teemoki Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Hiya guys! Thanks again for holding my hand on my path towards getting into 40k and more specifically getting better and learning strategies with BA. Really appreciate it :) I have a new thing I am interested in trying to figure out... As you guys who have seen my lists in the army list section I am trying for a counter CC mech list. Right now it consists of something roughly like this: HQ Terminator Assault Squad (or DCompany) Land Raider Crusader 1 Rhino with Tacical + ML 2-3 RBS with RAS + Melta 2 Baals 1 squad of attack MM Bikes 2 Vindicators Everytime I plan on putting in a new CC oriented fast moving assault unit it gets shot down or put into the slot of having to DoA. Is it not viable to keep (JP/wings) fast moving CC units behind the vehicles and thus out of LOS? I am thinking of running a Sanguinary Guard unit + Dante over 1 RB and some other point fixing. I don't plan on DS'ing them but just running behind my vehicles (Land Raider). This way they are most likely assured a turn 2 assault. (12" move with vehicles, 12" jump over vehicles, 6" assault) I just don't like the idea of DS'ing in something that cant assault the turn it comes in. Because when not many things are DSing in (non-doa list like mine) it just puts all my stuff into rapid fire range...I don't like that :| If I was planning on doing DoA my unit on foot with JPs I would only really conisder it if they were VV that could assault turn of coming in.. What do you guys think? Is it really not viable to keep units behind a LR or AV wall? Why/why not? How would DoA work with a mech list when the point of a mech list is to saturate armor and make infantry weapons useless. If you DoA wit something other than VV then thats counter productive I think...thus I think it's best to keep them behind the AV so they still can't be shot at and are more reliable since their already on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLNH Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Using your vehicles as cover seems like a good idea to me, especially if you have JPs. If the enemy gets to close, you could leap right over your vehicular fire shield and be in assault range. VV are excellent, but since you already have three Fast Attack, you might consider a Techmarine w/Servo-harnes and maybe some repair servitors, who could hide behind your 7+ tanks and repair damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Just avoid the temptation to bunch your models up to get out of LOS. If you're a little bit out or your opponent manages to move into a better position or explode one of the tanks you're hiding behind, one pie plate can put a real crimp in your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I've used the idea of jump units hiding behind tanks for a long time (recently stopped due to wanting to try tank free armies). Just make sure the tanks are scarier than the marines. Like Vindicators and Land Raider Redeemers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallboy Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Back in my Provost Marine days the Dev Squad always took a rhino as a transport choice, that just happened to be parked in front of them on turn 1, then conveniently sped off to do something far more important in time for the Dev’s to start shooting (well apart from the Plasma Cannon that just blew up a lot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemoki Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Ok cool! So people have tried it and it seems with some success huh? Everyone kept telling me "those better be deepstriking!" before >_< I got scared of wanting to talk about keeping models behind vehicles for counter assault and sometimes just assaulting things. I'm planning to either do some Assault Marines or Sanguinary Guard. Maybe Guard so my army looks different ;) I just read Snorris post on use of Sang Guard and it was actually what spawned the thought of this post :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybnick Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I agree with everyone else that vehicle screens make a good way to move your jump packs across the board relatively safely, the 6 Pred list is pretty good for this. I'd even consider leaving the sponsons off the pred to A ) keep the price down and B ) prevent you from blocking your on spownsons LoS with your other tanks. Add a Priest and Libby in with Unleashed Rage and Shield of Sanguinius with your jump packers and you have a hard hitting squad as well as some insurance for your tanks in case they don't get a native cover save from terrain. In regards to Dante starting on the board I'm not such a huge fan of that idea. I've started him on the board a few times and I usually regret the decision. His no scatter deepstrike is too nice a bonus to give up and with I6 and hit and run often times he and his scquad will live through the enemy's charge next turn to hit and run out somewhere useful in my next turn. I like running him with a full 10 man Assault Marine squad with either 2x melta or flamer, a Fist and a Priest w/ power weapon. This squad does mean nasty things to tanks, or infantry depending on the special weapon you give them. I've dropped in on a 30 boy ork squad before and with flamers/bolt pistols killed 25 of the boys in one fell swoop, which caused the rest of the squad to run away. Likewise this squad with meltas has slagged a whole slew of vehicles for me, rarely do they fail to detroy what they target on the drop and considering I always get to place them facing rear armor they are guaranteed a glance on anything AV10 rear armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfinger Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The problem with this "hybrid" approach is target priority, to take a sufficient number of troops you will not have enough point left to buy enough vehicles to tp prevent them getting popped quicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The problem with this "hybrid" approach is target priority, to take a sufficient number of troops you will not have enough point left to buy enough vehicles to tp prevent them getting popped quicker This was the problem I was having with this build. Its fun to play though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemoki Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Ahhh, so would you say then that going hybrid list is more suited for higher point games where i could field that stuff? And at lower than 2k maybe going 1 route or the other would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfinger Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Not necessarily, the point discrepancy of BA vehicles costing more than other SM chapters is always going to be a problem, no mater the point level you are still paying more per vehicle than other chapters, that could change at 2.5k, but I usually dont play games at that point level, so not much experience in writing those lists...but at 2k I still dont feel that hybrid is effective. Ashton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybnick Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Going one route or the other (mech or DoA for example) will almost always be more competitive since your focusing your force more clearly on that one goal. Hybrid lists are definitely not bad, and are certainly a lot of fun to play but the stereotypical WAAC (win at all costs) tournament players will likely see a way to exploit that half of your army wants to work one way and the other half a different way. As far as a point level to be able to do a good hybrid list I'd say 1750 and above would give you enough points to do something worthwhile with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 and pure mech has its weaknesses as does pure doa and infantry lists. id say a good mix does better(least in my mind) specialisation can leave you open to glaring weaknesses. specially with so much melta and template armys. where as with mixed you can sent mech at the emplate threats or infantry at melta threats. Hiding behind tanks is a good statagy if you can make it work. i wouldnt have it assomething you can rely on in every game as opponents army etc can make it better to use different tactics depending on the army your facing. for instance if your facing guard you may want to give some space between you tanks and your infantry incase ordinace scatters from one onto the other. and you mentioned dante deepstrike, if i was running dante i would probably nearly always deepstrike him. pinpoint deepstrike him + his squad + any attached characters, and dante comes with an bs 5 inferno pistol, pinpoint deepstriking.... goodbye armour...specially with a sanguard with a few infernus/hounour guard with melta/ras with melta. great for pesky armour with weak rear armour :) regardless with ba i would try to keep most of your army together. if you start spliting it up and sending it out then you get taken down by the weakness of being normal marines and dieing as a result. the only times ive succeded with splitting my arys up has been to send tnks at anti infantry things, and my infantry at anti tank stuff. that either forces them to redeploy or wastes the opponents strengths. well occasionally :eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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