt marine models, particularly Calgar (with his TDA) and Grimnar. The Sanguinor likely wins, if only due to all those re-rolls but it wouldn't be a completely one-sided encounter. Only Abaddon really takes the biscuit due to the plethora of extra attacks and re-rolls. But then all Abaddon really counts for is an expensive, single-model cc-killing machine, who unlike Draigo doesn't provide any real boosts to his allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 So you are saying Driago beats Mephy 1vs1, but he isn't a combat monster and Mephy is? I get that Mephy has better mook killing potential, but he's vulnerable to melta and plasma drive bys and especially hidden powerfists. None of these worry Driago. Driago has also join units too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cac1389 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 nah not bad luck, just not knowing the rules properly and getting gibbed by mephi's force weapon. Another question does the brotherhood banner give any affects to independant characters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 tooled up paladin squad led by draigo is nothing to sneeze at (especially since at range if they're stuck foot-slogging (transport blew up, DS failed, no points for a transport. eternal warrior, 4 wounds, and a 3++ save help against melta/lascannon). Sure, he may not be super killy, but he's killy enough, especially when he is where he is meant to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I'm not understanding how Driago isn't a combat monster? Str 5, 6 with hammerhand and 10 against psykers and daemons, force weapon, 2+/3++, 4 attacks, eternal warrior. He should smash Mephiston. Yes he beats mephiston one on one but mephiston beats him in general (Purely in terms of combat anyway). Mephiston has the same number of attacks, also has a force weapon, same was, higher ini and higher strenght (mephiston needs to pass a psychic test, draigo needs to fight a psyker or daemon), more toughness, more wounds, greater speed, a debuff and the ability to sweeping advance. Draigo has his advantages too (stormshield, eternal warrior, IC) but they dont weigh up. Now, outside of combat, Draigo has force organisation altering power and grand strategy. Which is very good (if you like paladins). But in combat he's not a monster. Good yes, but not a monster. mephiston has 5 wounds? i did not know that. couldve swore he had 4, same as draigo. and mephiston needs to pass a psychic test for str 10, while draigo just happens to be striking at s10 (mephistons a psyker isn't he?). his force weapon doesn't count for anything, being that draigo is an EW. and does draigo have psyk-out grenades? if so, mephiston is no longer a higher I. I'll give you greater speed and the debuff bit. i think our army is geared towards shuting down psykers like him though. dont even have to worry about getting through an inv save ;) and force weapons cause ID, as explained in the brb. the 3rd edition wording for force weapons was removed models from play, which was a loop hole we had going for us under the new rules until this codex came out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 the banner states that the unit automatically passes its test for NFW inflicting ID. the question is does the IC count as part of that unit. I'd say yes, despite them having to test seperately normally. i think if it didn't affect IC, it would mention it just like brotherhood of psykers does. they get the extra attack dont they? so why would 1 part affect them but not the other? until i see an FAQ, ill play it as such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 mephiston has 5 wounds? i did not know that. couldve swore he had 4, same as draigo. and mephiston needs to pass a psychic test for str 10, while draigo just happens to be striking at s10 (mephistons a psyker isn't he?). his force weapon doesn't count for anything, being that draigo is an EW. and does draigo have psyk-out grenades? if so, mephiston is no longer a higher I. I'll give you greater speed and the debuff bit. i think our army is geared towards shuting down psykers like him though. dont even have to worry about getting through an inv save ;) As I said. Draigo beats Mephiston one on one. Nowhere in my post did I disagree with that, in fact I lead with that very statement. My point was that he doesnt beat him overall in general applicability. Yes draigo is practically a hard counter for Mephiston, specifically. Mephiston however is more dangerous than Draigo to most units (For the long list of advantages he has in combat). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 @cac1389: The Force Weapon psychic power attack only causes instant death. Draigo has the 'Eternal Warrior' special rule that makes him immune to instant death. Unless Draigo was gibbed by the multitude of attacks instead I dunno what we're missing. Instead it sounds like you were dupped. Even @ S10, Mephiston cannot insta-gib Draigo. In answer to you question, as long as the Independent Character is in the same unit as the Banner Bearer then they'll gain an extra attack. If that Independent Character has any kind of force weapon then they will also benefit from automatically passing their test to use it. @KnowThyEnemy: Mephiston may still attack at his own Initiative if he gets the charge. Quite likely with the speed he packs. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 the 3rd edition wording for force weapons was removed models from play, which was a loop hole we had going for us under the new rules until this codex came out. But now with daemonbane, any daemon or psyker that *just takes a wound* from an NFW or the titan sword takes a LD test at the end of the assault. If they fail, they are "removed as a casualty", bypassing EW. While it doesn't help against Marneus Calgar, it does let GKs insta-gib daemons and psykers like they should. Combine with psychotroke grenades for hilarity if you roll a 4 (enemy is LD 2 for the rest of the phase). In fact, it lets ALL gks gib them, except Crowe... stupid daemon sword. Not reliable, but better than nothing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 the Titan Sword seems to rock on wraithguard led by a warlock too! i see your T6 and raise you S10!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227178-the-titan-sword/#findComment-2721378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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