Chaos losing it's allure - The day the fluff died

[spafe]

What units don't feel right? Simple, ANY unit that has a mark.

 

A band of marines have followed their sargent since the assult on terra (and before) through thick and thin, serving their primarch, and more importantly, their god. Maybe they've sold themselves to slanesh, murdering a hundred virgins, then gathering an offering of soul stones from the eldar to place upon the alter of their dark prince. Maybe they've charged an ork horde, and spilt untold amounts of blood, giving the ork (and their own) skulls as offerings for the skull throne. Spent 10,000 years spreading blight and dieseas through the imperuim, poisoning crops from agri worlds to lead to sector wide famine for nurgle. Or chased artifacts, uncovered great and powerful spells, then been willing players in the great game since they turned from the corpse god. All of these have earnt their gods blessing, led to favoured attention towards their aspiring champion, who may one day command a great warhost himself. OH but wait, brother bill 'bought the farm' while exiting their rhino, dropped a picture on a stick and their patron was soo insulted by this he withdrew his blessings imediatly, all past deeds forgotten.

 

This is my main problem with the dex, how badly implimented it is.

 

Disclaimer, sorry for bad spelling, typing at work on the sly

[DarkVen]

There's problem with this dex: not many options. I'd like to play my Chaos lord with 2+ and 4+ inv without Mark of Tzeentch and Termi-armor. I's like to see troops-raptors in my Night lords army, cost them 20 points with Hit and run and something interesting, that reduce enemy's Ld in cc. I really wanna officially jet-bikes, i agree even 0-1 option. More transports, more LR-variants... and cool chaos-chosen, of course.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Another thread of this?

 

Is this one of those situations like "Chaos player group therapy"? Yes the codex sucks, we've all seen and felt the giant pain in our collective asses that this is. Can we reach "acceptance" and move on while waiting for the new 'dex?

 

Please?

[AoC]

Another thread of this?

 

Is this one of those situations like "Chaos player group therapy"? Yes the codex sucks, we've all seen and felt the giant pain in our collective asses that this is. Can we reach "acceptance" and move on while waiting for the new 'dex?

 

Please?

No, i can tolerate it, but i'll never accept it as proper codex.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Is this one of those situations like "Chaos player group therapy"? Yes the codex sucks, we've all seen and felt the giant pain in our collective asses that this is. Can we reach "acceptance" and move on while waiting for the new 'dex?

Actually it's a thread on "How can I make my army fluffier and more fun to play".

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Is it really? Cos it seems like another thread full of people fed up with the Codex. We have established that it's awful a long time ago.

 

I'm of the opinion now that we have done the "contact GW" campaign, we have established how to use this Dex as fun (with minimal possibilities), we have looked at using loyalist Dex as alternatives and "counts as" (which I'm totally opposed to) and we have looked at what we'd want in the next one.

 

At this stage, i'm thinking that we either just stick to the painting side of the hobby, play on regardless, or just use the current dex to prop up a wobbly table while we wait for a replacement. There are some fantastic models coming out for conversion and parts use possibilities so I'm suggesting we focus on that for a while.

 

These rant threads (and i'm sorry if i've read it wrong, but that's how it seems to me) are more tiresome than power gamers abusing everyone who wants to use anything except 2DPs, Oblits, PM/Zerkers and nothing else.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

These rant threads (and i'm sorry if i've read it wrong, but that's how it seems to me)

If you'd read what I say in the OP, you'd realise that it isn't a rant at all. My problem isn't the Codex, rather the inability to create some sort of exciting army to play. I'm looking to break the idea of "A Chaos army is X, Y and Z units", rather "My army behaves like X because of Y and therefore has a lot of unit Z"

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

I do understand what you intended, but it seems to me (and I accept I could be wrong) that the follow up posts became rants. The army is what you make it. I never play without a Dread, even though the majority on here think I'm mad to do so. It's only gone mad on me a couple of times and I'm more than happy to keep doing so.

I'm not pleased with this Codex, but I don't let it hold me back, I try in spite of it to make it work with different builds. I've got bikes that I try to make work occasionally, still working on it. Just because certain items are weaker than others, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't use it. Try it, you may break it and find something that many before you haven't. Try it again, or tweak it, keep trying, and prove it right, then share it.

On that, I think the Dreadnaught is underrated by both many CSM players AND opponents. People don't use it because it's seen as "high risk", so the opponents don't come near it cos they just try to wait till it turns on it's own. I played against IG several times recently (all with seasoned vets behind the dice) and all of them ignored it, focusing more on my LR/Zerkers and CSMs in Rhinos. It wasn't untill it tore through it's third tank on the same flank that he decided to blow it up at range with his Basilisk in the 4th turn. The statisticians among you will throw all the probability laws in the book at me, but I still maintain that while most keep using this as an excuse to leave the Dread on a shelf, I'll keep making it work for me.

Everything in this book works, I'm sure of it, although I have yet to prove it. It's just not as clear or as obvious as to the varying builds as other codecies.

[the jeske]

Just because certain items are weaker than others, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't use it.

you should take your list and play a copy of it with the SW dex then for a month [or do regular weekend testing] and then say that you feel the same .

 

I played NM for 2 years , only because they were wee bit different in game play . With each dex the list got weaker and weaker , in the end bordering on unplayable [because playing with "lets hope my opponent doesnt know what NM can do" is that for me] . Then [as we do each time ] we did testing for the new GK dex . I picked the testing of the crow puri build for the lols [and because I was lazy and didnt want to remodel old metal GK] . Words cant describe what a NM player feels when playing with cheap units[storm bolters build in , that I could make str 5. 2 hvies inside a single squad for half the price of a blast master] , with viable support , viable transports [yes I know and 50+str 7 shots in 1750 pts . that does help too]. And that was just a gold fish list [spamed stuff , no optimisation etc] . After tweeking we ended up with more then 1 choice per slot [yes even a puri build could run a normal termis squad and it would be ok] that was viable , offten changing how the list played .

Mind blowing expiriance I rarly have doing wargames[but then again I did play NM a lot ] .

Most of the time I even forgot I have force weapons or psychic powers the GK had . the list had identical game play in the sense of how stuff should be used , but one list had more of everything . more options , both for gear and tactical .

But you know what is the worse thing about it ? that the puri build isnt even the top tier stuff you can make with GK[and before someone asks . no I dont find GK OP ] .

Sure I could be blind and go back to playing NM , but why should I . the NM build is crap not just over all , but now also in its niche of moving meq army with multi shot weapons . It is not the case of being a bit worse or old , it is the case of being plain bad.

 

But as I said before . take the same number of GH as you take zerkers/pms/csm[what ever you use] take a TWC lord instead of a DP/lord or take a RP instead a sorc . Then come back and say there is no reason to not play chaos with the chaos dex or not be pissed about how bad it is .

 

Right now the csm is like the pre FAQ DA dex [because the FAQ did give the DA a viable DW army with the changes to cyclons/SS and Landspeeders].